Yeast starter(s) necessary?

[jspain3]

I'm doing a 12 gallon batch that will be split into two (hopefully) 6 gallon fermentations. I plan to ferment each with a different yeast. The OG should be 1.065 and I have a Wyeast smack pack and a White Labs vial for the job.



Will this be sufficient or would you recommend a yeast starter? I've never done one but I have a 2000ml flask and a DIY stir plate. Should I do one on the stir plate and the other in a makeshift vessel un-stirred? What would you guys do?

Edit: I do have some spare growlers that could maybe work.

 

[kombat]

Sounds like a great opportunity to finally try out that flask and stir plate!

Yes, I would definitely make starters for both yeasts. Check Mr. Malty for precise sizes. I'd do the White Labs vial in the flask on the stir plate (since it will need more growth), and the Wyeast smack-pack in a growler that you swirl every time you walk past it. Make sure everything is thoroughly sanitized, cover the top of each with some sanitized foil to allow some air exchange but to keep nasties from floating in.

 

[Gavin C]

+2

starters for both

Stagger making them by a day and you'll be able to use a stir plate on both.

 

[jspain3]

Sounds like a great opportunity to finally try out that flask and stir plate!



Yes, I would definitely make starters for both yeasts. Check Mr. Malty for precise sizes. I'd do the White Labs vial in the flask on the stir plate (since it will need more growth), and the Wyeast smack-pack in a growler that you swirl every time you walk past it. Make sure everything is thoroughly sanitized, cover the top of each with some sanitized file to allow some air exchange but to keep nasties from floating in.

Great, thanks for the advice! I'm excited about using the stir plate for the first time. I'll probably just double the starter wort recipe and split it between the two vessels, rather than creating two separate boils.

 

[Gavin C]

You could probably do 1 stepped starter in the 2L flask that would get to your target pitch rate. That is probably a better idea than what I said before.

Best of luck with the brew

 

[jspain3]

I'm also planning on crashing and decanting the starters unless someone can make a compelling argument against that. Seems pretty easy to do.

 

[jspain3]

...and done! These yeasts should be ready by Monday.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1441333218.701548.jpg

 

[jspain3]

I checked them this morning and the growler foamed over as soon as I swirled it. I took the flask off the stir plate and it immediately foamed up, but not over. I switched the two as I have a second stir bar in the growler.

 

[Warthaug]

In the future, a single drop of fermcap-s will prevent foam-overs.

In a shameless self-plug, a long while ago I made a video on a cheap way of doing a yeast starter if you lack a stir plate (or sufficient stir-plates for multiple yeasts):

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UGJ_b-MfbE[/ame]

B

 

[jspain3]

I'll have to try the fermcap next time. Every batch I've brewed so far, I've tried something new in an effort to add to my brewing knowledge/experience. This go around, it's a double batch and yeast starters.

BTW, it looked creamy smooth this morning with a nice foam head on it, but now it looks chunky and un-homogenized, like old milk in coffee. Is that normal?

edit: Nevermind, looks like the chunky effect has more to do with how flocculent the yeast strain is. 1968 is known for that and I'm assuming WLP002 is similar.

 

[stratslinger]

...and done! These yeasts should be ready by Monday.

In the future, try to keep in mind that a yeast starter will typically propagate fully (chew through all the available sugars in the starter) in 24-48 hours. Anything more than that, and the yeast will reproduce and get you around the cell count you want, then likely go dormant for a couple days, instead of being active and ready to go as soon as pitched.

 

[jspain3]

In the future, try to keep in mind that a yeast starter will typically propagate fully (chew through all the available sugars in the starter) in 24-48 hours. Anything more than that, and the yeast will reproduce and get you around the cell count you want, then likely go dormant for a couple days, instead of being active and ready to go as soon as pitched.

I kept reading 3 days prior was a good time to start. I'll probably let them go until tomorrow morning (36 hours) and then crash them until brew day. I'll decant them Monday morning so they're ready to go after brewing is finished.

 

[RmikeVT]

I have a similar set-up as you: a stir plate, 2000mL flask and I do 11ish gallon batches split into 2 fermenters. Here is what I do with good results:

1) Stagger my starters if I NEED two separate liquid yeast to pitch, so basically start my starters 5-6 days ahead of time, crash cool the first one for 24 hours, decant and put yeast into sanitized 1/2 pint mason jar and get another starter going. This is my least favorite method.

2) Use a liquid yeast and a dry yeast, that way I only need to make one starter for the liquid yeast.

3) Same liquid for both and I just step up my starter. Really only need 3-4 days ahead for this.

4) Dry for both.

 

[jspain3]

I'm kind of alternating the two on the stir plate for now. The head in the flask is pretty much gone, so I pulled it off since the growler has a significant head still and wasn't on the stir plate overnight. Both have considerable yeast layers at the bottom when not stirring. For a while it prevented me from finding the growler's stir bar because the yeast were holding it in place.

The flask still had some tiny bubbles (assuming CO2) floating up after removing from the stir plate. I assume it's still chugging a little bit. I may wait until tomorrow morning to start crashing them or if I'm impatient, do it later tonight since that would be 24 hours of stirring/agitation.

Is there a reason to decant and move to a sanitized mason jar rather than waiting (an extra day) until brew day to decant and pour directly into the fermenter? I'm cool either way, because my wife has a billion mason jars of all sizes.

 

[christyle]

In the future, try to keep in mind that a yeast starter will typically propagate fully (chew through all the available sugars in the starter) in 24-48 hours. Anything more than that, and the yeast will reproduce and get you around the cell count you want, then likely go dormant for a couple days, instead of being active and ready to go as soon as pitched.

I used to subscribe to the same theory, but I got chastised for recommending that to someone. I now do mine well ahead of time, cold crash, decant and pitch the slurry with no change at all. I just take the yeast out and let it rise to room temp while I brew. The yeast will wake right back up when you get them into the new wort, not like a dry yeast where you have to raise zombie yeast from the dead. :cross:

Is there a reason to decant and move to a sanitized mason jar rather than waiting (an extra day) until brew day to decant and pour directly into the fermenter? I'm cool either way, because my wife has a billion mason jars of all sizes.

The moving jars was because he only had one stirring setup. You have the growler starter, so you don't need to worry.

Pitching with the spent/fermented wort isn't really a big deal if you don't have enough time to cold crash and decant, but it will contribute some flavors from the starter (more noticeable in lighter beers).

 

[Gavin C]

I now do mine well ahead of time, cold crash, decant and pitch the slurry

I do the same

Big starter on Monday for a weekend brew in my usual way. 48 hours on the stir plate. Cool and decant of the starter beer and pitch just the slurry. Works great no issues whatsoever.

It is a very simple and reproducible process each time.

 

[Warthaug]

As you've now seen, several yeasts form large flocks. Scared the crap out of me the first time I saw it too - thought I had infected it somehow.

Bryan

 

[bumstigedy]

I always decant most of the starter wort on brew day and then taste it. Anyone else do that?

 

[funnelweb]

I always decant most of the starter wort on brew day and then taste it. Anyone else do that?

I havn't tried that. What's the "normal" taste like? Anyway to descripe it?

 

[jspain3]

I always decant most of the starter wort on brew day and then taste it. Anyone else do that?

I plan to at least taste it. Why not? Curious as to how it'll taste.

 

[bumstigedy]

Sometimes mostly off flavors due to fermenting warm. Sometimes actually really good. Tasted a London ESB starter on Friday and it was quite good. Main reason I taste is to make sure the starter isn't contaminated before pitching. Can also tell if the yeast didn't do anything if it tastes too sweet.