Yeast recommendation for my next batch

[Verac]

Hello all,

Batch number 2 is bottled and I definitely made some mistakes and learned some good lessons with that batch.

That said, I'm prepping for batch number 3 which will go into my family's home-made Christmas baskets that we give out as gifts. I'm moving from 1 gallon batches to my first 5 gallon in a plastic carboy I bought off a friend.

So, my most pressing question is what kind of yeast I should use.

For the last batch I did, it was a gallon and I used the pre-packaged yeast that came in my kit that I got as a gift. I contacted them and they said the yeast was “Fruity Ale Yeast” Fermentis Safale S-04 - Saccharomyces. The yeast on my last batch was pretty slow. My kit calls for 10 days to ferment, but I waited like 20 days or so and things seemed to stop at around 1.02.

Now my basement stays about 70 degrees on the money. I have a new AC unit so I'm not sure how the temp is going to be as we get into October through November. I noticed that the yeast I used previously wanted a bit cooler temperature, so I'm not sure if the 70 degrees stunted the yeast growth or it was something else.

So, given that following criteria what kind of yeast do you all recommend?
1. I'm still new to homebrewing
2. My basement stays at 70F currently
3. I plan on priming after primary and adding extra sugar so that I can pasteurize and have carbonated and semi-sweet cider.

Another semi non-related question, I made a sugar priming liquid for my carbonation and added it to my secondary carboy. There was still a lot of lees on the bottom and I realized that I had to stir which made the lees kick back up. How do you combat this? I figured I could rack to a bucket for bottling, but aren't you supposed to try to limit expose to oxygen at this point?

Also, some things I learned:
I used frozen juice from a local orchard (unpasteurized no sulfates). In retrospect, I suppose I should have used camden tablets to kill anything in it before I pitched, at least I think?
I racked out of primary before taking a hydrometer reading.... it was like day 15 and the instructions said to ferment for 10 days. After getting it into the secondary container, I took a reading and was shocked that it was 1.02. I deiced I will buy a wine thief (I think that will make reading much easier) and taking them more often to gauge progress. As a result of racking early, it seemed to slow fermentation down significantly.

Anywho, if you made it this far, thanks for reading!

 

[madscientist451]

If you liked the way the cider turned out, use the same yeast, if you didn't like it, try to decide what the faults were and go from there. If it "ain't broke" don't try to fix it!
If you wan't to try other yeast strains, stay with 1 gallon batches, some yeasts may produce a cider that doesn't suit your taste.
Some people say using Campden is necessary, some say its optional. I go both ways, sometimes I let the wild yeast kick off for a few days and then add the commercial yeast. I usually do at least one wild ferment cider per season.

 

[Yooper]

As far as priming, most people would rack to a bottling bucket with the priming solution, and then bottle from there. That would ensure even mixing of the priming solution, and get the cider off of the lees.

 

[Verac]

As far as priming, most people would rack to a bottling bucket with the priming solution, and then bottle from there. That would ensure even mixing of the priming solution, and get the cider off of the lees.

Just so I'm clear, so you would rack out of a carboy into a bucket (I think I have some that have a spout on it) and then you bottle out of that bucket? It seems that would introduce more oxygen. Is that not a concern if you bottle them quickly enough?

 

[CKuhns]

Nope not a huge concern if done with some care and relatively quick. No splashing and try to keep ypur racking hose end under the liquid in ypur bucket once it starts to fill.

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep. all of the above.

I am surprised that you were concerned with the results with SO4. It is probably worth another go as SO4 is currently my go-to yeast as it tends to finish a bit above 1.000 and so the cider has some residual sweetness. My current batch was a bit short on carbonation so I sacrificed a bottle, de-gassed it and measured the SG... it was 1.003 after six weeks so that is where it had finished even though I was expecting 1.002. You say that your ferment finished at 1.02.. do you mean 1.002 because that sounds about right for SO4.

My simple process is to do 1 gallon in a bucket.with campden and pectinase. After a day, the yeast is added and left covered with a towel while turbulent primary fermentation takes place. When this settles (usually in a week or so and around 1.020 to 1.030) I transfer to a carboy under airlock and let secondary fermentation take place for as long as I like. I ferment in my cool store at around 18C (64F) or below.

The idea of the bucket is to start with more than you will transfer to secondary so you fill the secondary without any airspace (i.e. leaving the last 1/2 inch or so of primary behind with all the lees).

After a month or so, the SG should be down to 1.002 -1.004 and once it has stabilised at that level, you can bottle or if you want carbonation add sugar to bring it up an extra 0004 to 0.006 then bottle. This will give you around 2 to 2.5 volumes of CO2, which is just about right.

If you want to go sweeter, then bottling around 1.009 or 1.010 then pasteurising at 1.005 or so will give you a slightly sweet carbonated cider. BUT, beware that pasteurising at too high a temperature or letting the carbonation get too high before pasteurising can result in high pressure in the bottles. See Andrew Lea's Carbonation Table (http://www.cider.org.uk/carbonation_table.xls) which shows the pressure generated at different temperatures and different levels of carbonation. Generally around 65C (149F) for 10 minutes or so will do the job.

Have fun!

 

[Verac]

Yep. all of the above.

I am surprised that you were concerned with the results with SO4. It is probably worth another go as SO4 is currently my go-to yeast as it tends to finish a bit above 1.000 and so the cider has some residual sweetness. My current batch was a bit short on carbonation so I sacrificed a bottle, de-gassed it and measured the SG... it was 1.003 after six weeks so that is where it had finished even though I was expecting 1.002. You say that your ferment finished at 1.02.. do you mean 1.002 because that sounds about right for SO4.

My simple process is to do 1 gallon in a bucket.with campden and pectinase. After a day, the yeast is added and left covered with a towel while turbulent primary fermentation takes place. When this settles (usually in a week or so and around 1.020 to 1.030) I transfer to a carboy under airlock and let secondary fermentation take place for as long as I like. I ferment in my cool store at around 18C (64F) or below.

The idea of the bucket is to start with more than you will transfer to secondary so you fill the secondary without any airspace (i.e. leaving the last 1/2 inch or so of primary behind with all the lees).

After a month or so, the SG should be down to 1.002 -1.004 and once it has stabilised at that level, you can bottle or if you want carbonation add sugar to bring it up an extra 0004 to 0.006 then bottle. This will give you around 2 to 2.5 volumes of CO2, which is just about right.

If you want to go sweeter, then bottling around 1.009 or 1.010 then pasteurising at 1.005 or so will give you a slightly sweet carbonated cider. BUT, beware that pasteurising at too high a temperature or letting the carbonation get too high before pasteurising can result in high pressure in the bottles. See Andrew Lea's Carbonation Table (http://www.cider.org.uk/carbonation_table.xls) which shows the pressure generated at different temperatures and different levels of carbonation. Generally around 65C (149F) for 10 minutes or so will do the job.

Have fun!

Thanks, there are some good details in there I will use next batch. My first batch using S04 was actually prone to overflow the carboy and into the 3 piece bubbler. My second batch didn't seem quite so vigorous. Though, I am getting somewhat close to the expiration on the yeast packets so maybe it was just weakened?

Maybe I misread the hydrometer and it was actually 1.002?? That would certainly make more sense. I started at about 1.053 and racked off lees at around 11 days of fermentation. I'll give S04 another chance, this time with a fresh batch.

 

[jseyfert3]

I am surprised that you were concerned with the results with SO4. It is probably worth another go as SO4 is currently my go-to yeast as it tends to finish a bit above 1.000 and so the cider has some residual sweetness. My current batch was a bit short on carbonation so I sacrificed a bottle, de-gassed it and measured the SG... it was 1.003 after six weeks so that is where it had finished even though I was expecting 1.002. You say that your ferment finished at 1.02.. do you mean 1.002 because that sounds about right for SO4.

I tried S-04 for this reason, as this is mentioned in the Cider for Beginners guide. I did a 5.5 gallon batch of cider from store bought juice, left it two months in the primary. Was 0.999 if my hydrometer is accurate. (I think I did do a distilled water check and it was fine, but it's not a finishing hydrometer)

Not sure if it's cause I left in the primary so long, store bought juice, or something else, but it sure did not have any residual sweetness.

 

[sreichenberger]

Just so I'm clear, so you would rack out of a carboy into a bucket (I think I have some that have a spout on it) and then you bottle out of that bucket? It seems that would introduce more oxygen. Is that not a concern if you bottle them quickly enough?

Concerning this concern of yours @Verac there are a couple of things you can do to "preserve" your Cider from being exposed to oxygen on bottling day. And timing is everything. Here's my advice:

1. The message @Yooper posted on transferring to a bottling bucket and bottling from there is the process I use. I already bottled from a carboy, but so many things can go wrong. Add priming solution to the bottling bucket, and use a syphon and an atoxic hose to syphon from the carboy to the bottling bucket. Very important: make sure the end of the hose is fully submerged inside your priming solution, this will reduce exposure to oxygen;
2. Timing is everything. Only open the carboy when you have the Syphon and the hose ready to go;
3. Once you finished transferring from the carboy to the bottling bucket, close the bucket, give it a slight shake and then bottle.

Make sure everything is sanitized from the hose, to the syphon, bucket, bottles and the crowns.