Yeast question

[redrocker652002]

I am looking to make a citra IPA. The recipe I found shows Lutra Kveik yeast. After doing some reading, I am not sure I can get the temp up in my closet to satisfy the yeast. What, if any others, would be a good dry yeast substitute? I have had great luck with Bry-97 and Safale S05. Here is my recipe:
11 pounds 2 row
1 pound Munic
8oz Carapils
8oz Crystal
8oz Melanoidin
4oz Honey malt

.7oz Citra at 60
1.2oz Citra at 15,10,5,0
2.65oz Citra at either when wort cools to 135 with a good stir or dry hop after fermentation has stopped (I am thinking of maybe day 14)

Any input would be appreciated. RR

Adjusted the hop amounts to show ounces and not grams if that helps.

 

[palmtrees]

Do you usually ferment at ambient room temperature? No cooling during fermentation? If so, I'd go with the lutra. I have used it in quite a few beers, and I've tried heating it, letting it go at room temp, and cooling it to the standard 68 I use for most beers. I've been happy with it in all three conditions; it tends to be more neutral at lower temps, but still a healthy fermentation for me. I think you would get a better flavor profile from doing lutra at ambient room temp than doing S05 at ambient room temp.

Now, if you typically control fermentation temps with a fridge or something, you probably won't notice much difference between lutra at any temp and S05 at 65-68. So I would use whatever you already have on hand, if that's the case.

 

[redrocker652002]

I use ambient temps in my closet. Problem is, in San Francisco, it is getting cooler so I don't think I can even keep it at the mid temps right now. I can put a heating pad under it I guess and use my ink bird to run the temps. I used Lutra once for my Seltzer and it worked out good.

 

[IslandLizard]

75g Citra at either when wort cools to 135 with a good stir or dry hop after fermentation has stopped (I am thinking of maybe day 14)

My emphasis.^
IPAs are made with kettle hops, then dry hops in the fermented beer.
Add the dry hops after fermentation has completed. Best to do a soft crash, to drop the yeast, before adding dry hops.

For best results it's most important to prevent your (hoppy) beer from air (oxygen) exposure after fermentation has started, as well as during packaging.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you can control your ferm temps between 65 and 68F, I'd use US-05.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I am looking to make a citra IPA. The recipe I found shows Lutra Kveik yeast. After doing some reading, I am not sure I can get the temp up in my closet to satisfy the yeast. What, if any others, would be a good dry yeast substitute? I have had great luck with Bry-97 and Safale S05.

There's nothing special about Lutra from a flavour point of view, it's just clean. The point of using Lutra is that it stays clean up into the 80s Fahrenheit and beyond. But if that's not an issue then there's no point paying the premium for Lutra.

So just use any clean yeast - US-05, BRY-97, whatever. It's not ideal having no temperature control as more esters are generated as the temperature fluctuates and US-05 is a bit more vulnerable than others to that, but frankly with a ton of Citra you're unlikely to tell the difference. Another option which some brewers use is lager yeasts, which are a lot more forgiving of temperature than most people realise - the likes of 34/70 and M54 Californian Lager are quite happy at room temperature and obviously more forgiving than ale yeasts if the temperature drops a bit. So given your location and the fact that it floccs a bit better than 34/70, you might want to give M54 a go?

RDWHAHB

 

[hotbeer]

If you can control your ferm temps between 65 and 68F, I'd use US-05.

I've done quite a few light ales with US-05 and no control of the temps with good results. I leave the FV in area with ambient air temps between 68 - 71°F and the internal temp of the beer only goes to about 76°F for maybe 12 - 24 hours.

Fermentation temperature: Ideally at 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)

Afterwards it keeps close to ambient temps for the remainder of fermentation. But I don't do but 1 - 2.5 gallon batches. So possibly more quantity might change things up toward how high the temps get.

 

[redrocker652002]

Thanks for the info guys. I am going to put my inkbird in the closet for a few days and see what the swings are. I have a small heater I got off amazon that seemed to warm things up a bit when I did my last batch and I kept the closet right about 68 to 71. That batch turned out to be one of my better and it was all citra, so I am going something similar.

Thanks again to all who replied. All info if appreciated.

 

[AlexKay]

Chiming in with a recommendation for Nottingham, which for me has stayed neutral over a wider temperature range (i.e. both colder and warmer) that US-05.

 

[dmtaylor]

US-05 will ferment just fine down to about 55 F. And BRY-97 is closely related so it too I would expect to be fine fermented cool. Or try any of the other yeasts suggested above, they're all fine in the 60s. No worries.

 

[redrocker652002]

Thanks guys. Gonna see what I got. Might try the Nottingham as I have never used it before.

 

[wepeeler]

I am looking to make a citra IPA. The recipe I found shows Lutra Kveik yeast. After doing some reading, I am not sure I can get the temp up in my closet to satisfy the yeast. What, if any others, would be a good dry yeast substitute? I have had great luck with Bry-97 and Safale S05. Here is my recipe:
11 pounds 2 row
1 pound Munic
8oz Carapils
8oz Crystal
8oz Melanoidin
4oz Honey malt

20g Citra at 60
35g Citra at 15,10,5,0
75g Citra at either when wort cools to 135 with a good stir or dry hop after fermentation has stopped (I am thinking of maybe day 14)

Any input would be appreciated. RR

I'm guessing you're shooting for a West Coast-ish IPA? My suggestion would be to drop the Crystal, Melanoidin and Honey. Add another pound or so of Munich. You don't need to use Citra at 60. I'd go with a cheaper hop since you're only getting bitterness from it. Magnum, Warrior or any other decently high AA hop for bittering.

I'm not a fan of Lutra. It's not clean. All Kviek yeasts have a distinct flavor. US-05 at 68F is what I go with for my WC-ish IPAs. YMMV.

Def DH after fermentation is complete. Soft crash, as has been mentioned to drop yeast, then DH for 24-48 hours.

 

[redrocker652002]

I'm guessing you're shooting for a West Coast-ish IPA? My suggestion would be to drop the Crystal, Melanoidin and Honey. Add another pound or so of Munich. You don't need to use Citra at 60. I'd go with a cheaper hop since you're only getting bitterness from it. Magnum, Warrior or any other decently high AA hop for bittering.

I'm not a fan of Lutra. It's not clean. All Kviek yeasts have a distinct flavor. US-05 at 68F is what I go with for my WC-ish IPAs. YMMV.

Def DH after fermentation is complete. Soft crash, as has been mentioned to drop yeast, then DH for 24-48 hours.

Cool. thanks for the info. Never used Warrior so that could be kinda fun. I just found it on the internet or on one of the websites (either here or AHA) and thought it looked kinda cool. I have the Melenoidin so I figured what the heck, but if it will make it better by not using those ingredients I am all for it.

 

[IslandLizard]

20g Citra Warrior at 60
35g Citra at 15,10,5,0

With those 4 late boil additions, that beer will be quite bitter, hope you like that.
Have you calculated the IBUs?

After the boil, how fast can you chill it down to around 120F? Quick chilling is essential here to prevent further hop isomerization, not adding more bitterness, while keeping more of the flavor.

 

[redrocker652002]

With those 4 late boil additions, that beer will be quite bitter, hope you like that.
Have you calculated the IBUs?

After the boil, how fast can you chill it down to around 120F? Quick chilling is essential here to prevent further hop isomerization, not adding more bitterness, while keeping more of the flavor.

According to brewfather the IBU is about 69 I think. I am a big fan of Racer 5 on the commercial side and they have over 70 IBU according to their website. I have a wort chiller that does pretty well, but never timed it so I am not sure. I keep looking at it and thinking that is a lot of hops, but I could be wrong

 

[redrocker652002]

OK, so looking at my supply of grain that was left over from other brews, I have about 8oz of Crystal 20 and about 8oz of crystal 60. If I cut the Carpils and add the two crystals how much would that change the flavor profile? The leftover grains were put in vacuum sealed bags so I think they are still ok. My wife used the Foodsaver. Also, I have hop pellets that were also vacuum packed. I have small amounts of Amarillo, Chinook and Apollo (probably about 1/4 of each). Would any of those be a good addition instead of the Citra at any time?

 

[dmtaylor]

According to brewfather the IBU is about 69 I think. I am a big fan of Racer 5 on the commercial side and they have over 70 IBU according to their website. I have a wort chiller that does pretty well, but never timed it so I am not sure. I keep looking at it and thinking that is a lot of hops, but I could be wrong

Brewfather's IBU calculator is horribly inaccurate. Fortunately, there is also a limit to how many IBUs you can have in beer. The limit is about 90 IBU. You'll hit that. Your recipe does have a wasteful amount of hops in it IMO.

 

[jcfontario]

I have done Pale Ales with Kveik Voss with Citra and the citrus flavor from the Voss goes very nicely with the hops.

I just cool the wort down to 90 to 95 F and then pitch the yeast. The Kveik is so damn quick that it usually finishes fermenting in a day or two after pitching, so it really doesn't cool down as it ferments and I don't worry about the temperature control. I just let the temperature drift down before I dry hop. Hope that this helps.

 

[redrocker652002]

Brewfather's IBU calculator is horribly inaccurate. Fortunately, there is also a limit to how many IBUs you can have in beer. The limit is about 90 IBU. You'll hit that. Your recipe does have a wasteful amount of hops in it IMO.

Any suggestions on where I should cut back or change things? Most all have said that the hops are ot the problem but the grain bill I would be interested on why you say that. Not being an ass, truly interested.

 

[redrocker652002]

With those 4 late boil additions, that beer will be quite bitter, hope you like that.
Have you calculated the IBUs?

After the boil, how fast can you chill it down to around 120F? Quick chilling is essential here to prevent further hop isomerization, not adding more bitterness, while keeping more of the flavor.

I am open to suggestions on lowering or changing the hops. just a recipe I found that I thought might be kinda fun to try. Any input is welcomed

 

[dmtaylor]

Any suggestions on where I should cut back or change things? Most all have said that the hops are ot the problem but the grain bill I would be interested on why you say that. Not being an ass, truly interested.

Citra is the strongest, most assertive hop I know of. In other words, a little goes a long way. Also, hop additions every 5 minutes towards the end of the boil is more complicated than it needs to be. Why not just use 75g with 5 minutes remaining in the boil (one addition), then another 75g dry hop after the first day or two of primary fermentation. Boom, done. Less hops used, and you'll probably get identical results.

With respect to the malt, you should ditch the Carapils and the melonoidin IMHO. Carapils doesn't do what everyone says it does -- it's basically the same as base malt. And the melanoidin just doesn't belong in this style at all.

 

[redrocker652002]

Citra is the strongest, most assertive hop I know of. In other words, a little goes a long way. Also, hop additions every 5 minutes towards the end of the boil is more complicated than it needs to be. Why not just use 75g with 5 minutes remaining in the boil (one addition), then another 75g dry hop after the first day or two of primary fermentation. Boom, done. Less hops used, and you'll probably get identical results.

With respect to the malt, you should ditch the Carapils and the melonoidin IMHO. Carapils doesn't do what everyone says it does -- it's basically the same as base malt. And the melanoidin just doesn't belong in this style at all.

Cool. Thank you for that. I appreciate the feedback and help. I am still trying to make my way in the recipe forum so any input is appreciated.

 

[redrocker652002]

OK, so based on feedback, what do you all think of this:


12lb 2 row
2lb Munich
4oz Crystal 20
4oz Crystal 60
4oz Honey malt

Hops:

.5 ounces of Chinook or .5 ounces of Apollo at 60
1 oz of Citra at 15, 10, 5, 0
.5oz Amarillo at 5
2oz of Citra at dry hop after fermentation for 4 or 5 days

Yeast Bry97

Thoughts on this one?

 

[RM-MN]

One of the big features of Citra is its strong aroma. By boiling it for 15 minutes you are driving off a large percentage of its volatile oils, thus muting the aroma. I'd cut back on the late addition hops. Instead of the additions at 15, 10, and 5, eliminate them, add enough hops at the beginning of the boil for the desired IBU, and use 1 ounce each of Citra and Amarillo for the dry hop.

 

[dmtaylor]

OK, so based on feedback, what do you all think of this:


12lb 2 row
2lb Munich
4oz Crystal 20
4oz Crystal 60
4oz Honey malt

Hops:

.5 ounces of Chinook or .5 ounces of Apollo at 60
1 oz of Citra at 15, 10, 5, 0
.5oz Amarillo at 5
2oz of Citra at dry hop after fermentation for 4 or 5 days

Yeast Bry97

Thoughts on this one?

This looks inspired and very enjoyable. Still I think you don't need that much Citra at the end. Save a few bucks and use only one addition late in the boil instead of 4. Otherwise... looks very very tasty. Cheers.

 

[redrocker652002]

One of the big features of Citra is its strong aroma. By boiling it for 15 minutes you are driving off a large percentage of its volatile oils, thus muting the aroma. I'd cut back on the late addition hops. Instead of the additions at 15, 10, and 5, eliminate them, add enough hops at the beginning of the boil for the desired IBU, and use 1 ounce each of Citra and Amarillo for the dry hop.

Cool. Thank you for the feedback. I will play around with it in Brewfather and see what I get.

 

[redrocker652002]

This looks inspired and very enjoyable. Still I think you don't need that much Citra at the end. Save a few bucks and use only one addition late in the boil instead of 4. Otherwise... looks very very tasty. Cheers.

Thanks for the reply. So maybe just an ounce at flameout and move the Amarillo in with the dry hop?

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for the reply. So maybe just an ounce at flameout and move the Amarillo in with the dry hop?

I'd use 2 oz at flameout, that will work great. And sure, you can put the Amarillo with dry, sounds great.

 

[redrocker652002]

12lb 2 row
2lb Munich
4oz Crystal 20
4oz Crystal 60
4oz Honey malt

Hops

.5 ounces of Chinook or .5 ounces of Apollo at 60
2 oz of Citra at flameout (never done this before so I am reading up on it)
.5oz Amarillo dry hop
2oz of Citra at dry hop after fermentation for 4 or 5 days

Yeast Bry97

Ok, so this may be what I go with. Funny thing is it a lot like the Pale Ale I did using a kit from Morebeer. The hop schedule and grain bill is slightly different, but I think this may be a good one. Once again, thanks to all

 

[RM-MN]

.5 ounces of Chinook or .5 ounces of Apollo at 60
2 oz of Citra at flameout (never done this before so I am reading up on it)
.5oz Amarillo dry hop
2oz of Citra at dry hop after fermentation for 4 or 5 days

Yeast Bry97

Ok, so this may be what I go with. Funny thing is it a lot like the Pale Ale I did using a kit from Morebeer. The hop schedule and grain bill is slightly different, but I think this may be a good one. Once again, thanks to all

Your fermentation may take longer than that and you don't want the escaping CO2 to scrub out the aroma either. Think about when you will likely have time to bottle or keg this beer (2 to 3 weeks in the fermenter is good, more won't hurt) and then when you know the date, count back 3 to 7 days and add the dry hops then so you infuse all the flavor.

if I am in a hurry because I am running out of beer (God forbid that happens) I might dry hop on day 10 because I have enough experience to know how my fermentation will go and am willing to make this beer less than optimum in the interest of getting beer to drink.

 

[dmtaylor]

Well now you haven't got enough bittering. I would recommend using both the Chinook AND the Apollo for bittering.

 

[redrocker652002]

Your fermentation may take longer than that and you don't want the escaping CO2 to scrub out the aroma either. Think about when you will likely have time to bottle or keg this beer (2 to 3 weeks in the fermenter is good, more won't hurt) and then when you know the date, count back 3 to 7 days and add the dry hops then so you infuse all the flavor.

if I am in a hurry because I am running out of beer (God forbid that happens) I might dry hop on day 10 because I have enough experience to know how my fermentation will go and am willing to make this beer less than optimum in the interest of getting beer to drink.

Thank you for that. My plan is to leave it in the fermenter for at least 2 weeks, I think the Bry97 said that is how long to go, then add the dry hops and wait about 3 to 5 days and either keg or bottle depending on what is available at the time. I mistyped that part so I am glad you caught it. I am going to run two batches as I have just about finished my 805 similar beer as well. Thanks again for the input, it is most appreciated.

 

[redrocker652002]

Well now you haven't got enough bittering. I would recommend using both the Chinook AND the Apollo for bittering.

Good call I actually updated Brewfather when I saw that and included both and it kicked it up to about 56 or so I think. Forgot to change the post. Sorry and thanks for catching it.

 

[redrocker652002]

So, here is my final recipe. Per Brewfather ABV is around 6.4% and IBU is at about 56. I think I am in the ballpark here.

12 pounds 2 Row
2 pounds Munich malt
4oz 60L
4oz 20L
4oz Honey Malt (game time decision on this one, the package isn't opened yet. LOL)

Hops:
.5oz Chinook at 60
.5oz Apollo at 60
.5oz Amarillo at 10
1oz Citra at 5
1oz Citra at 1
2oz Citra Dry hop
.5oz Amarillo Dry hop

Bry97 yeast

While I type this, I still cannot help but wonder if I am overloading the Citra, but I bought it so might as well give it a try. Unless somebody has a really strong argument against. LOL. RR

 

[redrocker652002]

Update. My OG according to brewfather was supposed to be 1.061. I am at 1.052. I am bummed, but going to continue on. All I care about is the beer tastes good. So we shall see. Obviously I am not getting quite the efficiency that I thought. Oh well Cooling down to about 80 or so, pitching Bry97 and we will see where we go.

 

[redrocker652002]

Quick update, closet is sitting about 65 or so and both my beers are bubbling away. I did not hit my numbers on the IPA, but we will see how it tastes. On the good side, I kept mash temp anywhere between 147 to 155, so I also felt good about that. Maybe just did not grab as much sugar from he grain as I hoped, but it is what it is. I will try and keep this updated until I get it in the glass. Rock On!!!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

Update. My OG according to brewfather was supposed to be 1.061. I am at 1.052.

A few things come to mind:

• Was your final (post boil) volume correct?
• Did you have much wort left over in the kettle, with the trub?
• How finely or coarsely was your grist milled? Most big suppliers (NB, MoreBeer, etc.) mill like crap, very coarsely.
• How well did you lauter (drain) the wort?
• Did you sparge (rinse) the grain and how well?

And most likely it's a combination of any or all of those.
The other thing is your settings in Brewfather. The mash and/or brewhouse efficiency may be set (or estimated) too high.

It usually takes a few brews to hone in on the correct efficiency prediction.

 

[redrocker652002]

A few things come to mind:

• Was your final (post boil) volume correct?
• Did you have much wort left over in the kettle, with the trub?
• How finely or coarsely was your grist milled? Most big suppliers (NB, MoreBeer, etc.) mill like crap, very coarsely.
• How well did you lauter (drain) the wort?
• Did you sparge (rinse) the grain and how well?

And most likely it's a combination of any or all of those.
The other thing is your settings in Brewfather. The mash and/or brewhouse efficiency may be set (or estimated) too high.

It usually takes a few brews to hone in on the correct efficiency prediction.

I did not check my post boil, my bad. My preboil was low also so I wasn't expecting to hit it, just was hoping to get a bit closer.

I have maybe a quarter gallon, if that, left over. I did a dunk sparge and ended up with a small amount left there too. I have calculated my preboil amount to be somewhere between 6.75 and 7 gallons for me to get down to 5 into the fermenter.

Grain was milled by Morebeer. I have asked for a second milling and they have told me they do not do that, so who knows. I am thinking of getting a mill of my own to do it myself, but cannot justify the expense right now.

The bazooka screen I have in my boil kettle was a bit clogged, but I got most of it out. I sprayed a bunch of starsan on my hand and basically cleared the trub from the screen to get the last of the liquid out. I ended up with 5 gallons in the bucket.

I agree I think I am too high on my numbers in Brewfather. I have to play around with it. Not sure what to do there, but I figure knowing the OG, I can mess with the efficiency until I get the OG in Brewfather to match my OG of the batch.

Also, this is a BIAB setup, not sure what to do about the lautering part. But I am learning. The other batch I did, a kit from Morebeer, the OG was spot on. So, maybe it was something I did. Thanks for the reply, Rock on!!!!!

 

[redrocker652002]

OK, so I set the OG on Brewfather to what I got, 1.052 and changed the efficiency number until the grain bill was about where my recipe was. So, if I did it right, I got about 62% efficiency and should have added a pound plus of 2 row, half pound of munich and slight amounts of the crystals. Does this sound about right? should I adjust my efficiency number down for now and assume I am going to be in that area for batches going forward?

 

[RM-MN]

Grain was milled by Morebeer. I have asked for a second milling and they have told me they do not do that, so who knows. I am thinking of getting a mill of my own to do it myself, but cannot justify the expense right now.

You have no control over the mash efficiency when someone else does the milling. They may change the mill gap at any time and the mill may wear and change the gap.

Also, this is a BIAB setup,

Ah, you have the option of a much finer milling. I use a Corona style mill and it works well with BIAB. Being so cheap for the mill means the difference in the cost of the lesser amount of grain it will pay for itself quickly. For an example here is one on Amazon, not necessarily the cheapest price for one.

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Qual...ocphy=9020241&hvtargid=pla-275636958843&psc=1

OK, so I set the OG on Brewfather to what I got, 1.052 and changed the efficiency number until the grain bill was about where my recipe was. So, if I did it right, I got about 62% efficiency and should have added a pound plus of 2 row, half pound of munich and slight amounts of the crystals. Does this sound about right? should I adjust my efficiency number down for now and assume I am going to be in that area for batches going forward?

Before you adjust for the efficiency you got, you need to make more beer to see if it stays constant or if your technique improves the efficiency....unless you get a mill like I mentioned. Then you need to make at least 2 batches before you adjust for efficiency.