Wyeast 3711 French Saison

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you should not wait dupont is one of the best beers.

I must say, as far as saisons, i think hennepin is my favorite. It is very similar to dupont, though.
 
petep1980 said:
My buddy came by last night and he swears this strain comes across between a hefeweizen and a belgian. He says he gets lots of banana. I don't taste any FWIW.

I did primary @ 66-68F.

I got a banana flavor on day three but by day five of fermentation it was gone. It of actually thought that saison yeast came out of champagne strains.
 
Fine Creek Farmhouse Saison

Saison4.jpg
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Saison.jpg
 
Thanks DP and it tastes as good as it looks. One of my best original recipes.
 
Thanks DP and it tastes as good as it looks. One of my best original recipes.
It does look wonderful. I just brewed up my first saison ever this past Thursday. 20% rye, 10% wheat, 10% munich, 60% 2 row. Northern brewer at 60, with an ounce of styrian goldings at 10 and flameout. WY 3711. What was your recipe?
 
I went with a very traditional and simple approach. Here you go:

Recipe: Saison
Brewer: Jeremy
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.92 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 6.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 69.23 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 23.08 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 7.69 %
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.75 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 23.4 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 9.7 IBU
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 13.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 16.25 qt of water at 162.9 F 148.0 F
 
I've made three saisons with this yeast and my observations so far are that the esters and phenolics seem to be exaggerated with a higher gravity. I've made two saisons above 1057 and one at 10.48. The two higher gravity saisons both had characteristic saison esters and phenolics but were fermented differently, one kept at 66F and the other a free rose from 68 - 78F. The lower gravity saison did a free rise from 68 - 78F as well but came out boring and lacked much of the yeast character of the higher gravity saisons.
 
I've made three saisons with this yeast and my observations so far are that the esters and phenolics seem to be exaggerated with a higher gravity. I've made two saisons above 1057 and one at 10.48. The two higher gravity saisons both had characteristic saison esters and phenolics but were fermented differently, one kept at 66F and the other a free rose from 68 - 78F. The lower gravity saison did a free rise from 68 - 78F as well but came out boring and lacked much of the yeast character of the higher gravity saisons.

Damn, hope that's not the case with mine! OG: 1.04-1.038

I got some good esters when I popped the lid for a hydro sample on day 3. I've had it on the yeast for 10 days or so, maybe I should cold crash and keg before they clean up too much.
 
I've made three saisons with this yeast and my observations so far are that the esters and phenolics seem to be exaggerated with a higher gravity. I've made two saisons above 1057 and one at 10.48. The two higher gravity saisons both had characteristic saison esters and phenolics but were fermented differently, one kept at 66F and the other a free rose from 68 - 78F. The lower gravity saison did a free rise from 68 - 78F as well but came out boring and lacked much of the yeast character of the higher gravity saisons.

Most likely it is the yeast pitch pitching rate in relation to the gravity, how did you decide what quality of yeast to pitch for the different gravity wort?
 
runs4beer said:
Most likely it is the yeast pitch pitching rate in relation to the gravity, how did you decide what quality of yeast to pitch for the different gravity wort?

I'm sure you could coax more out of the yeast by changing the pitching rate. I always make a starter per Mr. Malty for every beer. However, right now I've got a starter going for another 3711 saison that is about 25% less than the suggested amount.
 
OMG I finally figured out what this yeast tastes like. Do you guys ever remember the incense at church? I feel like I am drinking that. Delish.
 
Another 3711 batch.
8# pills
8# wheat
0.6# cara pill
0.5# aromatic
mashed at 155º
I split into two batches, a 2.5 gallon first running batch and a 5.5 gallon batch, 1.083 and 1.045 respectively, under pitch 30% at 77°. The high gravity had 0.5# of Chinese rock sugar and the little beer had 1.3#.

Can't wait to see how low it gets the 1.083 batch.
 
Brewed a Biere de Garde with 3711 in mid May based on a "kitchen sink" recipe I brewed a few years ago.
33% Pilsner DME
33% Pilsner Malt
25% Light Munich
3% Caramunich
3% Aromatic
1% Chocolate Rye

(partial) mashed at 150.
OG 1.076
FG 1.006 after 2 weeks.
Pitched at 66, and let ride up to around 70F -- my temp control involves blankets/water baths and moving the fermenter to various hot and cold spots around the house, so this was far from scientific-- until it hit 1.010, then I bumped it up to the high 70s until it finished out.

Just tasted one tonight that is dry but with a strikingly full mouth feel. Plenty of phenols with some esters.

The thing that shocked me most (beyond the rip roaring ferment) was how the beer changed over the last few weeks. It's finally settling down, but for a while every time I tasted the beer it was completely different, moving from spicy with very few esters, to a strongly estery and malty version, and now to a nice balance between the spice and malt with only moderate fruit ester. I've taken more detailed notes than with my past beers, but I've never seen a beer change this dramatically on a week to week basis.
 
I am brewing my first Saison this week using 3711. The brew store talked me into this recipe and said I could do a secondary on fruit, I have never done either. I am thinking about splitting the batch and bottling half while putting the other half on fruit...any ideas or recommendations on fruit - raspberry, peach, apricot - canned puree or frozen fruit pureed at home? Or should I stay away from fruit on my first Saison and just enjoy...hmmm, maybe I should try a first with half the batch bottle conditioned with one of the Brett strains. Any help is greatly appreciated as I am a Noob.
 
If it were me... I'd brew it without any fruit or spices or any extra stuff like that. See how the saison tastes on it's own. Then, if you want to rebrew it with fruit, you'll have a better idea what would work with your beer.
 
If it were me... I'd brew it without any fruit or spices or any extra stuff like that. See how the saison tastes on it's own. Then, if you want to rebrew it with fruit, you'll have a better idea what would work with your beer.

Agreed. However, I totally recommend that you experiment with all of your ideas. 3711 was my gateway into pushing saisons as far as I wanted. Definitely play around with the pure simplicity of the yeast itself without spices, fruit, brett, lacto, pedio, etc. Make 10 gallons batches, you'll thank yourself later. Eventually try fermenting 3711 around 80F too if you can. I'm drinking a 79 IBU pils/wheat/cara60 "Saison d'Lupulin" at the moment that I made in April, fermented with 3711 at 86F. Yes, 86F. And it is incredible. Seriously.

I've been using 3711 for years at 72-74F with a pils/wheat bill with styrians and EKG at 30-ish IBUs and have turned out excellent saisons. I eventually started adding brett and lacto to the same beers, waited 6 months, added fruit, waited another 3 months, bottled, waited another 3 months, and ended up with crazy brett saisons that could rival Boulevard Brewing.

Use whole fruit. It's July and THIS WEEK is THE week to get out to your farmer's market or farm and pick/gather/hoard as many blueberries, raspberries, cherries or whatever you can get your hands on. Just GET them, then freeze them. You can use them at any point over the next 12 months. Whole fruit will give you a much more complex flavor profile than puree or juice. I know I'm starting a huge argument here but I'm just pointing out the truth. :rockin: If you are doing a fast saison without brett I think you could go with peach or apricot. A friend of mine did a blood orange saison years ago that was amazing.

3711 is one amazing Saison strain. It lends itself to all kinds of experimentation. What? What was that? Did someone say lemon grass, kaffir lime leaves and coconut? No, that must have been my imagination. :D
 
My buddy and I are brewing a belgian quad in a couple weeks. I am going to pitch it on top of a 3711 yeast cake used in a secondary fermentation, and throw in a stir started culture of belgian witbier 3944 and see what happens.
 
Thanks for that post Simoce4life! It's got me thinking about all the things I want to do with this yeast...
I've never gone in the 80s with this one, what do you get out of it?
 
fermented with 3711 at 86F. Yes, 86F. And it is incredible. Seriously.
Good to hear, so no fusel alcohol taste?
I posted about my brew from Monday (6 or 7 posts ago) which I pitched in at 78F and let it free rise to 82F where it stands now, I had been pitching at 64F and letting it free rise to ~76F but I wanted to really kick up the esters and but was starting to worry about fusel alcohol on my 1.084 batch.
Looking at my brew log the is my 11 batch with 3711 (all from the same pack, original made on date was 3/17/2009).
 
I'm now cold crashing a saison I pitched 2 weeks ago. OG: 1.04 FG: 1.002 damn!

Pitches at 66* but temps fell to 56* the next day. Raised it back up to 62* where it began fermenting. Raised to 66 after 24 hours. 68 after 36 hours and by 72* after 72 hours. By the fourth evening I pulled it out to finish at 78*f for the remainder of primary.

Ester profile is moderate but delicious. One sniff and you know you're going to drink a Belgian. This is my lowest OG batch by far, which I did purposely since I've heard 3711 attenuated like a mother. This brew should be super refreshing to drink over the rest of summer. I plan on brewing a bigger, more complicated saison with the harvested yeast later on, I may let that one start at 70 and then raise it up.

VVV Edit: corrected FG
 
I'm now cold crashing a saison I pitched 2 weeks ago. OG: 1.04 FG: 1.02 damn!

Pitches at 66* but temps fell to 56* the next day. Raised it back up to 62* where it began fermenting. Raised to 66 after 24 hours. 68 after 36 hours and by 72* after 72 hours. By the fourth evening I pulled it out to finish at 78*f for the remainder of primary.

Ester profile is moderate but delicious. One sniff and you know you're going to drink a Belgian. This is my lowest OG batch by far, which I did purposely since I've heard 3711 attenuated like a mother. This brew should be super refreshing to drink over the rest of summer. I plan on brewing a bigger, more complicated saison with the harvested yeast later on, I may let that one start at 70 and then raise it up.

Should that read a FG of 1.002?
 
Has anyone been reusing yeast long enough to experience any mutations or changes? Also any issues with just repitching on the yeast cake rather than collecting a quart, cleaning the fermenter, then pitching the quart?

I have a batch of Hoppy French Saison fermenting that I brewed on Saturday. I made a couple of errors and got my OG a little high and my volume a little low. I'd like to retry the same recipe again and just repitch on the yeast cake, if possible.

I'm thinking about then reusing the yeast for either an amped-up saison (higher ABV, more malt charachter, maybe spices) OR trying it with a stout.
 
Also any issues with just repitching on the yeast cake rather than collecting a quart, cleaning the fermenter, then pitching the quart?

Unless you're brewing some thing really big I wouldn't do this, a saison is all about the yeast's influence, if you over pitch you'll get little of it's profile, you'll be much happier if you stress the yeast a little by under pitch (per Mr Malty) by 20-30% rather then way over pitching on a whole yeast cake in the fermenter.
 
Unless you're brewing some thing really big I wouldn't do this, a saison is all about the yeast's influence, if you over pitch you'll get little of it's profile, you'll be much happier if you stress the yeast a little by under pitch (per Mr Malty) by 20-30% rather then way over pitching on a whole yeast cake in the fermenter.

+!

At the very least, pour out 80% of the yeast cake. Why not take the exrta hour to wash the yeast? You'll have some saved in jars for next time, plus you'll still have plenty to pitch right away. It's good practice.
 
+!

At the very least, pour out 80% of the yeast cake. Why not take the exrta hour to wash the yeast? You'll have some saved in jars for next time, plus you'll still have plenty to pitch right away. It's good practice.

Spot on advice. This 3711 was the first yeast I washed becuase my LHBS doesn;t carry any Wyeast products. I didn;t want the hassel of ordering on line just to get a specific strain of yeast.
 
Wow, thanks so much for the replies guys and especially to Simcoe4Life for taking the time to give us all some ideas for the future. I was planning on fermenting the 3711 at about 74 degrees, I have a closet that can keep that temp but it sounds like even going to 78-80 would be ok?

This is exciting and obviously, being that I am noobish, I hadn't even thought to reuse this yeast, (something I will have to learn to do).

A Few more questions...
1) If I freeze a bunch of fruit, what is the best way to prepare it before I freeze (wash, peel, etc.)
2) When I defrost, how should I prepare it for secondary (puree in blender, smash into chunks)
3) How many pounds of fresh fruit is needed per 5 gal. I live in colorado and we are coming up on some incredible peaches from the Western Slope and maybe I need to order a whole box.
4) If I want to try cherries, do I do sour or sweet?

Thanks again, this is cool.
 
This was the first yeast I washed as well. Had 4 jars of it in the fridge for future saisons. Then SWMBO decided to clean out the fridge and didn't know what the "jars of goo" were and threw them out. I cried a little on the inside but didn't let it show.
 
This isn't the first I've washed but its the first I really came up with a plan for after reading this.
So, I mail orders the smack pack two years ago (it had a 3/17/2009 made on date) and made a starter. From the starter I kept 10-20ml of thick slurry and brewed a 1.045 batch with the rest of it. From that yeast cake I washed and kept (5) 6oz mason jars and brewed all summer with them.
The following year, (last summer) I made a 3 step starter from the 10-20ml I had reserved (100ml>500ml>2L) and from that I again reserved 10-20ml which I fired up in May and did it all over again for next year.
Then, after that, I went and got W3711 tattooed on my left cheek.:rockin:
 
When I washed mine, 3711 was still a one time only special Wyeast was offering. So, when my wife dumped out the jars, I thought that was the last of the yeast I'd ever have my hands on. I was quite happy a few weeks later when Wyeast announced it was going to be a regular item.
 
hey uhh, can I pick this yeast up anywhere? It seems everyone is sold out since wyeast (temporarily) decided to stop making it, has wyeast shipped out new ones yet? I want this yeast damnit!
 
I was a little disappointed in this yeast in secondary. In a week it went from 1.010 to 1.008 @ 75F.

Do you think I should save it out of secondary?
 
petep1980 said:
I was a little disappointed in this yeast in secondary. In a week it went from 1.010 to 1.008 @ 75F.

Do you think I should save it out of secondary?

Why did you use a secondary? At 1.010? How long did it sit in the primary?
 
Why did you use a secondary? At 1.010? How long did it sit in the primary?

Experimentation. I used Wyeast 3944 in primary, and it was in primary 1 week. I made a previous batch exclusively with 3711 and I liked some of the flavor, but it's beginning to come off "as a bit much". Since it's so highly attenuative I was hoping it'd get down closer to 1.004 or so and I would get some flavor from it, but not black pepper heaven.
 

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