Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[methodbeer]

Yeah I agree with passedpawn, I wouldn't add sugar either. I love the simplicity of the grain bill! IMO, simple grain bills = better beers, especially when it comes to Franco/Belgian styles.

My only criticism/concern is the high mash temp. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread. But, I'm sure it won't make a bit of difference with the 3711 as others have noted--it'll be as dry as ever.

The lagering is an EXCELLENT idea. Biere de Garde!!!

 

[joety]

Yeah I agree with passedpawn, I wouldn't add sugar either. I love the simplicity of the grain bill! IMO, simple grain bills = better beers, especially when it comes to Franco/Belgian styles.

My only criticism/concern is the high mash temp. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread. But, I'm sure it won't make a bit of difference with the 3711 as others have noted--it'll be as dry as ever.

The lagering is an EXCELLENT idea. Biere de Garde!!!

Yes, I was going to mash low, then I saw just how low this beast can finish and didn't want it extremely dry. I do like the simple bill but this morning I am toying with the idea of throwing in some Special B or de-husked black for color. The de-husked black may not be as close to style, but I'd need less of it to get an amber hue.

 

[joety]

Ended up adding 2 oz of Carafa III. Might be just a tad darker than I'd like for an amber, will use 1.5 oz next time if I make this again.

 

[JFryauff]

Update on the Saison...
I stepped the temp up to 78-80 degrees for the last 7 days, and as of yesterday my gravity reading was at 1.009.
I am happy with that, so I have taken off the warmer, and will let her settle out over the next few weeks.
Tasting notes of the measured brew had a slight tartness, and mild hot alcohol esters (assuming from the warmer temps).

 

[elproducto]

When is a Saison ready to drink? Do they need months of aging, or can they be drank reasonably fresh? I'd like to have run ready for a camping trip the first week of August.

 

[discgolfin]

I think if fermentation goes well you'll be more than fine. I tasted my current batch at 2 weeks and it was good. you could brew it in june and be plenty good.

 

[Jboggeye]

I find that they take 4-5 months before they are perfect. (they get funkier with age) They are still good young, especially if you make a lower gravity Saison.

 

[elproducto]

I'm using Jamil Z's Saison recipe, but judging by the power of this yeast, I think I'll modify the recipe to drop the OG a bit. He suggests an OG of 1.060, but if 3711 gets it down in the single digits FG.. will be a fairly big beer.

 

[ChshreCat]

Update on the Saison...
I stepped the temp up to 78-80 degrees for the last 7 days, and as of yesterday my gravity reading was at 1.009.
I am happy with that, so I have taken off the warmer, and will let her settle out over the next few weeks.

Note, the yeast don't care what you're happy with. Make sure they're done and the FG is completely stable before you declare it finished or you might end up with overcarbonation and/or bottle bombs. This yeast is famous for being able to ferment to or near 1.000.

 

[JFryauff]

Note, the yeast don't care what you're happy with. Make sure they're done and the FG is completely stable before you declare it finished or you might end up with overcarbonation and/or bottle bombs. This yeast is famous for being able to ferment to or near 1.000.

Oh, I understand that completely. I won't be bottling for a few weeks yet, as there is still some activity going on, and I'd like to see it dry out a bit more.

 

[ChshreCat]

Oh, I understand that completely. I won't be bottling for a few weeks yet, as there is still some activity going on, and I'd like to see it dry out a bit more.

Ok. Just checking. Sounded like "That's as dry as I want it, so I'll stop now". I've heard that before so I wanted to make sure. heheh

 

[JFryauff]

Ok. Just checking. Sounded like "That's as dry as I want it, so I'll stop now". I've heard that before so I wanted to make sure. heheh

No worries, I am still fairly new to all this, so I appreciate the sanity check.

 

[DBear]

JFryauff,

I like this yeast.

Observations from my experiences with 3711.
-Starting at 62F and letting rise to 70F really brought out the classic spicy/fruity saison flavors
-Low flocuation, after 21days in primary I still cold crash for 3 days
-My all malt 1.052 saisions down to 1.004 mashing at 150F. I believe this yeast will dry out an all malt 1.060 saison mashing in the high 140s

-Cheers

 

[chrisdb]

great thread- I'm culturing Thiriez Amber on a stir plate, combined with La Moneuse Saison, but resereved 3711 at my LHBS for an all grain ( no sugar) farmhouse ale. I'm using what I have- belgian pale base with small additions of cara amber and belgian aromatic, first wort hjopping with Styrian and small additionn of czech saaz at the end of boil-sound ok to you?

 

[discgolfin]

Im a little new to this yeast..but it is a beast for sure..I was curious how well other saisons have aged in a keg with this strain or well the style in general..I left in primary three weeks, crash cooled and plan to keg..but wasnt sure how much better this will get in time in the keg..its actually freaking great now..will it get more funky? Its off the yeast at that point but have others had experience with it changing much in time or just mellowing...
\
thanks, J

 

[methodbeer]

JFryauff,

I like this yeast.

Observations from my experiences with 3711.
-Starting at 62F and letting rise to 70F really brought out the classic spicy/fruity saison flavors
-Low flocuation, after 21days in primary I still cold crash for 3 days
-My all malt 1.052 saisions down to 1.004 mashing at 150F. I believe this yeast will dry out an all malt 1.060 saison mashing in the high 140s

-Cheers

I usually start around 65 and go to 70. I get the same classic tastes with this strain. Nice and tart and spicy--like the description says. I do think 21 days is quite long. We only ever primary for a week. And our all malt beers all attenuate below 1.005 at those temps, even with OG's at 1.080! Just aerate enough and your good.

We just did a Belgian RyePA (2nd runnings of a parti-gyle) with this yeast. Add a couple pounds of cane sugar (~15%) mashed at 145 and we took a 1.050 down to 1.000! Dry and hoppy and freaking awesome! Can't wait for some CO2. Then we racked our Quad (1st runnings) on top of the yeast cake to try and dry it out a bit more. The Belgian Abbey II we used for that just isn't as good as the 3711...we're hoping to get it below the 1.020.

 

[Sheldon]

I used 3711 with a starter on Monday for a Rye Saisson. Its now 36 hours and no activity in bubbler and not much when I put pressure on the fermenter's lid. I know that the bubbler isn't the only indicator of fermentation, but i also did a Hefe after the Saisson and its bubbling away. OG was right on target 1.058 and ambient temp has been in mid 60's. Is this lack of obvious activity normal, just wondering if I still need to roust those yeasties tonite when I get home if they are still sleeping.

Input please.

 

[simcoe4life]

I think you need to heat it up to get to at least 68F. This yeast usually takes off SO fast, especially when I do a starter. However my starter temp is near 80F and I'm fermenting in a hot bath of 85F.

 

[azscoob]

I brewed a simple Saison about a month ago, I made a starter like I do for all of my liquid yeasts. 3711 went from 1.068 to 1.004 in 10 days, then over the next week it dropped to 1.002 and has been quite stable there. I am overjoyed with the taste of the sample and will be kegging this in the next day or so. this yeast cake is definately on the wash and save list.

 

[Sheldon]

I will use my heat belt and get the fermenter temp up to 68ish. Thanks.

 

[JLW]

3711 is a beast. I started mine around 70 with a 2.7 L starter and it was roaring within a few hours. I'm going to check on mine this weekend to see if it is done fermenting. I'll probably leave it in primary for at least two more weeks if not three.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

I brewed a black saison on Sunday and used a 1 liter starter for 5.5 gallons of 1.051 wort. Fermentation was going strong the next morning at 65F. You don't need to heat up 3711 to get it going, like other saison yeasts. My first saison with 3711 fermented in the mid-60s for 3 days before I took the temp up to 72F. It had plenty of saison character even before I raised the temp.

 

[simcoe4life]

>>You don't need to heat up 3711 to get it going, like other saison yeasts.<<

Very true. 3711 is definitely not like the Dupont strain which likes 90F.
I usually ferment 3711 at 72-74F with great results.

The past 3711 saison I did at 85F turned out remarkably good however. The high temp definitely kicks up the notch on the esters and gives it that farmhouse funk twang. Now if I could just get it to finish at 1.010 instead of 1.002, I would be quite happy.

 

[petep1980]

I am finally using this strain, and I am super excited about it. I feel like I'm just a couple weeks late, I'd like to have this ready for August, early September.

 

[Sheldon]

So now I read that mid-60's isn't out of range for 3711. Maybe I will be pleasantly suprised when i get home and have activity. If not, I will try to roust the yeast a bit more and if that doesn't work, try to add some dry yeast to wake the little fellas up.

 

[bh10]

So now I read that mid-60's isn't out of range for 3711. Maybe I will be pleasantly suprised when i get home and have activity. If not, I will try to roust the yeast a bit more and if that doesn't work, try to add some dry yeast to wake the little fellas up.

Ive tried both warm (78-80º) and cooler (68º), I preferred the cooler, such better taste IMO.

 

[Sheldon]

Wife just looked at fermenter, still no obvious activity. Hope there is stuff going on inside, I will have to take a peek once I am home from the salt mine here in Washington, DC.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

I will have to take a peek once I am home from the salt mine here in Washington, DC.

While you're in there, pull a gravity sample. That will give you a good idea if the yeast has started their work yet.

 

[Sheldon]

For all you non believers and those that think there must be bubbles (including me) I rousted when I got home, then 2 hours later read the suggestion to take a gravity reading. So, I takes me a reading and lo and behold, I see some crauzen and the reading is 1.028, down from 1.058 in only about 52 hours, that is amazing considering there is no obvious sign of activity.

Thanks for advice. This should be a lesson for all non-believers.

Sheldon

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

For all you non believers and those that think there must be bubbles (including me) I rousted when I got home, then 2 hours later read the suggestion to take a gravity reading. So, I takes me a reading and lo and behold, I see some crauzen and the reading is 1.028, down from 1.058 in only about 52 hours, that is amazing considering there is no obvious sign of activity.

Thanks for advice. This should be a lesson for all non-believers.

Sheldon

I was converted in the same way. The airlock on one of my buckets wouldn't bubble even during vigorous fermentation.

So how'd the sample taste? I took a sample on my previous saison when it was about 2/3 attenuated and it was pretty awesome!

 

[Sheldon]

Doog_si_Reeb - the sample tasted pretty dam good and much better than when it went into the fermenter. This is going to be one great tasting and drinking beer in a few weeks.

 

[moti_mo]

For all you non believers and those that think there must be bubbles (including me) I rousted when I got home, then 2 hours later read the suggestion to take a gravity reading. So, I takes me a reading and lo and behold, I see some crauzen and the reading is 1.028, down from 1.058 in only about 52 hours, that is amazing considering there is no obvious sign of activity.

Thanks for advice. This should be a lesson for all non-believers.

Sheldon

I am one of the "non-believers", but only because I use a glass carboy that I know is air-tight.

The laws of physics work - no leaks means bubbles if you're fermenting. So its really just a lesson that you're using leaky bucket fermenters.

Back on topic, 3711 definitely rules. My recently brewed 3711 saison is tasting more amazing to me every day.

 

[Austin_]

Ahh, summertime. It's 104 degrees here today and that means only one thing - Saison season is here. The other day I started my first saison of the year with 3711. I love this yeast. I enjoy the Belgian strains as much as the next guy, but 3711 it is the dummy-proof version of saison yeasts. Too hot? No problem. Too cool? No problem. Full Attenuation? No problem.

 

[petep1980]

Ambient temps:

Basement: 64F
Upstairs: 75F

Which should I ferment in?

 

[Jboggeye]

basement for 3711. with a water bath you'll get all the phenolics you want. 75 (meaning 80+ during fermentation) will add too much banana. I wouldn't unless you want to use belgian strain.

 

[petep1980]

basement for 3711. with a water bath you'll get all the phenolics you want. 75 (meaning 80+ during fermentation) will add too much banana. I wouldn't unless you want to use belgian strain.

Thanks, 64F ambient is 70F inside the fermenter when I took temp today.

 

[smokinghole]

So anyone that has the bottle coating haze from this yeast, did you find a good way to get rid of it? I tried soaking in oxyclean, I tried CLR, and I'm currently trying vinegar. None work so I am thinking that I need to get some caustic but wanted to check to see if anyone had a bottle cleaning trick. I'd chuck the bottles but they're the heavier crown cap belgian bottles and I like reusing them.

 

[ChshreCat]

I've never tasted banana from this yeast, even when ambient was in the 80's to lower 90's though the whole fermentation. Only fruit I taste in it is the tons of citrus.

 

[JLW]

I've never tasted banana from this yeast, even when ambient was in the 80's to lower 90's though the whole fermentation. Only fruit I taste in it is the tons of citrus.

That's good to read. I fermented this thing pretty warm in the low to mid 80's. I'm one week into fermentation and really trying hard to leave it alone for another week before taking a hydro sample.

 

[trigger]

I brewed a golden strong with this yeast a couple days ago. O.G. was 1.086. I cooled to around 65 and pitched a 1L starter. I had activity in the airlock within 4 hours and today it's just starting to blow off a bit. I've got 5.25 gallons in an 8 gallon bucket. This yeast is a beast. I also added 2lbs homemade golden invert sugar to try to get this beer fully dry. I'm hoping for good things.

Last year I did a saison with 3724. It was good, but not my cup of tea. It took about 3 months to get down to F.G. and was way too peppery and not at all fruity. I fermented that one at 80 and let it rise to 95 to get it to finish. Hopefully the 3711 will work out better for this beer.