Wyeast 3711 French Saison

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As promised.

Its day 6 of my WLP029 and WY3711 mixed fermentation at 16.5C (62F). Gravity reads 1.004, target was 1.005. So 3711 was completely unaffected by the low temperature.

Initial tasting is good, very restrained Saison character. Plenty of lemon citrus from the Sorachi Ace. A slight Kolsch quality to the beer, but that might be because I know that was the other yeast or it could be the malt bill was 90% pilsner

Upping the temperature to 21C (70F) probably unnecessary but I want to make sure I clean up any potential diaceytal and make sure its fully attenuated.

3711 is an epic yeast. (it is worth noting that WLP029 would have got it to 1.006 anyway)
 
My experience is that 3711 fermented at 62F gives Hefeweizen-style flavor notes. You need to go above 70F to get the spicy Belgian aspect of this yeast. Just depends what you want the beer to taste like.
 
The sample I pulled on Saturday had is fair share of spice, it did indeed have a hef quality to it but it wasn't excessive, less than a previous fermentation done 1-2 C higher
 
Just finishing up a session saison made of 40% wheat, 40% pale and 20% flaked wheat. Took it from 1.038 to 1.005, was hoping for a little lower. It hung out at around 65-70 ambient. Tasted yesterday and it has a fantastic spice profile, only a little bit of citrus. The mouthfeel wasn't too light, I think this yeast makes some proteins that aid that.

This is my first beer that I loved at the hydro sample. I think I'm going to wash this and pitch a healthy jar into something more moderate, 7% or so. Then use that whole cake to attempt a super saison at around 10-12%(maybe even higher?) for the fall. Does anyone have any advice on going big with this yeast? I want to make sure this still comes in below 1.010. I haven't attempted anything big before but I figured a big saison would be easier than a RIS or a BW.
 
ThatVideoKid said:
Just finishing up a session saison made of 40% wheat, 40% pale and 20% flaked wheat. Took it from 1.038 to 1.005, was hoping for a little lower. It hung out at around 65-70 ambient. Tasted yesterday and it has a fantastic spice profile, only a little bit of citrus. The mouthfeel wasn't too light, I think this yeast makes some proteins that aid that.

This is my first beer that I loved at the hydro sample. I think I'm going to wash this and pitch a healthy jar into something more moderate, 7% or so. Then use that whole cake to attempt a super saison at around 10-12%(maybe even higher?) for the fall. Does anyone have any advice on going big with this yeast? I want to make sure this still comes in below 1.010. I haven't attempted anything big before but I figured a big saison would be easier than a RIS or a BW.
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Just be sure you include some amount of sugar to prevent it from finishing unstylistically sweet. Im not sure when the yeast will have had it, but I would definitely recommend that if you want to be under 1.010 and keep the flaked wheat
 
m00ps said:
Just be sure you include some amount of sugar to prevent it from finishing unstylistically sweet. Im not sure when the yeast will have had it, but I would definitely recommend that if you want to be under 1.010 and keep the flaked wheat
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Okay, the mid-range saison is going to be a smash of pils and Strissellspalt. Depending how I like this session saison, I will probably just scale up that same recipe to 10%, and add sugar to bring me up the rest of the way. I may sub in a pound or so of rye too. I don't have a great way of introducing oxygen, but oxygen is mostly for reproduction, right? I plan to set this thing in my old stone basement(57-60 ambient) and wrapping it up after day 2 so it can free-rise nice into the 70s.
 
Once again, I've made a saison (this time a rye saison made from extract to save time) with 3711 and it dropped 10°P with no problem at all. Just threw it on a keg and will report back in a day or two.
 
ThatVideoKid said:
Okay, the mid-range saison is going to be a smash of pils and Strissellspalt. Depending how I like this session saison, I will probably just scale up that same recipe to 10%, and add sugar to bring me up the rest of the way. I may sub in a pound or so of rye too. I don't have a great way of introducing oxygen, but oxygen is mostly for reproduction, right? I plan to set this thing in my old stone basement(57-60 ambient) and wrapping it up after day 2 so it can free-rise nice into the 70s.
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Yeah oxygenation is only important at the start of fermentation and IME, you can do a decent job with vigorous shaking at a 5-6gal level.

If you basement is still 60F, I would move it to room temps once you notice activity. 60F is too low for saison yeasts. Even if they do work a that temp, theyll get better performance and better yeast character higher
 
m00ps said:
If you basement is still 60F, I would move it to room temps once you notice activity. 60F is too low for saison yeasts. Even if they do work a that temp, theyll get better performance and better yeast character higher
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I second this. My most recent batch with this yeast was fermented around 18°C (65°F) and whilst it still fermented out beautifully I didn't get the pronounced yeast derived character, but rather a much cleaner brew.
 
DrWill said:
I second this. My most recent batch with this yeast was fermented around 18°C (65°F) and whilst it still fermented out beautifully I didn't get the pronounced yeast derived character, but rather a much cleaner brew.
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I usually start Saisons at 68°+ and let them rise as high as 80°+. This will give you more of the estery/Belgian character. I've used 3711, 3724, Belle Saoson, etc, all with great outcomes.
 
I am soon gonna put this one to the test and start it around 22 C, raise it to ca. 26 C. Really I am looking to get some character beyond additions.Bloody yeast works, but is too clean..so far.
 
govner1 said:
Why too clean? Are you referring to flavor or clarity?
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in my opinion, it is flavor. 3711 produces a very dry beer and great mouthfeel, but the flavor is lacking. for my tastes, a 3711-only saison is boring. i use another yeast for flavor (like 3724) and then use 3711 to finish up and dry out the beer.

i was once asked to brew beers for a party where most of the attendees were not craft beer drinkers but had some interest in it. i made a low-hop APA and a 3711 (only) saison. they served their functions as "intro beers" quite well.
 
sweetcell said:
in my opinion, it is flavor. 3711 produces a very dry beer and great mouthfeel, but the flavor is lacking. for my tastes, a 3711-only saison is boring. i use another yeast for flavor (like 3724) and then use 3711 to finish up and dry out the beer.

i was once asked to brew beers for a party where most of the attendees were not craft beer drinkers but had some interest in it. i made a low-hop APA and a 3711 (only) saison. they served their functions as "intro beers" quite well.
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I've heard that a higher fermentation temp (even above the manufacturer's recommended range) will give you more variation in the fruity esters produced, and thus a more complex flavor profile. I'm going to brew my first 3711 saison in a couple weeks, so I'd appreciate hearing other people's experience as to whether that's true.

EDIT: Yeah, okay, I just realized that the whole entire bloody thread is people's experience as to whether that's true. Gonna go do some reading now...
 
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Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]
 
BaylessBrewer said:
Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]
Click to expand...
Sounds similar to an Apex Predator clone I brewed this weekend with 3711. 9 Lb Belgian Pils, a pound of flaked wheat, and half a pound of honey malt. Mashed at ~150, OG at 1.052. 1oz Crystal @60, 1 oz Crystal @ 15, 2 oz Crystal @ flameout, 1 oz Sterling @ Flameout. Pitched at 80, and has come down to about 75.
 
Mainer said:
Sounds similar to an Apex Predator clone I brewed this weekend with 3711. 9 Lb Belgian Pils, a pound of flaked wheat, and half a pound of honey malt. Mashed at ~150, OG at 1.052. 1oz Crystal @60, 1 oz Crystal @ 15, 2 oz Crystal @ flameout, 1 oz Sterling @ Flameout. Pitched at 80, and has come down to about 75.
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Sounds good! I've not had that one. Who brews it?
 
BaylessBrewer said:
Just pitched 3711 in a Kama Citra Kit I got from northern Brewer yesterday.
A few notes;

1) Added 1lb flaked wheat
2) mashed at 150. OG was 1.062
3( not going to dry hop this one. Hop schedule as follows, .5oz centennial 20min, 1oz cascade 15min, 1oz cascade 10min, .5oz centennial 5min, flame out and lower temp to 160 with IC added 3oz Citra and 1oz cascade
4) ground water only allowed for me to get temp down to 72. I'm impatient so I called it good and pitched a 1500ml starter. 24hrs later and we have a good krausen forming and temp is up to 74. I wrapped it with a fleece blanket just now and will leave it alone.
Fingers crossed it comes out drinkable [emoji2]
Click to expand...

I just did a saison using 3711
mashed at 154 degrees and the final gravity was 1.002

If you mashed at 150, you may be ending up with a very dry beer!
 
beerlover77 said:
I just did a saison using 3711
mashed at 154 degrees and the final gravity was 1.002

If you mashed at 150, you may be ending up with a very dry beer!
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Wow that's low!! I don't mind it being dry as that's kinda what happens and what I look for in A saison.
How long did it take yours to get down to 1.002?
 
BaylessBrewer said:
Wow that's low!! I don't mind it being dry as that's kinda what happens and what I look for in A saison.
How long did it take yours to get down to 1.002?
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Not long... maybe 5-7 days
I started ferment around (22c) 71f and ramped up to (30c) 86f over aweek
even though it's dry, it has a nice peppery/fruity taste to it offsetting this.

check out a video of it fermenting Mad here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=581533
 
beerlover77 said:
I just did a saison using 3711
mashed at 154 degrees and the final gravity was 1.002

If you mashed at 150, you may be ending up with a very dry beer!
Click to expand...
Dry sounds good. I was worried this would turn out too similar to an ipa I brewed this spring with kolsch yeast and a similar grain bill (but with flaked oats in addition to the wheat) but that only got down to 1.013, so dry would be a nice change of pace!
 
BaylessBrewer said:
Wow that's low!! I don't mind it being dry as that's kinda what happens and what I look for in A saison.
How long did it take yours to get down to 1.002?
Click to expand...


This strain does that all the time. I think it has more pathways for some larger sugars, it doesn't seem to care about your mash temp. There have been accounts of people mashing at like 158 and it still takes it down to around 1
 
Mainer said:
Sounds similar to an Apex Predator clone I brewed this weekend with 3711. 9 Lb Belgian Pils, a pound of flaked wheat, and half a pound of honey malt. Mashed at ~150, OG at 1.052. 1oz Crystal @60, 1 oz Crystal @ 15, 2 oz Crystal @ flameout, 1 oz Sterling @ Flameout. Pitched at 80, and has come down to about 75.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that Apex Predator uses 3726 (Farmhouse Ale). It's one of the best beers I have had recently, so I just brewed a Saison using bottle dregs and it seems to be working just fine FYI. (Not exactly a clone, I used Sterling and Hallertau). My impression is that Apex Predator is a tiny bit fruitier and less dry than 3711 although I am sure your clone with 3711 will turn out great.
 
48hrs in and the krausen has dropped already! No gravity sample yet though. Going to give it a couple more days.
Temp was 78 last night and now it's 74. I might move it out to the garage this weekend and try to get up around 80+ for a couple days.
 
Aristotelian said:
I read somewhere that Apex Predator uses 3726 (Farmhouse Ale). It's one of the best beers I have had recently, so I just brewed a Saison using bottle dregs and it seems to be working just fine FYI. (Not exactly a clone, I used Sterling and Hallertau). My impression is that Apex Predator is a tiny bit fruitier and less dry than 3711 although I am sure your clone with 3711 will turn out great.
Click to expand...
I also did boil hops, whereas their site says they dry hop with Crystal. But that's okay. I prefer a beer of my own that's "inspired by" rather than a direct clone. Because if I were truly trying to imitate the beer exactly, I'd just go buy it.
 
Mainer said:
I also did boil hops, whereas their site says they dry hop with Crystal. But that's okay. I prefer a beer of my own that's "inspired by" rather than a direct clone. Because if I were truly trying to imitate the beer exactly, I'd just go buy it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing wrong with that! Just wanted to clarify in case somebody trying to make a true clone stumbles onto this thread.
 
Couldn't stand it so I took a gravity sample. 1.010 @ 72 hrs in. Still bubbling like wine ferments so I'd say it's not done yet.
Put the fermenter out in the garage where it's about 80-82* F.
The sample tasted very promising!! Some hops, some yeast character going on, nice clean finish. I can't wait to get this bad boy on tap
 
BaylessBrewer said:
Couldn't stand it so I took a gravity sample. 1.010 @ 72 hrs in. Still bubbling like wine ferments so I'd say it's not done yet.
Put the fermenter out in the garage where it's about 80-82* F.
The sample tasted very promising!! Some hops, some yeast character going on, nice clean finish. I can't wait to get this bad boy on tap
Click to expand...

Yeah it's still got room. I used this on a saison starting at 66 deg for a few days then up to 72 then up to 82 and it finished out at 1.002. Turning a 6% beer into a 7+% beer and no detectable alcohol taste at all this yeast gets fruity at those high temps.
 
Has anyone done experiments with adding some sugar to this once fermentation slows down? I love this yeast for being fullbodied and generally on the clean side while being a bloody fermentation train. However, for some recipes I would want extra esters and I read that adding the sugar found in a lot of saison recipes when fermentation slows down helps ensure a quick and full attentuation and kick up the esters a bit.

I will try this myself for sure, but am just wondering if there are experiences with that before I do.
 
Kiichi said:
Has anyone done experiments with adding some sugar to this once fermentation slows down? I love this yeast for being fullbodied and generally on the clean side while being a bloody fermentation train. However, for some recipes I would want extra esters and I read that adding the sugar found in a lot of saison recipes when fermentation slows down helps ensure a quick and full attentuation and kick up the esters a bit.

I will try this myself for sure, but am just wondering if there are experiences with that before I do.
Click to expand...

You'll get quick and full attenuation regardless with 3711. I add about 5% sugar as a matter of course because I prefer dry. I find that slick fullness of 3711 without sugar to be a bit much.
 
I brewed my first 3711 last week. It's fermented down nicely, but now it's got white dots forming on the surface that hopefully are yeast rafts, not a cross-contamination from the brett I bottled on the same day...
 

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