Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[rhys333]

Anybody know if Woodlandbrew's simple harvesting procedure works well for 3711 and saison? Works great for standard ales, but since saisons are typically very clean with a minimal grain bill, i'm wondering if there's an increased chance of off-flavors repitching unrinsed slurry.

 

[Kiichi]

Yeah, letting it rise up a bit is a good idea. Still start on the lower side for cleanlyness and then let it run after 1-2 days of active fermentation or so I´d say.

 

[m00ps]

Anybody know if Woodlandbrew's simple harvesting procedure works well for 3711 and saison? Works great for standard ales, but since saisons are typically very clean with a minimal grain bill, i'm wondering if there's an increased chance of off-flavors repitching unrinsed slurry.

I alwyas harvest my yeast from my starter to minimize off flavors from hops and yeast stress. Works great, Im on the +10th generation on a few of my strians

 

[m00ps]

I can definitely do it warmer. It /is/ Summer in Texas after all

Just be sure to insulate the fermentor or something if you are thinking about putting it outside. With any saison yeast, its fine to crank it up in temp, but do not let it drop. This will make some strains stall, some will get through (3711 included). But the ONLY time I had a saison that tasted like bandaids was from letting it go from the mid 70s to 80s once per day in a sunroom

 

[dpatrickv]

Anybody know if Woodlandbrew's simple harvesting procedure works well for 3711 and saison? Works great for standard ales, but since saisons are typically very clean with a minimal grain bill, i'm wondering if there's an increased chance of off-flavors repitching unrinsed slurry.

I rinse 3711 everytime I brew with it. Ive gone 10+ generations in without getting any noticable off flavor or defects.


Note: 3711 is one of my favorites yeasts. The only times I havent repitched it is when I made a imperial india saison with it.

 

[knelson13A]

My first time with this yeast. Got a SMASH (Pilsner/Cascade) saison fermenting for 12 days now. OG of 1.045, it was down to 1.006 yesterday. Sample tasted great! I love this yeast so far.

 

[rhys333]

I rinse 3711 everytime I brew with it. Ive gone 10+ generations in without getting any noticable off flavor or defects.


Note: 3711 is one of my favorites yeasts. The only times I havent repitched it is when I made a imperial india saison with it.

Do you ever get a lacto-like white film on top after 3 weeks in the fermentor? Twice now i've had this happen, both times with 3711, and in the same way. Different yeast batches too. It doesn't affect the beer at all, but i am wondering if they put something in with the yeast to make it do that.

 

[dpatrickv]

Do you ever get a lacto-like white film on top after 3 weeks in the fermentor? Twice now i've had this happen, both times with 3711, and in the same way. Different yeast batches too. It doesn't affect the beer at all, but i am wondering if they put something in with the yeast to make it do that.

95% of my saisons never stay in the fermentor for more than 2 weeks at most but I have never seen much of a white film on top of any of them. Do you have a picture?

 

[rhys333]

Here's a photo. The only variable across the two batches is my wine thief which i used for a gravity reading 1 week ago. Thinking i'll retire it and just do a refractometer brix fg conversion in future.

View attachment 1436476247640.jpg

 

[Jonkl]

Is the gravity stable? That looks a little like slow fermentation, chugging away at the last few points, rather than a full-on pellicle.

That's just what the picture looks like to me, though.

 

[rhys333]

I hope its just finishing up, but the picture betrays whats going on somewhat as the film is quite white. The gravity was 1.003 last week (OG 1.048 > 93% attn) and the top surface was clear. I know this batch will be fine, i just wonder how the harvested yeast will behave next time. Good experiment me thinks

I'll carb this one in the bottle to 2.3 volumes so its got some room in case it decides to keep going.

 

[Jonkl]

It could go lower than 1.003 (I've seen 1.001!), but you're probably right thinking it's a pellicle. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Kiichi]

Another batch of my green tea and citrus saison using this yeast is now ready. Took me 3 weeks start to finish, though I probably could have done it even quicker. Fully carbed to 2,8 vol in one week. Tasty this and lovely mouthfeel considering the malt bill I used. This yeast really delivers there.
I do also once again have the issue that it really bloody sticks to the bottom of the bottle though, more than any other yeast I used.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Anybody ever done a prickly pear saison with this yeast. Also any hop recommendations?

 

[rhys333]

It could go lower than 1.003 (I've seen 1.001!), but you're probably right thinking it's a pellicle. Let us know how it turns out!

Turned out great. Brewing again today with the harvested yeast. I guess this'll be the true test.

 

[sweetcell]

i'm currently drinking/serving a well-hopped 3711 saison. i made it for a friend's b-day party and i chose 3711 because of its relatively tame character (i.e. it's non-saison'ess). the intention was to brew something that wouldn't scare away non-saison drinkers. hit the mark, two people told me that they don't usually like belgians but really dug this saison.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

So gonna take a crack at this yeast again with the hope that I don't get fusels like I did with the strawberry saison. Since I'm now paranoid would it be reasonable to ferment at 65 for the first two days then bump to 67 for two days then 70 for two days and then hold at 72 until complete. Also let the yeast clean up for 3 weeks do a small dry hopping of hull melon and finally cold crash for 1 week?

One last question I seem to be getting inconsistent impressions around the clove/pepper notes so I was thinking of grains of paradise. I picked up 2 grams and was thinking of cracking all 2 grams and pitching with 5 minutes remaining in the boil.

Thoughts?

Also to ensure I pitched adequate cells I'm doing a starter so I have 215 billion cells per Mr.Malty, etc...

BTW I use blow off tubes so I'm not terribly worried about the aggressive fermentation of this yeast. My main concern is to prevent FUSELS....

 

[rhys333]

I just let it go at ambient in my basement (65-74 depending) for a day, then use a heat belt to raise it to upper 70s for the best part of a week. Then rest at RT until the 3 week mark. No fusels.

 

[cowboys703]

Damn, I love this yeast. 5 days and it went from 1.053 to 1.002ish. Chilled to about 65 and pitched the yeast and let it run wild (my apt runs about 74ish degrees and I run without an airlock during primary fermentation). Took a sample today and it was actually quite tart which is something new (my third brew with this yeast) but I friggen love it. I would drink a dozen or so of these tonight if I could.

 

[Queequeg]

I brewed a Saison a few weeks back with this yeast, fermented at 65F and raised the temperature to 70F on around day 6 top clean up.

The SG was 1.054 and the FG was 1.001.

The flavor is predominately spice and phenols when fermented low like this, but there was still a surprising amount of banana ester flavor. Its good, really good actually.

 

[m00ps]

Banana? I've never gotten any thin like that from this yeast. IME, lower temps gives a bit of spice. High temps is super lemony zing

 

[Queequeg]

definitely banana, I will get one now and report back.

 

[Queequeg]

yep, just finished a bottle definitely banana and pear esters. The recipe contained a lot of rye and ginger if that's anything

 

[m00ps]

What temp did you ferment at?

 

[Queequeg]

65F I raised to 70F on day 6

 

[secondbase]

Interesting. The flavors you're describing are more characteristic of 3726. I've never gotten any banana or pear from 3711.

 

[Queequeg]

It surprised me too

 

[northwestcoast]

Bumping up this slightly old thread to keep the 3711 love going!

A while ago, I was searching for non-saison ideas for 3711 and came across this thread: www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=411792

The OP claimed that he used 3711 for a whole host of Belgians; saisons, dubbels, tripels, BDSAs, and Belgian pales. I had a bunch of washed 3711 that needed using, so I decided to give it a try.

I tried it in a dubbel first. Pitched at 72*F and let it free rise, setting my temperature chamber to make sure it stayed above 75*F once it got there. The beer topped out at 82*F. After three weeks, it was down from 1.070 to 1.007, and tasted incredible once it was bottled and carbed up! Lots of stone fruit and banana esters, with just the right amount of spicy phenols as a balance. Just cracked a bottle of the second go-around of this, and it was just as good! My only alteration was to drop the OG to 1.065 to adjust for 3711's high attenuation.

I had similar success using it in a quadrupel recently, with the same temperature schedule. This time 3711 took the beer from an OG of 1.081 to 1.005! Despite the dryness, it has the thick, silky mouthfeel I've come to expect from 3711. Once again, lots of banana and stone fruit (plum) esters and pleasantly balanced phenols.

I now have a tripel fermenting with it. Pitched at 60*F and am letting it rise to 72*F. Hoping for the more common citrus and spice profile that 3711 is known for.

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience? Might it be possible that the dark grains and candi syrup (D-90 for the dubbel and D-180 for the quad) allow the yeast to create different esters/phenols than it does with lighter grain bills?

Either way, this is quickly becoming my go-to yeast for most Belgian styles!

 

[DrWill]

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience?

This was surprising to me too. I think that at different temperatures this definitely throws different flavours in a very noticeable way. I think the idea that this might be related to the darker malts is highly plausible as well; I've never noticed it but I've steered clear of using this yeast on darker beers.

 

[Kiichi]

I have intentions to further experiment with this lovely bugger too, so far only rather clean spiced saisons and IPA-ish types (last IPA with it on bottle since Friday), and thought about stout, but now I am interested on a dubble and a blonde once summer really hits so that I can easily push the fermentation temperature. Maybe both split batch with Westmalle....mhhhh.

 

[signpost]

I brewed up Northern Brewers Ares Biere de Mars kit the other day and its bubbling away with 3711 steadily fermenting still 5 days later. I haven't taken a gravity reading, but I'm sure it's getting down pretty low. And it's sitting at a steady 62° F in a still chilly Michigan basement. I'll try to remember to report back on flavor profile after its finished.

 

[rhys333]

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience? Might it be possible that the dark grains and candi syrup (D-90 for the dubbel and D-180 for the quad) allow the yeast to create different esters/phenols than it does with lighter grain bills?

I only ever get the banana/stonefruit combo when I use 3711, never citrus and spice. I wish I did, because I find the flavor almost objectionable. Not sure why I only get banana/stonefruit, but it may be down to pitching rate or fermentor dimensions.

 

[Kiknjville]

Just took a reading after 10 days of fermenting. Started at 1.048, ended at 1.001. I added sugar due to not finding this thread until post brew. Started at 68 and very slowly moved to 74. I'm not a big Belgian fan and I don't know what possessed me to make this but... I cannot freakin wait to carbonate this and drink it. It's refreshing, citrusy, not too much of the spicy Belgian character, but enough to complement the bright citrus notes. I'm a fan.

 

[rhys333]

Just took a reading after 10 days of fermenting. Started at 1.048, ended at 1.001. I added sugar due to not finding this thread until post brew. Started at 68 and very slowly moved to 74. I'm not a big Belgian fan and I don't know what possessed me to make this but... I cannot freakin wait to carbonate this and drink it. It's refreshing, citrusy, not too much of the spicy Belgian character, but enough to complement the bright citrus notes. I'm a fan.

You'll be fine with the sugar addition. 3711 tends to come across as having a full mouthfeel due to yeast byproducts, despite finishing low. Sugar is actually still a good idea to help increase the perceived dryness.

 

[m00ps]

I know 3711 doesn't typically throw banana and stone fruit notes... does anyone have a similar experience? Might it be possible that the dark grains and candi syrup (D-90 for the dubbel and D-180 for the quad) allow the yeast to create different esters/phenols than it does with lighter grain bills?

I have a good deal of experience with this yeast. Ive found there are a couple saison strains that can produce bubblegum/banana/clove hefe-like flavors before they are allowed to condition and mature. For me, this ages out in a month or so about every time.

 

[Kiichi]

After 2w in the bottle I can present first notes on the recent IPA I brewed with this yeast. Grain bill included 20% wheat, 5% carapils, 4% unmalted wheat, and 3% crystal. Hops were mostly Mandarina Bavaria with a little bit of Simcoe and Nugget (from Spain).

While it finished at 1.004 (8,2% ABV, 94% attenuation) and is very dry indeed, it does retain a lot of mouthfeel. Quite immense for what it is actually. The grainbill has influence too of course, but my mash on this system is bad, so less than effect than you´d think.

In terms of flavor the yeast has provided a good chunk of lemony citrus that complements the Mandarina Bavaria well, which has a heavy sweet candy tendency to it for all of the niceness it provides.

In short: Dry, good mouthfeel, citrus.

Will update once fully ready, which I recon will be in another week.

Makes me think I want to do a pale ale with a mixed culture fermentation of English ale yeast and this. Use German hops like Mandarina or Huell Melon and brighten them up with something like Amarillo and this yeast.

 

[Queequeg]

Just brewed a saison yesterday with 90% pilsner, 5% wheat and 5% sugar. I pitched 2 mini starters, 3711 and whitelabs kolsch. Its currently fermenting at 16.5°C

I am hoping for a very muted saison character.

I used magnum to bitter and soraci ace for flavour/aroma

 

[xico]

Just brewed a saison yesterday with 90% pilsner, 5% wheat and 5% sugar. I pitched 2 mini starters, 3711 and whitelabs kolsch. Its currently fermenting at 16.5°C

I am hoping for a very muted saison character.

I used magnum to bitter and soraci ace for flavour/aroma

I've made restrained saisons with this yeast at temps between 18 and 19°C (64.4 °F and 66.2 °F). Please follow up and let us know how it goes, attenuation, days to finish out, so on. I've been worried of going too low on account of difficulties with Wyeast's Belgian Saison that will stall in fermentation when I go below 20°C.

 

[bobo31]

I brewed a hoppy saison with this yeast a few days ago. I used a fair amount of Amarillo and Fuggles. Its been fermenting in the low to mid 70's. Only time will tell.

 

[Queequeg]

Yep will report back