Would you go all-grain or start legging first?

[paulymd]

Hey everyone -

Just started home brewing 4 months ago doing extract kits. Im hooked and on the path of investing more into my brewing. Would you guys start kegging first and gain more experience with extract kits (I've done 3) or go all-grain?

Inevitably I'll being doing both eventually, just curious what you would do first?

 

[paulymd]

*Kegging! Dang autocorrect.

 

[Yooper]

"It depends" is a terrible answer- but that's the one I'm giving.

The reason is that each person is different. Which do you prefer? I didn't mind bottling too much, so I bottled the first 100 or so batches. But if you love the taste of the beer, but dislike the bottling process I think that would be the way to go.

On the other hand, if you feel that the beer needs improvement, and don't mind bottling too much, then the money might be better spent on equipment for brewing (like AG gear, or temperature control, etc).

 

[TheZymurgist]

If the choice was between those two, I would do all-grain first (which I did.) Here's a question for you: do you have adequate fermentation temp control? If not, that would be my next purchase. The three things that have improved the quality and consistency of my beer more than any other factor are temp control, yeast starters, and aeration with pure O2.

 

[neosapien]

i went all grain & bottling first then moved to kegging. here is my reasoning. all grain taught me a lot about the process, bottling taught me a lot about making sure to carry that sanitation through to the end. gushers are an embarrassing waste of a nice beer. you can also move move to all grain cheaper than you can start kegging, if that's a concern/

 

[duboman]

If you don't have control over consistent fermentation temperature control personally I would start there!

If that's already under control then it does really depend. AG brewing introduces a lot of variables in process that you may not be ready to tackle. Kegging is an investment but pretty straightforward and easy to figure out.

 

[tootal]

When I met my future brewing partner he was already brewing extract. He invited me to give him a hand with his first all grain brew. So I jumped into AG right off the bat and have never made an extract beer. Having said that, I have tasted some excellent extract beers so I'm not knocking extract at all! We were doing 5 gallon batches at first and bottling was a chore but not terrible. Once we started making 10 gallon batches then it became terrible!! At that point we decided to start kegging and man, I wish we had done this a long time ago!! Now we fill two 5 gallon kegs. Crash cool them to 30 degrees and force carbonate them. After they settle out and pour clear we do bottle a little for sharing but the beer is carbed correctly and with no sludge in the bottom. So I vote for kegs. It just gets rid of so many inconsistency's and labor it's worth it!:rockin:

 

[LandoLincoln]

As duboman said, good temperature control over fermentation is more important than either. I'd follow that up with investing in a stir plate and a flask for creating starters before I'd tackle either all-grain brewing or kegging.

After that, personally I'd invest in the kegging stuff, since that's pretty simple to get right and it's so much easier than bottling. Then I'd get the all-grain stuff going.

 

[theck]

I started both at the same time... the nice thing about all grain vs. extract is the price is slightly cheaper for ingredients. If I only was able to do one I'd keg first. Plus, it's getting harder to find decent reasonably priced used corny kegs... at least in my area. Get em now before they are gone. I keep an eye out on craigslist and jump if I see them below $40. Have 6 and slowing down now, unless I see some for $20 .

 

[Jayhem]

I've been AG brewering for over 2 years and 40 batches. I still bottle. Kegging is more problematic than just the initial investment. For one, if I have a chilled keg sitting in the basement I would be much more likely to drink too much beer any time I walk by the keg I'd top off my glass! The other big benefit of bottling is ability to easily transport your beer to different places or give away beer as gifts. I also often have 4-5 different beers in bottles. If I kegged only I'd only have a couple choices.

 

[mchrispen]

Personal opinion...

All-grain is likely to give you the best "improvement" in your beers. It is also significantly more time consuming, and if you are like me, money consuming as you continually try to improve your craft. If you are careful with your budget, a few all grain brews will save enough to cover the upfront costs, but there is a little learning curve. This is not to say you cannot make excellent beers with extract.

Kegging is awesome, but not cheap, as an alternative to what can be time consuming and a bit messy at times. I still bottle some beers, but fewer and fewer are bottle conditioned. I really only reserve that for my Belgians and the occasional bitter/mild. I find that like brewing gear, I am beginning to collect more and more cornys and gadgets like a bottling gun and the bits are adding up.

That said, as Duboman states - how is your fermentation control? I would absolutely spend money there (unless you have it well in hand) before either! IMO it is the most difficult part of the process to control and master regardless of extract/partial/all grain. Most of the bad extract beers I made were awful because I didn't understand how critical ferm temps were to the finished product.

 

[benj]

I vote AG. The reason is that I find AG rewarding, and it really isn't that expensive if you use the BIAB method. really the only additional expense is a bag (I use a $6 muslin one) assuming you have a large enough pot already. If you don't it'll cost you another $50 for an aluminum pot. If you go this route you might even be able to afford to start kegging at the same time. I don't keg yet, so I guess my vote is a little biased

 

[JDGator]

i went with kegging first. being up in northern Ontario, the beer selection sucks. never really had an IPA or a Porter until this year. all we had were commercial ales like bud, coors, etc. so i was able to brew 20-30 extract kits in a short period of time to try as many styles as i could. while the beers i made were not "GREAT" they were pretty good. now i brew all grain and know that patients and temperatures are key. i tend to do 10gal batches and bottle half and keg half.

 

[ArcLight]

All grain does not have to be expensive is you do BIAB (brew in a bag). (there is a whole folder here)
A BIAB bag is under $20, and will pay for itself in a couple of brew kits.

You will need a thermometer, that will take another beer kit to pay for itself.

The real question is do you want to spend the additional time?

 

[Homercidal]

Firstly, everyone has a differing opinion on how much they like or dislike bottling. Even though I don't hate bottling, I will admit that I keg 90% of my beer, because it's easier and I like to be able to pour half-glasses of beer when I only want a half glass. Plus, once the beer is done, you can carb it up faster on gas. That is sometimes important.

BUT, why not go AG AND KEG! If you want to try your hand at AG, simply buy a 5 gallon nylon paint strainer, and do BIAB. It is essentially the same process as the traditional methods. You still have the same issues with pH, temperature, grain crush, etc. But you don't spend nearly as much in equipment.

The only thing you might not have is a pot and burner big enough to do full boils, and if that's the case, then THAT is where I'd start (Assuming you have temperature control handled. That would be the very first thing I'd invest money in!)

So, if you have some way of controlling fermentation temps, and a kettle and burner big enough for full boils, THEN I'd do BIAB and get a kegging setup until I had enough money to build a cooler mash tun (Insert whatever style tun you want here).

There is no need to compromise.

 

[theck]

I've been AG brewering for over 2 years and 40 batches. I still bottle. Kegging is more problematic than just the initial investment. For one, if I have a chilled keg sitting in the basement I would be much more likely to drink too much beer any time I walk by the keg I'd top off my glass! The other big benefit of bottling is ability to easily transport your beer to different places or give away beer as gifts. I also often have 4-5 different beers in bottles. If I kegged only I'd only have a couple choices.

Could always growler the beer, what I do when going places with it. Gifts can be the same but will need to be drunk in a day or so... and ya it's pretty easy to say I'll just have 1 more ha, but I did that with bottles too.

 

[Xpertskir]

Kegging is a much bigger investment.

I echo the ferm chamber comments, if you don't already have one.

My opinion would be ferm chamber and AG. If you do it right, it will be cheaper to do both of those than to get a kegging and serving set up

 

[Skep18]

Kegging. Bottling sucks and you have to wait longer.

I went to kegging before AG and I'm in the same boat as you, about 4 months in. Happy I did.

 

[buckeye2011]

I went all grain BIAB then built a 2 tap keggerator from an old mini fridge, then eventually a 4 tap keezer. All I had to do was add a 2nd manifold and 2 more taps, so I didn't waste anything and could build incrementally. Going BIAB is really cheap and will cut your recipe costs down considerably, which will help you save money for that keezer. I had plans for a traditional all grain set up but after 3 years of BIAB I don't really see much reason to.

 

[fartinmartin]

All grain is good, so is extract
All grain gives a good understanding of extract
Bottling is ok it's transportable kegging is a bit more installed
Bottling is cheap kegging isn't
Bottles can be stored anywhere , kegs can't

I do bottles and plastic pressure barrels, they are not quite the same as kegs and not mentioned much on this forum, don't know why ? I find them cheap and ok, mine are at least 30 years old, so they last well, but so do the bottles.

 

[paulymd]

Thanks for all the responses! Definitely lots of good thoughts to consider. I've got the burner but not the kettle for all grain. The BIAB option is intriguing.

I do believe I've got the fermentation temp under control. I've got a storage room off my garage that essentially is in a hill and stays between 62-64 (I've got a thermometer that records minimum and max temps).

 

[Cyclman]

If you have a propane burner a 15G aluminum pot is cheap, a bag is $10 = All Grain BIAB for $75ish.

O2 injection, stirplate (cheaper yeast), next best step. Then temp control.

 

[Malric]

I went:

1. Temp control
2. Kegging
3. I did one partial mash, then BIAB on the stove
4. Full electric basement all grain system

All of this was over about 2 years. The main factor for me is time. Not so much on the brew day, but all of the other little stuff. Cleaning bottles was just an excruciating waste of time, so kegging was the no brainer. 2-3 hours to scrub, sanitize and bottle vs 15 minutes with a keg. Having said that, I REALLY enjoy brewing on my all grain electric setup. It's honestly just more fun to do all grain. Just my opinion.

 

[ja09]

Both open a can of worms imo. If you want better beer go with o2, stir plate and chamber. If you want convenience go with kegging. If you want total control go AG. Or do what the rest of us do, which is all of them

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[CRoth36]

All Grain All Day

 

[masonsjax]

If the budget isn't too tight, I did all grain and kegging from the first batch and can't imagine going any other way. The cost might be high initially, but both are well worth the investment.

 

[paulymd]

Thanks for all the input!

Leaning towards upgrading to a nice 15 gal kettle and going BIAB. Prob could also look into some fermentation equipment or do kegging as well.

 

[ShadyBrewer]

My vote is for BIAB and kegging. It would only cost you $20 or so for a custom bag from wilserbrewer (member on here) to do the all grain and then whatever a keg setup would cost. That's the route I went and couldn't be happier

 

[ja09]

Thanks for all the input!

Leaning towards upgrading to a nice 15 gal kettle and going BIAB. Prob could also look into some fermentation equipment or do kegging as well.

If you ever want to do 10 gallon batches, really think about a 20g kettle, especially with biab. They're not that much more. I'm regretting not going with 20, even though I don't do 10g that often.

 

[Malric]

I wish I had gone with a 15g mash.

 

[BigFloyd]

If you don't have control over consistent fermentation temperature control personally I would start there!

If that's already under control then it does really depend. AG brewing introduces a lot of variables in process that you may not be ready to tackle. Kegging is an investment but pretty straightforward and easy to figure out.

Agreed 100%. Having the ability to precisely control ferment temps rates above getting set up to do AG batches. In a warmer climate or one with big temp variations, a used freezer/fridge with an STC-1000 controller is hard to beat.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

When I first started brewing, I went, in order: extract partial boils, extract full boils, all grain, starters, kegging, O2. Then after having to sell off most of my equipment, then restarting, I went: extract full boils, starters, precise temp control, all grain, yeast slanting. I plan to get an oxygen tank eventually, but most of my beers are moderate gravity and have fully attenuated without the use of O2. The biggest difference in my quality from the first time to the second time was PRECISE temp control (like BigFloyd said, fridge/freezer with STC-1000). Kegging never improved the quality of my beer, not even with being able to control CO2 volumes, and since I actually enjoy the bottling process, making labels and giving away beer, I won't likely go back to kegging

 

[fartinmartin]

Don't get put off all grain due to all the comments about fermentation temperature control !
Review where you will be fermenting and what temperatures are available to you, for instance on the floor is cooler than a counter top, a cupboard is warmer than the counter top, basement or upstairs, the time of year and weather, all these give you a choice of your fermenting temperature, that's before you get inventive with swamp coolers and the like.
Then it's yeast selection and what temps it wants, for instance the following are yeast that I use.
M27 Wants 26-32C
M07. Wants 16-22C
M79. Wants 18-23C
US-05. Wants 12-25C
US-04. Wants 15-20C
And that's just a few, design your brews around your kit, your recipe and your environments , we all have loads of environments to choose from !

 

[budonze]

I did kegging first. I still do extract brews and now planning to go all grain soon. For me, I just couldn't stand bottling. That's why I started kegging.

 

[MindenMan]

I did a few Extract/PM batches, learning along the way, and finding out AG was much cheaper. My BK is heavy SS, so i didn't really need a cooler/tun to mash at the correct temperature. I made a Zapap tun to lauter/sparge and was getting better results than before (I already owned a thermometer). I then bought a hydrometer to see if I hit the correct O.G.'s or not. My fermentation chamber was my crawl space in my old house (rental), and one we now own doesn't give me direct access to the crawl space (plumbing is in the way). I already owned a propane burner that came out of my old smoker, so I had heat again (no access to the stove as the b/i micro was too tall). I bought a 40 qt pot, so I could sparge and not have to use every available burner in the house to boil down my wort. Then, before I got to break in my new 40 qt pot, I landed a new 30 qt turkey fryer set up for $20.00. then came Christmas, so I am sitting on a new burner/pot setup until after New Years sometime.
Once, again, sorry for the long post. I still bottle, still use my Zapap tun, and somewhere in the middle of summer, I had an empty 5 cu ft freezer, so I built a STC-1000 controller, and I now have both heating and cooling if needed. I still have a system on the cheap as some of the things I needed I already had. I have what I need to brew 5 gallon batches of 1.050 beer, and will have to figure something out if I start making bigger beers.

 

[BigFloyd]

I don't want to discourage you in an way from advancing into AG and/or kegging. I do AG (started with a mash tun and later built a 240V recirculating E-BIAB rig) and keg as well. It's really a matter of prioritizing the improvements/investments that will give you the greatest benefit to your brewing.

If I were forced to give up my brew gear man-toys (no offense Yooper ) one at a time, the last thing to go would be my fermenter fridge.

 

[Newsman]

I've been AG brewering for over 2 years and 40 batches. I still bottle. Kegging is more problematic than just the initial investment. For one, if I have a chilled keg sitting in the basement I would be much more likely to drink too much beer any time I walk by the keg I'd top off my glass! The other big benefit of bottling is ability to easily transport your beer to different places or give away beer as gifts. I also often have 4-5 different beers in bottles. If I kegged only I'd only have a couple choices.

On the other hand, it's not that hard to bottle from a keg, although I do see your point about drinking too much from a keg, but that's a different problem altogether and may be just a personal issue.