Would fermenting mead under pressure allow higher temperatures with no downside?

[NeverDie]

On a different thread pertaining to beer, two posters have said this holds true for beer and yeast: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ure-and-bottle-condition.663186/#post-8538941

i.e. if fermenting under pressure, the yeast can ferment at higher temperatures than their usual range without throwing foul tastes/smells or fusels or the like.

Does the same hold true for meads? I don't know why it wouldn't, but I'm asking just to be sure. If it's true, then it means I could maybe ferment under pressure at room temperature the very same yeasts that normally have a temperature range limited to below room temperature. And that means I would not need to refrigerate them to keep them happy. That would be great!

It sounds too good to be true, but if it is true, then what are the applicable rules? i.e. how much pressure translates into what kind of yeast temperature range extension?

 

[NeverDie]

Partially answering my own question, it apparently is for real:

Blichman made a lager 4x faster than it would normally take (in 2 weeks instead of 8 weeks), and he was able to do it at room temperature without temperature controls. So, pretty impressive. Chris White did analytics on it, and they took a wort split 4 ways to a state fair where judges judged it, and some of the judges preferred the pressurized versions over the traditional lager.

I'm still not sure how this might translate into meads. Anyone know? Anyone here tried it? Seems like the same general principles might apply. Given how long meads traditionally take to ferment and then later finish off in secondary, if it could be done, say, 4x faster without chilling and using a simple self pressurized fermenter, that sounds like a win to me!

 

[biochemedic]

I agree it is intriguing...you would obviously need to ferment in a container that would stand the pressure, perhaps a corney keg...

I would wonder what pressure was optimal, any you may want to have both some way to put pressure into the system to get it up to desired level, as well as a regulated release... One logistic issue I thought of would be how to best introduce nutrient additions to a pressurized system. Also, would the amount of dissolved CO2 create enough of a low pH to affect fermentation negatively (we degas for this reason). A buffer like potassium carbonate may be even more important.

Just spitballing here...

 

[NeverDie]

They also mentioned that under high enough pressure they can halt fermentation. If that could be done to an active fermentation, which you then stabilize with the usual chemicals, then maybe (?) you wouldn't have to waste time waiting for the yeast to ferment completely dry before stabilizing and backsweetening. Instead, maybe you can just halt it at the SG that you want and stabilize with chemicals while its halted, which is something that can't currently be done very effectively on an active fermentation, even with cold crashing. Would that work? If so, then no backsweetening required. Perhaps this might (?) be another big win.

I'm still pretty much a noob, and I see that pressurized fermentation has been discussed on the homebrewtalk forum as long as 10 years ago. Surely by now others here have already looked into how pressurized fermentation might work for meads? Yet none of the recent mead threads I've seen have made any reference to it. What's the skinny?

 

[bmd2k1]

Intriguing [emoji111]

 

[NeverDie]

What would be the easiest way to try this at small scale? Maybe using an Instant Pot? Those have an 11.6psi pressure relief valve.

 

[loveofrose]

What would really make this awesome is if you can harvest the CO2 to use for carbonation later. It would also make you a “green” Brewery because you don’t release CO2 into the environment. (Your consumer does. Thoughtless bastards.)

 

[ajf1994]

What would really make this awesome is if you can harvest the CO2 to use for carbonation later. It would also make you a “green” Brewery because you don’t release CO2 into the environment. (Your consumer does. Thoughtless bastards.)

You could certainly do this with corny kegs.

Keg 1 (active fermentation) gas post connected to liquid post of keg 2 (filled serving keg). Keg 2 has spunding valve on gas post, set to 15psi or so. Both head spaces will equalize at the pressure set by the spunding valve. Would have to be similar/complementing beers as the aromas from keg 1 will definitely go into keg 2. You could essentially endlessly carbonate beers.

 

[Blacksmith1]

This sounds a bit too much like a perpetual motion machine...

 

[NeverDie]

I checked "The Complete Meadmaker" book, the "How to Brew" book, and Chris White's Yeast book, and none of them make any reference to pressurized fermentation.

So, either the concept is too new, or else the authors didn't think it worthwhile to write about it. Has no one here has tried it?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

White labs has a pressure lager yeast available now. https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp925-high-pressure-lager-yeast
Though, this works with most lager yeasts apparently... I don’t know about how this would be for mead.

 

[NeverDie]

White labs has a pressure lager yeast available now. https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp925-high-pressure-lager-yeast
Though, this works with most lager yeasts apparently... I don’t know about how this would be for mead.

Thanks!

 

[MickB]

On a different thread pertaining to beer, two posters have said this holds true for beer and yeast: Ferment under pressure and bottle condition

i.e. if fermenting under pressure, the yeast can ferment at higher temperatures than their usual range without throwing foul tastes/smells or fusels or the like.

Does the same hold true for meads? I don't know why it wouldn't, but I'm asking just to be sure. If it's true, then it means I could maybe ferment under pressure at room temperature the very same yeasts that normally have a temperature range limited to below room temperature. And that means I would not need to refrigerate them to keep them happy. That would be great!

It sounds too good to be true, but if it is true, then what are the applicable rules? i.e. how much pressure translates into what kind of yeast temperature range extension?

Sorry to post to an older thread but I've been researching this since a visit last week to Wehrloom Meadery in Robinson and Ashville, NC. He makes all carbonated meads at different strengths under pressure and finishes ALL of his meads in 4-7 days(white labs designed specific yeasts for him) ranging from 4.5 abv to 11.5. Like others stated I've heard of this being done in kegs but aside from keeping oxygen out of beer and naturally carbing I didn't understand what good this would do. His meads are more beer like and absolutely terrific aside from a few odd herbal additions that didn't work for me. Another place is Arsenal cider House in Pittsburgh PA. Not positive on that but I know he has all unitanks which would likey be under pressured.

As for homebrew products, Fermzilla makes multiple vessels to do this from 7gal to 15gal. Some with trub valves and othersjuat round bottomsranging from $49-159. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get 2 of the small 7.9 gallon vessels and try this out? I like kveik yeast but if I could just stick with my saf 05 and never turn my sous vide on ever again... I'd be happy haha. I hope this is helpful!

 

[Malty Matt]

Sorry to post to an older thread but I've been researching this since a visit last week to Wehrloom Meadery in Robinson and Ashville, NC. He makes all carbonated meads at different strengths under pressure and finishes ALL of his meads in 4-7 days(white labs designed specific yeasts for him) ranging from 4.5 abv to 11.5. Like others stated I've heard of this being done in kegs but aside from keeping oxygen out of beer and naturally carbing I didn't understand what good this would do. His meads are more beer like and absolutely terrific aside from a few odd herbal additions that didn't work for me. Another place is Arsenal cider House in Pittsburgh PA. Not positive on that but I know he has all unitanks which would likey be under pressured.

As for homebrew products, Fermzilla makes multiple vessels to do this from 7gal to 15gal. Some with trub valves and othersjuat round bottomsranging from $49-159. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get 2 of the small 7.9 gallon vessels and try this out? I like kveik yeast but if I could just stick with my saf 05 and never turn my sous vide on ever again... I'd be happy haha. I hope this is helpful!

I recently got into pressure fermenting for the reasons you mentioned: no oxygen and naturally carbonating. Being able to brew lagers and not tie up a chamber for weeks is a big plus too. Things have been going well. Successfully brewed a Czech Pilsner and Vienna Lager at 65° under 15 PSI in a FermZilla All Rounder using Wyeast and Whitelabs Pilsner yeasts. I started purging oxygen and Star San from the serving keg using the excess CO2 during fermentation. I also use that captured CO2 to pressure transfer and keep foam down. Setup pictured below.

I have never brewed a mead but I'm interested in it. Pressure fermenting it lead me here. I'm curious to hear comments/results.