Worst Mead Ever - Any Help

[Redeemer]

Ok Mazers, here goes. I've got 10 or 15 meads under my belt with a bunch of beers, cysers and side projects and most have been at least satisfactory, with identifiable flaws that I could correct on the next go around.

After reading about the BOMM method and associated nutrient protocols, I am drinking a lot more mead than ever before, since it is ready so quickly. I don't think it will be entirely out of line to ask @loveofrose to chip in for my liver transplant if ever needed but thats a thread for another day.

Anyways I got a little lazy, not always measuring SG when I am making a batch with similar amounts of honey:water because it is fairly predictable. Also I normally use Goodflow honey because it is semi local and have been making friends with some bee keepers near me, but sometimes use Trader Joe's or even Walmart honey. I'm not sure what I used in this batch as I left it out of my notes. Thats the first and last time I do so but I don't think the honey is the culprit. Anyways, here is my recipe, and then I will tell you the problems:

August 19, 2019
Mead with just a little tart cherry


· 4 Gallons Ozarka Spring water

· 15 pounds honey

· 3 Teaspoons Fermaid-K

· 64 Ounces Organic, Non GMO tart cherry juice

· 5 grams Red Star Pasteur Blanc Dry Wine Yeast rehydrated in 2 cups Ozarka spring water and 1 teaspoon Go-Ferm

· 1 Teaspoon potassium bicarbonate

August 21, 2019

· 2 Teaspoons Fermaid-K in 1 cup Ozarka spring water

August 23, 2019

· 1.5 Teaspoons Fermax

October 19, 2019

· Racked into 5 gallon carboy with 1 Tsp ascorbic acid


Ok so I tasted this when I racked it and it was horrible. FG readings came in at less than 1 but I didn't need a hydrometer to tell me this stuff was DRY. Some fusels are present but I would say trace amounts. It doesn't taste hot. In fact I would say it doesn't have any taste at all; no honey, no cherry, no acidity, and some phenols (very slight band-aid taste) but all of these things could normally be corrected by aging, and possible back sweetening. None of these things are the problem though. The problem is, it tastes like bread. Yeasty, but not that clean yeasty ester flavor that changes with time. At first sip I asked myself if this was one I used an ale yeast on but I looked at my notes and no, I used the Pasteur Blanc Dry Wine yeast.

Now the ferment was fast and vigorous, at a pretty constant 79 degrees ambient temp. I did notice a fair amount of H2S and used it as an opportunity to experiment with nutrients. Note to self, experimenting without proper documentation is not science, it is a fool trying to get lucky. So I didn't use any DAP but used more Fermaid-K than a normal ferment on the front load. This was before I had any Fermaid-O which I am currently testing in a few batches. I want to say the off flavor comes from DAP, or something else in the Fermaid-K but until I mix those with water separately and sample them on their own, I won't know for sure. Obviously I am not eager to jump into that experiment, yet. This is also the first (And probably last) time I used Fermax in any brew.

As you can see it has only been in the secondary for 9 days. It is clearing at the rate I would expect given ambient temps and I really want this to be successful. But the sample I took tonight had to be poured down the sink. Thats hard for me to do as I can drink almost anything, even if it isn't perfect but this stuff is truly vile. I am confident I am not tasting spoilage organisms or oxidation, and really feel its from the nutrients but need a few second and third opinions. Can this be saved?

My prevailing idea at the moment is to add more honey and give it a few days. I doubt it will pick up again as I suspect I've reached tolerance for whatever yeast may be present, but possibly I can rescue this with some CBC 1.

I'm completely open to suggestions here, and thanks in advance.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I had a blueberry melomel, that tasted like cough medicine I made additions to “fix it” then it was bland... “fixed it” again. Eventually it was good enough to drink and share.

Wine yeast is thought to tolerate high temps, however for good mead we want happy yeast. Nutrients are a big part of that. I think you wrote your temp was 79F. So yeah expect fusels. If you do not taste sweetness, I don’t think you’ve reached the limit with the yeast.
Give it time, maybe acid or tannins to help it.

 

[Redeemer]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not too concerned about the fusels because I expected some of that, due to the temp. Its the yeasty / bread flavor that I can't abide. According to this table:
https://bjcp.org/meadfaults.php

I should have used something that flocs better and that it needs more age. I think in the future I will use more than 5 grams of yeast in my meads as there could have been some stress resulting from under pitching. Ugh so nasty.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Have you cold crashed it? (Sorry I’m too lazy to read your first post again)

 

[catalanotte]

Stabilize it then back sweeten to taste with honey before you bottle. Give it a year or more in the bottle to mellow. I have two bottles left from a 10year old batch. I back sweeten in a decanter and it is off the charts.

 

[Redeemer]

Have you cold crashed it? (Sorry I’m too lazy to read your first post again)

Nope. 5 gallon carboy too big for my fridge. I have no reliable means of temperature control for the near term.

 

[Redeemer]

I never stabilize. The reason being, while most of my meads are still, I welcome some carbonation. I only ever bottle in swing top bottles that can resist the pressure of a highly carbonated beer so if I get some bubbles it is a bonus.
The reason I am thinking of more honey (and possibly CBC 1) is to allow the yeasties to chew up some more of the excess nutrients. The problem with this theory is it will only work if that is the cause of my foul flavors.
I am gonna have to bite the bullet and sample the nutes independently and see if I can pick up the flavor. Not an exercise I am looking forward to. The upside is, this is in the secondary, with no headspace so it is essentially bulk aging which, while it may not fix the problem, shouldn't make it any worse, and buys me time to figure out where I went wrong.

 

[madscientist451]

Here's what I would do:
Rack it off to 1 gallon jugs and set it aside for a year or more. Maybe taste it in 6 months.
79F is within the stated temperature range for your yeast, but my experience has been lower temperatures and slower ferments provide better results.
Get a brewing scale (about $20) , and weigh out your Go-Ferm and nutrient additions instead of measuring with teaspoons.
Try the batch building/nutrient schedule found on the Mead Made Right website:
https://www.meadmaderight.com/tosna.html
You can make a cheap fermentation chamber using a cardboard box and insulation or just 2" foam that is kept cold with frozen water bottles. There are several Youtube videos showing how to do it. I used a setup like that for several years before I finally got a chest freezer.

 

[Miraculix]

If dap is the source of the off flavor, the yeast usually doesn't consume it in the later part of the fermentation. That's why dap additions are not done after a certain point, which you already are past.

But I think your problem is simply yeast in suspension. Just let it sit till perfectly clear and try again.

 

[Bobby_M]

There is always a way to cool a fermentation when it matters so much. Tub of water with ice pack change outs is one way. 79f is for Saison and Kviek, not mead. Should be near 65f at least for the first 10 days.

 

[bernardsmith]

But you used 5 g of yeast to make 5 gallons of mead? You can never over-pitch yeast (unless you are pitching a pound or more of yeast in a gallon of must at about 1.050) but you can easily under-pitch and under-pitching, ironically, results in those yeast flavors to which you refer. Yeast are very karmic. You stress those creatures and they return the favor by the bucket-load. Your starting gravity would have been around - what? 1.105 (or a potential ABV of about 14%)? I might have used about 3 or 4 packets of yeast. This ain't a session beer where you've coddled a starter for two or three days before pitching... I think the problem is under-pitching. But I could be wrong.

 

[Seamonkey84]

BOMM protocol uses specifically wyeast 1388, use TOSNA for dry yeasts. You’ll need to let the yeast clear and clean up after itself for a bit before even a cold crashed sample will taste good. Always stick to the middle to lower end of the yeasts temp tolerance, it’ll provide a cleaner ferment.

 

[Redeemer]

@bernardsmith Under-pitching, as you stated. I am beginning to think this could be part of the problem.

@Seamonkey84 I couldn't use TOSNA for this particular batch because I had no Fermaid - O at the time. That has since been corrected. And I know my ambient temps are generally too high. This is a problem I own and accept, and will eventually take steps to correct. Fortunately for me, even in TX, we are starting to get somewhat cool weather. I think the next time I see a 10 day forcast in the 50's I will start up a couple new batches and leave my office windows open (That room gets neither AC nor Heat in any significant way).

A quick trip to Meadmaderight.com
Just showed me a few of my errors though. First, that Fermaid K is acceptable (If not recommended) for TOSNA, and a slew of other things I did wrong. I just ran the recipe with the yeast type I used and found a number of deviations

• The Breakdown
  
  (rounded to the nearest tenth)
  
  
• Go-Ferm needed
  
  12.5 grams
  
  Water to dilute Go-Ferm
  
  250 ml
  
  
• Yeast needed
  
  10 grams
  
  
• TOTAL NUTRIENT NEEDED
  
  31.1 grams
  
  
• Each nutrient addition (4 total)
  
  7.8 grams
  

I think I will do what was suggested above and rack it into 1 gallon jugs for cold crashing, then forget about it for awhile.

 

[dwhite60]

Time. Mead makers best friend.

Like someone else, or two, said, rack it into something(s) where it will get a minimum amount of air exposure and just let it sit. Might take a month, might take twelve months but it will improve and quite a lot too.

Works out to a starting gravity of 1.114, that should be about 15% ABV. It's going to need some time to age in anyway.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[beer-me-now]

I agree that aging will help but I would absolutely stabilize and add back some of the flavor you want before bulk aging. Once the yeast is "dead" warm up some honey 3-5oz at a time and incorporate it into your mead, taste and add more honey until you hit the mark. Get some more tart cherry juice, incorporate it into your mead a couple oz at a time until you get the flavor back that you want. Bulk age and try it every 30 days or so. That stressed yeast or excess nutrient flavor might not age out completely but you should be able to cover it up fairly well with some sweetness and fruit flavor. If it ends up too sweet before you hide the off flavors you can always mix and dilute with your next plain batch, just use a more forgiving and quick yeast like 1388 or CBC1 with the BOMM schedule next time.

 

[beer-me-now]

Oh yeah, Styrofoam cooler (lid doesn't need to close), a couple frozen water bottles and a stick on thermometer from the aquarium section is super simple temp control for hot weather, not precise but way better than nothing.

 

[Redeemer]

I agree that aging will help but I would absolutely stabilize and add back some of the flavor you want before bulk aging. Once the yeast is "dead" warm up some honey 3-5oz at a time and incorporate it into your mead, taste and add more honey until you hit the mark. Get some more tart cherry juice, incorporate it into your mead a couple oz at a time until you get the flavor back that you want. Bulk age and try it every 30 days or so. That stressed yeast or excess nutrient flavor might not age out completely but you should be able to cover it up fairly well with some sweetness and fruit flavor. If it ends up too sweet before you hide the off flavors you can always mix and dilute with your next plain batch, just use a more forgiving and quick yeast like 1388 or CBC1 with the BOMM schedule next time.

CBC 1 is good stuff. I have a batch going with it right now. So is 1388 but not for this application.

In any case I wanted to give a little update. I am racking it again, right now in fact. I sampled some and most of that nutrient / DAP / Piss flavor is gone. I suspect he rest will age out. Phenolics are still present but not as pronounced. I expect in 6 months or so, this will be almost drinkable. That makes me happy because I felt like dumping the batch.

There is definitely a lesson here. I've made many tasty beers, and even the ones I wasn't pleased with were drinkable. I've made many great ciders and variations, and more than one tasty mead. But when you have success, you get complacent, and overlook stuff and get hung up, forgetting fundamentals and this is what happened. I did this to myself. I will be able to come back from it, but, lesson learned.

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[dwhite60]

NEVER dump a mead before you've given it a year. Seriously.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[TattooedViking9]

I just want to say how proud I am to be a member of such a group as this! You folks are truly here to help people learn, grow and prosper in their craft! My hat is off to all you glorious people and may the Gods favor your practices to the point of becoming
Household names spoken for generations! Hail to you all and thank you for sharing your thoughts and wisdom with any who ask!