WLP 029, ale temp then lager?

[drathbone]

I made a kolsch using WLP 029. I've got it fermenting right now low to mid 60's, coming on the 1 week mark. Can this yeast handle lager temps? I read from WL it "doesn't perform well under 62, unless during active fermentation" so I imagine it will. Could I just rack to a keg as a secondary after 4 weeks, then put my chest freezer down to 45 and wait a week or 2 before priming?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Lagering (cold conditioning) is usually done between 30 and 35 degrees. You can do that with any yeast.
Koelsch yeast won't ferment very well (or at all) at typical lager fermentation temps. Upper 50s is ok, but most lagers are fermented in the 45-55 range before cold conditioning.

 

[drathbone]

Lagering (cold conditioning) is usually done between 30 and 35 degrees. You can do that with any yeast.
Koelsch yeast won't ferment very well (or at all) at typical lager fermentation temps. Upper 50s is ok, but most lagers are fermented in the 45-55 range before cold conditioning.

Perhaps I had my information wrong or I'm confused with your wording. My understanding was that lagering was fermentation at lower temps, sub 60ish which produces crisper, cleaner flavors when using a yeast that can handle the temp. Cold condition was just for clearing yeast and proteins in suspension without the use of fining agents. In other words, lager and cold condition are not synonymous and are different processes. You said "Lagering (cold conditioning) is usually done between 30 and 35" then said most lagers are done at 45-55.

Perhaps I should rack to keg at 2 weeks instead of 4 then put down to lager temps (45ish) for 2-3 weeks since this should still be during active fermentation? Anybody have experience with WLP 029?

 

[paraordnance]

Perhaps I had my information wrong or I'm confused with your wording. My understanding was that lagering was fermentation at lower temps, sub 60ish which produces crisper, cleaner flavors when using a yeast that can handle the temp. Cold condition was just for clearing yeast and proteins in suspension without the use of fining agents. In other words, lager and cold condition are not synonymous and are different processes. You said "Lagering (cold conditioning) is usually done between 30 and 35" then said most lagers are done at 45-55.

Perhaps I should rack to keg at 2 weeks instead of 4 then put down to lager temps (45ish) for 2-3 weeks since this should still be during active fermentation? Anybody have experience with WLP 029?

Lagers fermented @ 45-55F and then lagered below 35F for few weeks. I would just leave your Kolsch with WLP029 to ferment out completely (2-3 weeks atleast) at no lower than 62F and then once its finished transfer to secondary/keg and lager away at whatever temperature you prefer. WLP029 will not ferment around 45ish, it will stall for sure. Never move your beer to other vessel if its not done fermenting.
I have APA fermenting with WLP029 and its slow to finish (on 3rd week now) at mid-60s. There is still movement in carboy

 

[cheier]

Lagering (cold conditioning) is usually done between 30 and 35 degrees. You can do that with any yeast.

I will put a caveat on this... make absolutely sure the yeast is done fermenting and cleaning up after itself. I had a good tasting beer that I decided to drop to 35F too soon and it started to develop tart flavours. This was with a belgian yeast strain (WLP500 or something). There are a bunch of ales that I've lagered, and I've found that the process is generally fine for the most part.

 

[beerlackey]

Wyeast Kolsch 2565 will ferment in mid 50's and it says so on their web page; WLP Kolsch 029 may or may not ferment that low and they publish 65-69°F on their web.

I have made several batches with Wyeast Kolsch fermented at 56-57 (Kolsch, American Wheat, and an APA's) and they all turned out well, just be sure to use an appropriate size starter. The one batch I made with WLP 029 I fermented at 65 and it was more fruity and not as clean in my opinion. When done fermenting, this yeast needs to be cold conditioned - (32-40 degrees) the lower the better for several weeks (2-4) to clear up the yeast in suspension. When it drops clear, you will have a very nice light/lager like beer.

 

[ArcaneXor]

The confusion arises from the terminology. Lagering is an americanized version of "lagern", which is German for "storing", and derives from storing beer in cold caves during maturation. Lager yeast is a different species of yeast than ale yeast.

So in making a lager, two things are involved: Fermenting with a lager yeast (usually between 45-55 degrees), and then cold conditioning the beer close to freezing (this is the actual lagering).

Any ale can be cold conditioned (lagered). Sometimes cold-conditioned ales are called "hybrids". They are never true lagers, however, because they are still fermented warm with a different species of yeast.

So, in your mind, when you hear "lager yeast", think "saccharomyces pastorianus" (ales use saccharomyces cerevisiae) or "bottom-fermenting yeast", and when you hear lagering, think "cold conditioning"

 

[drathbone]

Thanks Arcane, that does clear it up a bit.

Also, thanks everybody else for the input. My plan is to let it ferment out (3weeks min). Rack to keg and cold crash at around 35 degrees for a few weeks before priming/serving. Or can I prime (force carb in keg) at the same time while cold crashing/conditioning?