Wit Gooo??

[Fuzzy-Q]

My buddy did up a Belgian Wit and after 14 days in primary, we went to bottle. When racking to the bottling bucket we noticed near the end that the colour of the beer had changed and stopped racking. About a gallon of thick jelly like substance was at the bottom. I have never seen this in the half dozen brews I have done. We sampled the beer before racking to the bucket and it tasted just fine. Any thoughts on what this may have been.

7.2# Liquid malt
.5# Oats
.5# Flaked wheat
1# Honey
1# Bitter Orange Peel
Styrian Golding and Spalt Hops
WLP400 Belgian Wit Yeast. Pitched about 75 deg.
Ambiant air temp was about 68 and active fermentation within 12 hrs.

 

[Double_D]

There's a wild yeast that causes ropiness but I can't remember what it's called. Maybe this is the begining form and hasn't developed in the rest of the beer? Anyone know what I'm trying to say?

 

[Nateo]

I would guess that's wheat starch. Museums use wheat starch as a glue. Since you didn't mash the grain, there wasn't anything to break down the starches.

 

[Vance71975]

Looks like yeast sludge and trub to me, that is what ALL my beers have looked like in the bottom, and i have only had one that wasn't drinkable or better!

 

[Double_D]

There might be enough starch in a half pound of wheat to thicken about a gallon.

 

[onthekeg]

I would guess that's wheat starch. Museums use wheat starch as a glue. Since you didn't mash the grain, there wasn't anything to break down the starches.

+1. Since you used flaked wheat and oats there weren't any enzymes to convert the starch to sugar. If you wanted to play, add half a beano tab or alphaamalyse enzyme to the sluge and a gallon of water. It will convert it, probably not very tasty though. Next time use malted wheat.

 

[Fuzzy-Q]

The oats and wheat were "mashed" for thirty mins @ 154. Longer next time? That may be it.
60 min boil.
I always have trub and yeast in the bottom, but never a gallon and never gooey like this.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Double_D]

Was it malted wheat? I think the flaked stuff isn't malted just cooked and rolled so it's easier to use. There might not have been any enzyme to break starch down during the "mash"

 

[Nateo]

The oats and wheat were "mashed" for thirty mins @ 154. Longer next time? That may be it.
60 min boil.
I always have trub and yeast in the bottom, but never a gallon and never gooey like this.

Thanks for the feedback.

There are no enzymes in raw oats or unmalted wheat. Steeping them in 154* water will make glue, not wort.

You need to have malted grains in your mash to have any enzymes that will break down starch.

 

[Vance71975]

There are no enzymes in raw oats or unmalted wheat. Steeping them in 154* water will make glue, not wort.

You need to have malted grains in your mash to have any enzymes that will break down starch.

+1 Next time add 1lb of 6 row to your steep mixture and you will notice a serious texture difference.

 

[Nateo]

The weighted average of diastatic power needs to be north of 50. I don't think 6-row is necessary. Most N. American 2-row has around 150 DP. So for a pound of wheat and oats, you could use as little as 1/2lb of 2-row to get conversion.

 

[Double_D]

The weighted average of diastatic power needs to be north of 50. I don't think 6-row is necessary. Most N. American 2-row has around 150 DP. So for a pound of wheat and oats, you could use as little as 1/2lb of 2-row to get conversion.

Would you mind getting a little deeper into this?

 

[Fuzzy-Q]

@ Nateo. I just did some follow reading about what you were saying and reviewed the instructions provided with the recipe. SO, with no other grains to provide enzymatic breakdown, how would the wheat and oats best be utilized. The instructions called for "mashing/steeping".....bad recipe/instructions I guess.

Thanks

 

[Vance71975]

The weighted average of diastatic power needs to be north of 50. I don't think 6-row is necessary. Most N. American 2-row has around 150 DP. So for a pound of wheat and oats, you could use as little as 1/2lb of 2-row to get conversion.

Ya i just love 6-row lol.

 

[Nateo]

You'll need a typical malt analysis of your base malt. The content and quality of those reports varies from in-depth to cursory, but they always give you color, DP, extract, and some measure of how modified it is. These sheets usually come stapled to your bag of grain. If you buy from a LHBS, they should be able to provide you with the malt analysis.

Diastatic Power is measured in degrees Lintner, and is a measure of how much enzyme the malt has per unit of weight.

I've seen a few numbers thrown around, but it's generally said that your mash needs to have 35-40* of DP to get complete conversion of the starches. I round up to 50 only because I feel better when I have an extra margin of safety. The bare minimum would be 35*.

So you know the DP of your oats and wheat malt. They are 0.

[(weight of malt1 x DP of malt1) +(weight2 x DP2) + (weight3 x DP3)] / (weight1 + weight2 + weight3)

So plugging in some number:
(0.5lbs x 0DP) + (0.5lbs x 0DP) + (0.5lbs x 150DP) / (0.5+0.5+0.5)
= 75lbsDP / 1.5lbs
= 50DP

Here's a link to how to read and understand a malt analysis:
http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html

 

[Nateo]

@ Nateo. I just did some follow reading about what you were saying and reviewed the instructions provided with the recipe. SO, with no other grains to provide enzymatic breakdown, how would the wheat and oats best be utilized. The instructions called for "mashing/steeping".....bad recipe/instructions I guess.

Thanks

I would never steep raw grains without malted grains.

You can safely steep crystal malt and roasted grains. They are fully converted and require no enzymes.

Next time I would just skip the oats and wheat, or you could do a mini-mash with some base malt. But you can make an awesome wheat beer with just wheat malt extract, no steeping grains required.

 

[Nateo]

In practice, DP is almost never an issue, for most beers, most of the time. N. American malt has so many enzymes conversion usually happens very quickly, in <20min.

You should be concerned with DP if you are using low DP Continental or British malts, like any brand of Maris Otter, or Castle, Weyermann, etc. Munich malt is usually really low in DP.

You should also be concerned about DP when using a lot of adjuncts, like making a Wit with 70% raw wheat, or if you're pretending to be Bud/Miller/Coors and using a lot of rice and corn. Or, if like the OP, you're doing a minimash with unmalted adjuncts.