Will this make a decent beer?? Help please, very open to suggestions!

[dawn_kiebawls]

Hey guys and gals, I've got a batch of fresh bottles doin' their thing and I'm stuck with nothing to do myself! I want to get brewing again pretty soon but instead of running out and buying another extract kit, I would like to try something more personalized. My target style for this frankenbeer is like a very hoppy saison x floraly/citrusy IPA and still achieve close to a 7% ABV. I have looked at a few posted AG saison recipes on here and tweaked some of the hops. Here is what I've 'created', how do you all (who know much more than I do) think it would turn out?

7lbs Pilsen DME
.75lbs White Wheat
.5lbs Caramel/Crystal 30L
.5lbs CaraMunich
.5lbs Flaked Oats
1.5lbs Honey (to be added 5 minutes before flameout)

Hop (Pellet) Schedule

1oz Fuggle 60 min
1oz Cascade 30 min
.5oz Galena 15 min
.5oz Galena 15 min
.5oz Glacier 15 min

I'm planning to use WLP644 because of its high temperature tolerance.

I imagine brew day would go about like this:
Bring 3 gallons of distilled water to 155-160 degrees and steep specialty grains. Bring to a gentle boil and add 7lbs of DME, stir in and add 1oz fuggle and boil for 30 minutes, add 1oz Cascade boil for 15, then add .5oz each Cascade, Galena, Glacier. Add Honey with 5 minutes before flameout. Cool wort, top off to 5 gallons with distilled water rand pitch in my starter at about 65 degrees. (I've never made or used a starter and I'm stoked!)

I know this will make beer, but will it make what I have in mind? Bright, floral, citrus hoppy saison-esque brew? Since I am new to all of this I am quite open to any and all criticism, opinions, thoughts or suggestions. Thanks for your read!

I based this recipe off of a post I found on HBT:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=254684

 

[TANSTAAFB]

The wheat and oats need to be mashed, not steeped like crystal malt. Bring your water to about 155 and stir in all the grains. Keep it between 147 and 154 for at least 30 minutes. While malted wheat can convert itself you might want to toss in a pound of 2 row to help conversion. Then add half your DME, go through your hop additions, and add the rest of your DME at about 10 minutes. Then proceed as planned. A little yeast nutrient is cheap insurance. At the very least shake the **** out of it to aerate, oxygen is better.

 

[Braufessor]

Personally, I would probably not use the 1/2 pound of cara munich. Just seems like you are going to end up with a bit more caramel/crystal in it than you might want for "citrusy/bright/floral".... Otherwise, I think it looks good.

 

[kh54s10]

In addition to the previous, I would use the Galena to bitter the beer.

You will have to use a calculator to determine the IBUs

I would guess something like this.
.5 oz Galena 60 minutes.
1 oz. Fuggle 10 minutes
.5 oz. Glacier 10 minutes
1 oz. Cascade 5 minutes.

If you are looking for an IPA get some more hops. Add a little in the boil then 2-6 ounces for a dry hop.

If you are looking for floral/citrus. I would use something instead of the Fuggle. It is described as earthy, not floral or citrus.

 

[Braufessor]

In addition to the previous, I would use the Galena to bitter the beer.

You will have to use a calculator to determine the IBUs

I would guess something like this.
.5 oz Galena 60 minutes.
1 oz. Fuggle 10 minutes
.5 oz. Glacier 10 minutes
1 oz. Cascade 5 minutes.

If you are looking for an IPA get some more hops. Add a little in the boil then 2-6 ounces for a dry hop.

If you are looking for floral/citrus. I would use something instead of the Fuggle. It is described as earthy, not floral or citrus.

Yes.... I missed this^^^^, but I agree.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

The wheat and oats need to be mashed, not steeped like crystal malt. Bring your water to about 155 and stir in all the grains. Keep it between 147 and 154 for at least 30 minutes. While malted wheat can convert itself you might want to toss in a pound of 2 row to help conversion.

Since I have never mashed I have some very basic questions, which is making me wonder if this recipe is a little out of my league..In order to mash the wheat, oats and 2 row if I add that in, do they all need to be milled? Also, you say to stir them in. Should they be left loose in my kettle during boil and sit in the fermenter as part of the trub? Unless I were to put them in a steeping sock I don't have any way to remove them from the wort. I always thought mashing temps were down in the 130 range, am I misunderstanding something? I will also make the alterations to the hops. Cant wait!

Thank you for your help on this, I am very eager to get brewing again!

 

[Braufessor]

Since I have never mashed I have some very basic questions, which is making me wonder if this recipe is a little out of my league..In order to mash the wheat, oats and 2 row if I add that in, do they all need to be milled? Also, you say to stir them in. Should they be left loose in my kettle during boil and sit in the fermenter as part of the trub? Unless I were to put them in a steeping sock I don't have any way to remove them from the wort. I always thought mashing temps were down in the 130 range, am I misunderstanding something? I will also make the alterations to the hops. Cant wait!

Thank you for your help on this, I am very eager to get brewing again!

* The flaked grains do not need to be milled. However, all other grains you use (mashing or steeping) need to be milled.
*No - they should not be left in the kettle. You should put them in some kind of grain bag (of appropriate size for the quantity of grain you are using). The grain should not be crammed in a small sock like a sausage.... it should have room to be lose, expand and move.
*Mashing temps are basically in the 147-157 range.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

In addition to the previous, I would use the Galena to bitter the beer.

You will have to use a calculator to determine the IBUs

I would guess something like this.
.5 oz Galena 60 minutes.
1 oz. Fuggle 10 minutes
.5 oz. Glacier 10 minutes
1 oz. Cascade 5 minutes.

If you are looking for an IPA get some more hops. Add a little in the boil then 2-6 ounces for a dry hop.

If you are looking for floral/citrus. I would use something instead of the Fuggle. It is described as earthy, not floral or citrus.

I don't know that I'm going for a true IPA but I do want a hop forward, aromatic brew. I'll definitely sub out the fuggle at bittering, thanks for that heads up! As the recipe is now it has 3.5oz of hops scheduled. Do you think that is enough? I'm also going to do a 2 or 3 part dry hop with whole hops.

Braufessor suggested not using the caramunich. Is there a good substitution for the cara or should I just omit it entirely?

Thanks for the help, everyone!

 

[GrimBrewer]

Caramunich 1 is similar crystal 20 and caramunich 2 to crystal 40.
Most guys here prefer to have under 10% of crystal malts for APAs, specially in a IPA. Since you already have crystal 30 the caramunich becomes redundant in that case.

Unless you want a "sweeter" ale, go for a higher % crystal. But then probably better to stick to the American side, just use crystals or the European side, just caramunich 1 and 2.

If you want taste the honey at all, then you should add it after flameout.
When the wort is still over 80c it will still pasteurize the honey. If you add it to the boil all the honey flavors will boil off and you will only be left with fermentable sugars.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I agree with the hop schedule kh54 posted. That's going to be a good way to get some citrus/floral flavor and aroma, along with a healthy dry hop. 30 and 15 min hop additions are sort of...unnecessary if get most of your bitterness from your 60 min addition.

Also, on the honey. I've added it a few times, always at flameout. If you are looking for a sort of honey sweetness though, I would suggest adding a little honey malt to your steeping grains. The honey itself won't really give honey flavor.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

What you are proposing is a partial mash and it's super easy! Check this out...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=75231
After following Death Brewer's instructions for 2 brews I jumped into all grain about 7 years ago and never looked back!

 

[Lynchy217]

It seems to me that for what you're looking for, you probably want closer to 6 oz of hops. I would throw in an additional 2.5 or so at flameout and call it good. I also agree that it seems like a bit more cara than you would be looking for as well.