Why is my Stout Getting Flat?

[Clint Yeastwood]

I have a pretty old keg of stout that isn't quite empty, and I have a Kegworks faucet on it. I have had it at 32 psi on beer gas for months. It was always fine until recently. I didn't have any stout for weeks, and then I drew a glass. It was a little flatter than it should have been, and it seems like it really shoots out of the faucet.

Should I just crank up the psi? Is the problem that 32 is too low?

As I recall, this beer was too carbonated at the start, and it took a while to settle. Then it stayed the same for months.

 

[VikeMan]

I have a pretty old keg of stout that isn't quite empty, and I have a Kegworks faucet on it. I have had it at 32 psi on beer gas for months. It was always fine until recently. I didn't have any stout for weeks, and then I drew a glass. It was a little flatter than it should have been, and it seems like it really shoots out of the faucet.

If the beer is really being pushed by 32 PSI, that would explain it shooting out of the faucet. 32 PSI is much too high for serving, unless you have a really long beer line.

Should I just crank up the psi? Is the problem that 32 is too low?

What's the temperature of the beer? At 40F for example, 32 PSI would yield about 4.3 volumes of CO2 at equilibrium, which is very high for a stout (and most styles).

If the beer seems flat as you say, either you're losing a lot of CO2 as the beer shoots into the glass, or the beer hasn't really been sitting at 32 PSI, i.e. perhaps your low pressure gauge isn't accurate, and the real pressure is lower. Hard to guess just from the description of "shoots out," but if I had to, I'd guess you're losing significant CO2 during the pour.

 

[day_trippr]

If the beer is really being pushed by 32 PSI, that would explain it shooting out of the faucet. 32 PSI is much too high for serving, unless you have a really long beer line.

fwiw, if the OP has an actual stout faucet, 32 psi is in the ball park.

I run 30 psi through my Micromatic stout faucet which came with a restrictor plate stamped with "30" - which is the recommended pressure.
And the line to my stout faucet is of minimal length to make the trip. You don't want to put restriction in front of an actual stout faucet as it can be counter-productive.

Also, beer gas /= CO2...

Cheers!

 

[VikeMan]

^ I glossed over the words "beer gas." If @Clint Yeastwood means a CO2/Nitro mix, ignore pretty much everything I said in post #2.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It has always come out of the faucet pretty quickly. I'm checking Youtube videos of other faucets. Now that I compare, it seems fast but not too far off.

The beer is kept at 38. The Inkbird is set at 35, but the thermometer reads about 38. I know stout should be warmer, but I have 5 beers in the keezer.

This setup gave me perfect carbonation for months, so I'm thinking maybe I overcarbonated at first, and it finally settled.

Maybe I'm just using the faucet wrong because I went so long without a stout. I just pulled a stout yanking the handle all the way forward, as suggested in videos, and it seems a lot better, although still a tiny bit flatter than I like.

I can never remember how these things work. Will failing to pull the handle forward drive CO2 out of the beer?

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

"Beer gas" is CO2 and nitrogen. From a draft beer site: "Beer Gas is a mixture of C02 and Nitrogen gases used to propel beer. Used in a beer system while keeping beer in equilibrium."

 

[day_trippr]

I remember your first pour from your stout. It was definitely carbonated higher than I do - I try to stay around 1.2 volumes on straight CO2 before putting it on 70/30 beer gas.

I don't have a rational answer for your current predicament, however. I get consistent pours on my stout 'til the keg kicks and I can't come up with anything that would change that assuming all inputs are static...

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I'm going up to 35.

 

[VikeMan]

I'm going up to 35.

At 38F and 32 PSIG of 75/25 mix, equilibrium is at ~1.13 volumes of CO2. Bumping up to 35 PSIG gets you to a hair under 1.2 volumes. Not really a lot of difference, but maybe it'll do the trick if you really need a little more carbonation.

Maybe I'm just using the faucet wrong because I went so long without a stout. I just pulled a stout yanking the handle all the way forward, as suggested in videos, and it seems a lot better, although still a tiny bit flatter than I like.

I can never remember how these things work. Will failing to pull the handle forward drive CO2 out of the beer?

Any faucet (stout or otherwise) should be pulled fully forward.

 

[day_trippr]

Any faucet (stout or otherwise) should be pulled fully forward.

Well...maybe not. This may be unique to the Micromatic stout faucet:

USAGE TIP: DO NOT pull faucet handle more than 45 degrees when pouring. Doing so will cause the internal diaphragm to fail and result in a permanent leak. For a leaking faucet, order replacement diaphragm, part number MM100-268 for repair.

This is the internal diaphragm:

I never noticed that advisement, and after a few years of fully opening the stout faucet (handle went 90° from resting position) I managed to split the original diaphragm at the arrow. Very exciting - stout suddenly was spewing out of the top of the faucet. I called for The Spousal Unit to bring towels - STAT!! - while I realized I had to crack open the keezer lid, reach inside quite blindly, and pop the beer QD off the stout keg by feel alone. Miraculously in retrospect I only had a quart or so of stout all over the place, fun to clean up

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Who makes a stout faucet with a handle you can pull forward 90 degrees, with a diaphragm that rips when you do it? That's amazingly bad engineering.

Guess I know which faucet NOT to get, if I get tired of the one I have.

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, while it works really well I've not recommended it for that reason. I bought it because at the time it was the only faucet that was all stainless (save for the plastic spout) that also had repair parts support. After the diaphragm failure drama I had planned on replacing it with a conventional plunger-operated model but let that slip for awhile now.

Now that this thread reminded me, I've ordered a Taprite SF2003, which is fully stainless and well supported...

Cheers!

 

[camonick]

Will failing to pull the handle forward drive CO2 out of the beer?

A stout faucet is designed to “strip” the CO2 out as it’s poured. That’s what creates the fine cascading pour. A “Guinness” or “2-part” pour is the trade mark of a nitro stout. You tilt the glass at ≈45°, pull the faucet handle almost all the way open and fill the glass about 80% full. Let the cascade completely settle, which could take upwards of 2 minutes, then slightly pull the handle forward to top off the glass. Nitro Draught beer should have very little perceptible CO2 when consumed. A “carbonated” stout should be served on straight CO2 through a standard faucet.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Until yesterday, I just yanked the handle however I wanted, and the stout came out perfect. No settling period between pours. None of that. I poured it in maybe 10 seconds, and then it settled on its own.

My question is, do you get more CO2 in the glass when you pull the handle all the way, or less?

 

[Bobby_M]

I didn't read every word in the thread, but are you sure you have 75/25 beer mix? If it's straight nitrogen, I'd expect the beer to flatten slightly with every pint poured. Even if you asked for beer mix, it's possible you got 100% nitro. The other thing to check is if the tank still weighs anything above tare weight. If it's at tare weight and still has pressure in the tank, there's no liquid CO2 left in there (or in the case of pure Nitro, it wasn't there to begin with).

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

No idea what's happening, but the beer is much better at 35 now.

I've been using 9-ounce glasses made to look like pub pints. You have to be careful about yanking the handle all the way because the glasses are so short. The tip of the faucet has to be pretty far down in the glass.

I don't weigh my tanks. I will have to read up on that.

 

[rawlus]

a dry stout on nitro will be creamy and flat with little to no carbonation feel on the tongue…. if you want more of a carbonation mouthfeel switch to CO2 only gas and a standard faucet. the restrictor plate in a stout faucet serves to effectively force CO2 out of suspension when pouring. the routine of pouring a stout on nitro (partial pour, letting it fully settle and then topping with the remaining amount and a cap of creamy dense tan foam that lasts a long time) is intentional to the style.

maybe watch a few guinness pour videos and try the original technique to see if it changes your impression of the final result, it seems like you may be using the stout faucet similar to the way you pour ales from a standard faucet. or order a guinness from a proper bar who knows how to pour and watch their technique and sample the product to see if it’s to your liking.