Why is my porter wimpy?

[Stovepipe]

Hey, Folks:

So, I love porter more than any other style, and I'm on a quest to brew the Perfect Porter (I have in mind something like a Taddy Porter, Anchor Porter, or Eel River). I've been getting closer and closer, and with this new batch, I thought I might have done it. Initially, it has the rich coffee/chocolate taste that I'm looking for, but then it dies on the palate almost immediately. There's almost no body. It's just...lame.

It was a partial mash, and here's the grain bill:

1lbs Black
1lbs chocolate
.5 lbs special B
1 lbs Cara
.5 lbs brown
3lbs 2 row
All the above mashed at 154-155 for 1 hour with 10.5 quarts.
Sparged with 10.5 quarts at 170

added 3 lbs dark dme, boiled for an hour, added hops along the way, etc.

Bottled with wyeast 1099 Whitbread.

Conditioned for 5 weeks now.

Any thoughts? I'm disappointed.

 

[Sithdad]

I've been trying to come up with a great porter recipe as well. My first attempt was thin and lacking that chocolate/coffee flavor that I really enjoy in a good porter. In my latest attempt I mashed at 158 and I used some flaked barley as well. Pitched S-04 and when I bottled it I drank the entire hydro sample (it was that good). I think I've really hit it this time.
I would suggest some flaked barley (mine was 10% of the grist) and mash at a higher temp (mine was 158 for 60'). Hope that helps.

 

[bigljd]

What was the starting and final gravity?

 

[elvestinkle]

Hey, Folks:

So, I love porter more than any other style, and I'm on a quest to brew the Perfect Porter (I have in mind something like a Taddy Porter, Anchor Porter, or Eel River). I've been getting closer and closer, and with this new batch, I thought I might have done it. Initially, it has the rich coffee/chocolate taste that I'm looking for, but then it dies on the palate almost immediately. There's almost no body. It's just...lame.

[...snip recipe...]

Any thoughts? I'm disappointed.

I have a similar recipe to that...love the Special B. I recommend subbing Maris Otter for the US 2-row; I can say, having brewed it about 4 times in the last year with each, that the Maris Otter adds some beefiness to the palate that the 2-row just doesn't provide. I also went with 1028 London Ale, but I don't know from Whitbread to say.

I'll swap ye when I get my next batch cooked up & we can compare notes

 

[elvestinkle]

I've been trying to come up with a great porter recipe as well. My first attempt was thin and lacking that chocolate/coffee flavor that I really enjoy in a good porter. In my latest attempt I mashed at 158 and I used some flaked barley as well. Pitched S-04 and when I bottled it I drank the entire hydro sample (it was that good). I think I've really hit it this time.
I would suggest some flaked barley (mine was 10% of the grist) and mash at a higher temp (mine was 158 for 60'). Hope that helps.

Oatmeal is also a huge body-booster (I use it at 10% too). I like to think that my porter is tastier than Highland's, but there might be some bias in there. ;-)

 

[RM-MN]

You are just impatient if you are sampling it at 5 weeks. Expect the body to fill out much better at about 10 to 12 weeks.

 

[KAMMEE]

Carbonation can also have a drying effect, if its highly carbonated you can try shaking out some of the carbonation before you drink it.

 

[Stovepipe]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses.

@biglgd: I'm at work now, but when I get home to my brew journal I'll post the SG and OG. They were in the right ballpark for the clone Taddy Porter recipe I have, IIRK

@RM-MN: Yeah, though I've been brewing for, oh, 7 years now, I feel like I'm just starting to really figure some things out, and conditioning time is one of them. My sense is that the darker/hoppier/more-stuff-in-'em beers need longer to condition...but I had no idea 10-12 weeks was the range. Good to know.

And thanks, everyone else, for the thoughts on grains/oatmeal, etc. The specialty grains I've been using really get me the flavor profile I want, maybe some oatmeal or Maris Otter or flaked barley.

On a related note, is there any danger of mashing at too high a temp?

 

[Clementine]

I was just on the AG fourm discussing a similar problem with my Pale Ale. Since Malt is the dominate flavor my problem is noticed on the first sip until the bitterness takes over your palate. Anyway the consensus was mash higher, also insulate better. I noticed that my mash is a lot cooler near the edges of the mash tun. I really noticed my FG was way low and that was the clue to my problem (suspected problem we will see with the next batch).

So depending on how you have you kit set up before you go chasing an illusive recipe make sure your mashing at the right temps through out your mash.

Clem

 

[Stovepipe]

Hey, Clem:

Thanks for this! I've got one of those round Igloo cooler tuns, and I dump really hot water into it first, to heat it up. It barely loses any temp at all during the mash...BUT I never thought to check the temp of the mash nearest the sidewalls. My thermometer was always in the middle. I'll definitely pay attention to this next time.

 

[wickman6]

Have you considered another recipe altogether? I only ask because I recently brewed a wonderful porter, though I cannot take credit for the recipe.

I used the Edmund Fitzgerald Clone in BYO Clone Recipes Special Issue, and it is hands down the best beer I have made to date.

Perfect balance of coffee, chocolate as well as hops and malt (all my opinion of course!)

It has a wonderful full body, and the flavor sticks around for a bit.

If you haven't already tried it, I highly recommend you give it a shot.

I'm at work so I can't post my notes but if you are interested I could do so later.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Gduck]

I second the use of Maris Otter, especially if going for something like a Taddy. It will give more character than you'll get from most American 2 row grains.

Mashing higher (up to a point) will give more unfermentables thus boosting body. Be careful ramping that mash up, you start crossing 160 and you're going to begin to denature a lot of the enzymes responsible for converting startches and you'll end up with low gravity contributions from the grain.

Flaked oats can be good in a porter, good contribution to body and taste. Flaked barley will give some body as well without changing the flavor profile much. Carapils can add some unfermentables that will help boost up body, but don't go overboard with it.

While I want argue some beers can really shone over an extended time, it's possible to make some great solid porters with good body that will be quite enjoyable in shorter period of time than 10 - 12 weeks (though they probably will continue to get better when hitting this range).

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[luke2080]

I third the use of Maris Otter.

I don't have the conversion of this to partial grain, but we did a version of the atonement brown porter that came out great on our first attempt. After 40 days, the first few tastes were a little too "coffee-ee", but another week on the carbonation and aging, it is mellowing and has a more chocolatey taste. Tastes great - the non dark beer drinkers really took after it during our last party.

15 lbs Maris Otter
5 lbs UK Brown Malt
1 lbs 3 oz black patent malt

lighlty hopped, mashed at 152.

I do think using maris otter over 2 row is a big piece here.

 

[brrman]

I use 1lb of oats as well as 6oz of MaltoDextrine in each batch. Really helps the mouthfeel. I also agree Marris Otter does add that something special.

 

[wetzie]

This is really helpful. I have been adding more priming sugar to boost the head on my porters and stouts with not much success. Would that problem be more from water conditioning or should I try ading more oats.
thanx

 

[luke2080]

Priming sugar will add more carbonation, but not actually a better head or head retention. Add some Oats and/or dextrine as brrman suggested.