Porter Help

[dotf]

Hey guys, I’ve never brewed a porter before and am trying to brew more styles in 2022. I want one that’s more on the sweet side instead of the robust or Smokey kinds out there. How does this recipe look?
The plan is
5 Gallons All Grain
8 lbs 2-Row
2 lbs Chocolate Malt
.25 lbs Crystal 60
1 lb Flaked Oats

Single infusion mash at 152 F for an hour, sparge out at 170.

60 minute boil
1 ounce Willamette at 60 minutes

US-04 yeast

Then I’m going to dump 16 ounces of Vanilla extract in it a day into primary fermentation. Let it sit for a month, and either keg or bottle it.

 

[marc1]

Hey guys, I’ve never brewed a porter before and am trying to brew more styles in 2022. I want one that’s more on the sweet side instead of the robust or Smokey kinds out there. How does this recipe look?
The plan is
5 Gallons All Grain
8 lbs 2-Row
2 lbs Chocolate Malt
.25 lbs Crystal 60
1 lb Flaked Oats

Single infusion mash at 152 F for an hour, sparge out at 170.

60 minute boil
1 ounce Willamette at 60 minutes

US-04 yeast

Then I’m going to dump 16 ounces of Vanilla extract in it a day into primary fermentation. Let it sit for a month, and either keg or bottle it.

If you want it sweeter, up the crystal.

 

[dotf]

If you want it sweeter, up the crystal.

The chocolate isn’t sweet?

 

[marc1]

The chocolate isn’t sweet?

Not at all; it's a roasted malt.

 

[camonick]

Then I’m going to dump 16 ounces of Vanilla extract in it a day into primary fermentation.

Have you used that much vanilla extract in any other recipes before? I ask, because it sounds like a BUNCH to me for a 5 gallon batch. You could add some lactose to help sweeten it too.

 

[grampamark]

I’d suggest cutting the chocolate to 1lb and increasing the C60 to 1lb. Also, I think you would benefit from using a higher AA hop for bittering, something like Magnum or Northern Brewer, at half an ounce at 60, then add the Willamette at half an ounce at around 20 min. That would give you around 28-29 IBU which on the low end of the range in the style guidelines. If you want to keep it sweeter, mash a little higher, 154-55, and/or add some lactose.

Are you sure you want to add a pint of vanilla extract at bottling? Most Vanilla Porter recipes I’ve looked at use 3-6 vanilla beans in the fermenter. 16 oz of extract is the equivalent of about a dozen beans. Plus, at current prices, a pint of extract is going to cost more than the rest of your ingredients. You can make your own with a few beans and a cup of cheap vodka.

 

[Golddiggie]

Instead of adding a pint of vanilla extract (IMO, that's insane) go for one or two split and scraped vanilla beans. I'd actually use no more than one the first time unless you want a VERY pronounced vanilla character to the brew.

Also, you might want to add some rice hulls to the mash. With a pound of flaked barley in the mash, for that batch size, you could have a sticky mash run. The rice hulls will help to prevent that.

Also look at pale chocolate malt.

 

[dotf]

Have you used that much vanilla extract in any other recipes before? I ask, because it sounds like a BUNCH to me for a 5 gallon batch. You could add some lactose to help sweeten it too.

Nope. I’ve never used Vanilla Extract. I like to go big with add ins though. Like when I make a raspberry wheat, it’s a dark red beer because I’m not about subtlety, I like big flavors. In this case, I’m not looking for a roasty flavor, I want more vanilla.

 

[marc1]

What OG are you shooting for?

 

[Golddiggie]

Nope. I’ve never used Vanilla Extract. I like to go big with add ins though. Like when I make a raspberry wheat, it’s a dark red beer because I’m not about subtlety, I like big flavors. In this case, I’m not looking for a roasty flavor, I want more vanilla.

There's "more flavor" then there's adding a pint of extract which will be ALL you'll taste. Consider this. In baked goods they use a tiny amount to get the flavor. A pint of real vanilla extract will have used at least 15-20 full size beans to make. I know because I make vanilla extract. Vanilla extract is a super concentrated liquid for the flavor.

If you drink coffee, try this experiment. Take a mug of coffee (12-16 oz mug) and put a DROP of exact into it and taste it. That will give you an idea of what you'll get. Also do NOT use the cheap stuff no matter what. It's pure crap. You really do get what you pay for there. Real/quality vanilla beans are NOT cheap.

 

[dotf]

If you want to keep it sweeter, mash a little higher, 154-55, and/or add some lactose.

Regular boil addition or mash with lactose?

So far I’ve changed the recipe and ordered some lactose and NB hops and will be reducing the chocolate and am upping the C60.

 

[camonick]

Nope. I’ve never used Vanilla Extract. I like to go big with add ins though. Like when I make a raspberry wheat, it’s a dark red beer because I’m not about subtlety, I like big flavors. In this case, I’m not looking for a roasty flavor, I want more vanilla.

Well, it’s your beer, so knock yourself out. I make a chocolate porter that only uses 16 ml of pure chocolate extract and I don’t think I’d want too much more than that.

 

[Golddiggie]

Regular boil addition or mash with lactose?

So far I’ve changed the recipe and ordered some lactose and NB hops and will be reducing the chocolate and am upping the C60.

IIRC, you use lactose either in (or at the end of) the boil or before pitching the yeast. I've never used it (never needed/wanted to). But I do know you don't put it into the mash. You could also add it right before packaging if you wanted to.

 

[dotf]

IIRC, you use lactose either in (or at the end of) the boil or before pitching the yeast. I've never used it (never needed/wanted to). But I do know you don't put it into the mash. You could also add it right before packaging if you wanted to.

Yeah I’ve used it many times in the boil for Milkshake IPA’s and some sours. I’ve never brewed a porter so I was just trying to be super clear…I’ve heard of people throwing random stuff into the mash so I figured it doesn’t hurt to ask.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yeah I’ve used it many times in the boil for Milkshake IPA’s and some sours. I’ve never brewed a porter so I was just trying to be super clear…I’ve heard of people throwing random stuff into the mash so I figured it doesn’t hurt to ask.

Only things I put into the mash are grains. Everything else is either during the boil, post boil (before cooling), into the fermenter, or into serving keg. Most of the time I'll add either hops or oak into the fermenter. My last breakfast stout batch had some maple syrup added before I pitched the yeast. Probably won't do that again.

 

[grampamark]

Here’s, what the recipe looks like in Beersmith. I’m assuming an American Porter. Note that the numbers for OG, IBU, and color are close to the middle of the ranges for the style; for an English Porter the OG should be about 10-12 points lower.


Here’s how BS explains vanilla extract when used as a spice. Note the suggested amount per 5 gal.

 

[AlexKay]

Consider Maris Otter instead of plain old 2-row. Also consider adding a pound of Munich. Everything gets better with a pound of Munich.

Agree that the chocolate malt needs to come down to one pound. Then maybe think about using half or all chocolate rye in its place. Less roastiness, which may up the perception of sweetness.

Try adding the vanilla post-fermentation. Start with a pint of beer and figure out how many milliliters gives you the taste you want; then adjust the whole batch if you like. It won’t take a pint.

 

[camonick]

Here’s how BS explains vanilla extract when used as a spice. Note the suggested amount per 5 gal.

And 1 teaspoon is approximately 5mL. Like I mention above, I use about 16mL of high quality pure chocolate extract for my porter and that seems like plenty. I really don’t think anyone could drink a beer with a full pint of extract in five gallons.

 

[grampamark]

And 1 teaspoon is approximately 5mL. Like I mention above, I use about 16mL of high quality pure chocolate extract for my porter and that seems like plenty. I really don’t think anyone could drink a beer with a full pint of extract in five gallons.

I’ve found that using highly concentrated extracts, of any flavor, in any type of cooking or baking, is a matter of “a little goes a long way”.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

If you want an authentic, classic London Porter, check out the recipe for Fullers London Porter. We got a bronze medal with this recipe.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If you want an authentic, classic London Porter, check out the recipe for Fullers London Porter. We got a bronze medal with this recipe.

After a first try at creating a Porter recipe from scratch, that was mostly a failure, my next try was heavily influenced by the Fuller's clone from this article: Brown Malt - Brew Your Own Note, that recipe is also VERY close to the English Porter recipe in the book "Brewing Classic Styles".

I found that Brown malt is a wonderful ingredient for Porters. Pale Chocolate has some similar character (though I have not used Pale Chocolate in years). 1 lb of Crisp Brown Malt in a 5 gallon batch is where I like it.

Note that "Chocolate" malt is a fairly vague term. It can vary from 350L to 500L, with many of the English maltsters being in the 500L range. I won a gold medal with a recent batch that used 450L Crisp Chocolate Malt. The beer is definitely more roasty than Fuller's, but that is what I like in a Porter.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Hey guys, I’ve never brewed a porter before and am trying to brew more styles in 2022. I want one that’s more on the sweet side instead of the robust or Smokey kinds out there. How does this recipe look?

If you want an authentic, classic London Porter, check out the recipe for Fullers London Porter. We got a bronze medal with this recipe.

^Fuller's London Porter is one of the benchmark English Porters of the world. It is the number 1 ranked English Porter on BeerAdvocate and has the sweetness you are targeting.

The great beers of the world usually have fairly simple recipes. To make great Porter you don't need vanilla, peanut butter, pecans, chocolate, lactose, bourbon, or adjuncts, which in my opinion makes for great cake but not beer (sorry about the snarkiness). Brown malt and Chocolate malt bring a lot of complexity all by themselves.

The BYO recipe mentioned above is a very good one and differs from Graham Wheeler's and the supposed brew log from Fuller's in that the amount of Chocolate Malt is in the 5% range rather than 2%.

The supposed brew log/Graham Wheeler recipe is approximately...

OG 1.053
IBU 35
ABV 5.4
SRM - ?

75% Pale Malt
12% Brown Malt
10% Crystal Malt (not sure if 60L or 75L, I make mine with Crisp 77L)
2% Chocolate Malt (300-350L range)

Hopping is simple, Fuggle at 60 mins and ~.5 oz @ 15 mins to hit an IBU of 35ish.

Note, the SRM of using the 2% Pale Chocolate malt leads to ~20 SRM which is at the bottom of the Brown Porter scale. I have not found any information that confirms the actual Fuller's London Porter SRM and if darker than 20, how it is achieved. Using a darker and/or more Chocolate malt ups the SRM but also ups the roastiness which may not be appropriate for the clone.

Also, one important but seldom mentioned consideration if using Maris Otter as your base malt. Maris Otter has low diastatic power. Crisp's is only 50 L. If you use Maris Otter, a longer mash may be required to convert the Brown malt. Alternatively, you could add a little good ole American 2-Row to boost the diastatic power of the mash.

Coincidently, my next brew is a London Porter clone. Recipe below...

 

[tracer bullet]

75% Pale Malt
12% Brown Malt
10% Crystal Malt (not sure if 60L or 75L, I make mine with Crisp 77L)
2% Chocolate Malt (300-350L range)

This would be a much better recipe than the one in the 1st post. The 1st post will make a dark beer but it won't be wonderful at all - quite heavy on the chocolate (meaning - too heavy), light on the caramel, and 16 oz of vanilla extract will taste like crap. It won't be super chocolate / vanilla, honestly it'll just be bad.

Start with this recipe as a porter and go from there. Or even better, go find a bottle or 6-pack of it and try it, and see if it's not what you are after. Feel free to tweak of course, it's what we all do. But not so extremely.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

75% Pale Malt
12% Brown Malt
10% Crystal Malt (not sure if 60L or 75L, I make mine with Crisp 77L)
2% Chocolate Malt (300-350L range)

I could see that being a closer fit to what most English Porters taste like. My last few batches have been 74% English Pale Ale (Maris Otter), 10% Brown Malt, 10% Crystal 40/50, and 6% Chocolate 450L. I really like the beer, but I think to do better in competitions as an English Porter I need to lower the Chocolate Malt. A darker Crystal would boost the dark fruit/raisin character that I often get in English Porters.

I fell in love with WLP013 English Ale as my go to yeast for similar styles. There are other good English yeasts, and lots of people like S-04. I am getting more into using dry yeast these days, and I want to try a batch with Lallemand Verdant.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Nope. I’ve never used Vanilla Extract. I like to go big with add ins though. Like when I make a raspberry wheat, it’s a dark red beer because I’m not about subtlety, I like big flavors. In this case, I’m not looking for a roasty flavor, I want more vanilla.

Too much vanilla extract could taste awful. Anytime one adds extract for flavoring it is best to add small amounts then taste, even if you want it to be the star, because once it’s in you cannot take it out.

 

[tracer bullet]

One of my favorite porter recipes came form this site. It's not necessarily an answer to the original post, but I'll put it out there for consideration. If anyone loves them and hasn't tried it, I highly recommend it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...old-medals-2nd-place-bos.683809/#post-8955343

Too much vanilla extract could taste awful. Anytime one adds extract for flavoring it is best to add small amounts then taste, even if you want it to be the star, because once it’s in you cannot take it out.

Agreed. In fact I'd go so far as to recommend putting a few drops into a glass with a pipette and then pouring the beer on top of it, find out what one considers to be too little or too much. I kind of guarantee it won't be 16 oz in a 5 gallon keg.

 

[franknbeans]

16oz is a ton of extract.. definitely add little bits at a time and taste.

 

[z-bob]

My porter recipe is 90% pale ale malt or 2-row, 5% black patent malt, and 5% crystal 20. OG of 1.055 or so, and about 30 IBUs of bitterness. I use Willamette for both bittering and late-addition hops. I've brewed it several times, and the best batch was fermented with yeast cultured from a can of Bell's Oberon. I just bottled some a few days ago made with Nottingham.