Why is my beer finishing so low???

[LJvermonster]

Hi Folks!

I am fermenting with 1 packet of dry US-05, no starter. This is two batches in a row that my beer has finished at 1.006. Both were IPAs with similar grain bills, 81% 2 row, 5% wheat, 7% Corn Sugar, 7% Crystal 40.

First batch OG was 1.084, 4 gallons, mashed at 148 degrees 100 minutes
Second batch OF was 1.069, 5 gallons, mashed at 153 60 minutes

I'm fermenting around 61-65 degrees.

The first one made sense to finish so low because I mashed at 148 for 100 minutes and added corn sugar. It was 4 gallons.

The second one I had 92% attenuation. Is this strictly because of the corn sugar? How do I get 80% attenuation? I want these things to be around FG 1.012-1.014.

Cheers!

 

[atom]

are you sure your thermometer is accurate?

 

[Psylocide]

1. Check your thermometer

2. 148° is a pretty low mash temp... I generally have to mash (on my system) around 154-155° to end up in that FG range (with no corn sugar)

3. How is your crush and what brewing method are you using?

4. The corn sugar is definitely not helping the situation if you're consistently ending up with a low FG.

 

[LJvermonster]

1. Check your thermometer

2. 148° is a pretty low mash temp... I generally have to mash (on my system) around 154-155° to end up in that FG range (with no corn sugar)

3. How is your crush and what brewing method are you using?

4. The corn sugar is definitely not helping the situation if you're consistently ending up with a low FG.

Thermometer is spot on; at 148 you get more fermentable sugars.
Crush is standard milled from farmhouse brewing supply. My brew house efficiency has been consistently 68-70%.

 

[Psylocide]

Thermometer is spot on; at 148 you get more fermentable sugars.
Crush is standard milled from farmhouse brewing supply. My brew house efficiency has been consistently 68-70%.

I know you do. And you're asking how to have your beer finish higher... wouldn't less fermentable sugars fix that up for you a bit?

 

[LJvermonster]

I know you do. And you're asking how to have your beer finish higher... wouldn't less fermentable sugars fix that up for you a bit?

I misunderstood what you were saying . It made sense for my first beer to finish so low but the next beer I brewed was 153 degrees for 60 minutes. I'm wondering if the lb of corn sugar was the sole reason for that finished at 1.006.

Or do most people just attenuate at 90-92% with US05 and I need to go to a different yeast to achieve what I'm looking for?

 

[Psylocide]

I misunderstood what you were saying . It made sense for my first beer to finish so low but the next beer I brewed was 153 degrees for 60 minutes. I'm wondering if the lb of corn sugar was the sole reason for that finished at 1.006.

Or do most people just attenuate at 90-92% with US05 and I need to go to a different yeast to achieve what I'm looking for?

Re: US-05 being the wrong choice, I would say not.

The corn sugar is certainly causing it to finish lower than it otherwise would if it were not in the recipe and those additional gravity points came from grain.

Like I said before... it took me a few tries and mashing ~155° to hit that 1.012-1.014 range.

 

[1977Brewer]

US-05 is a monster, at least in my fermenters. The only way I can keep it from going below 1.010 is to not add sugar and mash WAY higher than I'm comfortable with. *Disclaimer* I am totally new at this, and that's from a very small sample size, and I founf this out by actually forgetting to add sugar. I want my IPA's and APA's as dry as possible anyway.

 

[joshesmusica]

But 1.006 is pretty low still... Have you checked to make sure your thermometer is accurate? Is it saying the proper temps for boiling and for freezing?

 

[LJvermonster]

Re: US-05 being the wrong choice, I would say not.

The corn sugar is certainly causing it to finish lower than it otherwise would if it were not in the recipe and those additional gravity points came from grain.

Like I said before... it took me a few tries and mashing ~155° to hit that 1.012-1.014 range.

Do you get the same flavor if you mash at 155 or higher? Do you mash at a shorter duration too? I have two cans of Heady Topper that I plan to harvest the yeast from for the next batch, see if that makes a difference... I guess I will try higher mash temps and no corn sugar next time..

 

[LJvermonster]

But 1.006 is pretty low still... Have you checked to make sure your thermometer is accurate? Is it saying the proper temps for boiling and for freezing?

I haven't checked the freezing temp but I do check it against my fluke temperature gun and they both read within 1 degree.

 

[Talgrath]

A few things to keep in mind, first and foremost that corn sugar will cause the beer to finish much lower, it's pretty much straight fermentable sugar. Secondly, US-05 is a very higher attenuating yeast, on average (according to the stat sheet) it sits at 81%, so a 92% fermentation, particularly with corn sugar, is very very likely. Generally I've found that US-05 tends to hit about 90% apparent attenuation if I'm making a pale ale or IPA mashed in a low to medium temperature. If you want to hit about 80% attenuation with US-05 you'll need to mash very high and use a good amount of crystal (which usually doesn't have as much fermentable sugar). Thirdly, high attenuation on an IPA is a good thing, usually IPAs are low body, high alcohol content and dry to accentuate the hop flavor so getting a 92% fermentation is a good thing; to me that sounds like the sort of results you want out of US-05 for an IPA.

 

[LJvermonster]

A few things to keep in mind, first and foremost that corn sugar will cause the beer to finish much lower, it's pretty much straight fermentable sugar. Secondly, US-05 is a very higher attenuating yeast, on average (according to the stat sheet) it sits at 81%, so a 92% fermentation, particularly with corn sugar, is very very likely. Generally I've found that US-05 tends to hit about 90% apparent attenuation if I'm making a pale ale or IPA mashed in a low to medium temperature. If you want to hit about 80% attenuation with US-05 you'll need to mash very high and use a good amount of crystal (which usually doesn't have as much fermentable sugar). Thirdly, high attenuation on an IPA is a good thing, usually IPAs are low body, high alcohol content and dry to accentuate the hop flavor so getting a 92% fermentation is a good thing; to me that sounds like the sort of results you want out of US-05 for an IPA.

Good input... The issue now is when I tasted it last night it tasted like hoppy water with a hint of malt. Not really what I was going for. You can just tell that there is body missing from this beer already.

 

[Schemy]

Stated what had been said already.

Carry on.

 

[Psylocide]

Do you get the same flavor if you mash at 155 or higher? Do you mash at a shorter duration too? I have two cans of Heady Topper that I plan to harvest the yeast from for the next batch, see if that makes a difference... I guess I will try higher mash temps and no corn sugar next time..

Well, I've never done a side by side on the flavor of both brews, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

The mouthfeel is definitely closer to what I was shooting for and was really just trying to hit a specific FG range.

I will continue to mash higher than a recipe says I need to based on my own system, however. But I'm mainly working on my own house recipes, so not really concerned about using a given mash temp.

Kind of a non-answer, answer for you there.

 

[LJvermonster]

2 Factors

1. Low mash temp
2. Corn Sugar.

I routinely get this dry with my saisons, and use the two factors above.

Why are you using the sugar in your IPA recipe? Boost alcohol? Dry it out?

Dry out the beer mostly and secondly to add alcohol. Next time I guess I am trying more grains in the mash and no sugar.

 

[LJvermonster]

Well, I've never done a side by side on the flavor of both brews, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

The mouthfeel is definitely closer to what I was shooting for and was really just trying to hit a specific FG range.

I will continue to mash higher than I think I need to based on my own system, however.

Kind of a non-answer, answer for you there.

Haha, a solid non-answer but there was something in there. I want a FG of 1.012-1.014... I haven't come close to that in any beer I've made and I always feel my beers are lacking something.

 

[Schemy]

Dry out the beer mostly and secondly to add alcohol. Next time I guess I am trying more grains in the mash and no sugar.

Nothing wrong with using the sugar. I'd just mash a little higher, and use >5% sugar. Keep ferm in the mid 60's and I think you'll be fine.

 

[Psylocide]

Yeah, I'd say try a little more crystal and base grains vs. adding sugar. Obviously you've found that your process is drying out your beers plenty without the sugar.

I'd shoot for an OG made up of only grain, mash at your "suggested" temp and see where that gets you.

Try to only change one thing at a time and you'll nail it down. Might just take a try or two.

 

[BigRedBrewer]

I had the same problem for a period of time and it made me look hard at each part of my process. I found that my mash-out procedures weren't very good. I would start running beer from my mash to my kettle even if I didn't raise the temp of my mash high enough. I think some conversion was still happening as the wort cooled in the kettle. So now I just start sparging with 170 deg water and Keep a low flame under my kettle to keep the wort above 170. Never had a problem since.

Not sure this is your problem, but something to look at.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

If you want to "fix" these batches you can add maltodexrin. It's the same sugar that is produced from a higher temperature mash. For the next batch, I agree with the others, mash higher. If you aren't doing a "mash out" then you might want to add one by bringing it to 160°F after the sac rest. If you are using a cooler tun then count the time from laughtering until you get to 160°F as part of your mash time.

 

[RichBenn]

1. Never use sugar unless making Pliny the elder, and then only a little. It's a high alcohol bomb for making hop candy.
2. Mash techniques vary. When you measure mash, check like crazy with a portable pen, as it can vary throughout and during the mash. Stir more, if needed. Do a mash out. Check your pH. Don't be afraid to raise your mash temp. Yours may be different than others, because of your water, where you are measuring, etc.
3. U.S.-05 is a high attenuator. Try a different yeast.
4. RDWHAHB

 

[DurtyChemist]

Brew it without adding sugar. Get a full 5 gallons and mash 147-152 range and see what happens. I have a feeling the pound of straight fermentable sugar is what is causing you to overshoot your gravity. I bet the beer is dry.

Your second option is to check gravitates and when it is where you want it you could rack it off the yeast.

 

[joshesmusica]

Brew it without adding sugar. Get a full 5 gallons and mash 147-152 range and see what happens. I have a feeling the pound of straight fermentable sugar is what is causing you to overshoot your gravity. I bet the beer is dry.

Your second option is to check gravitates and when it is where you want it you could rack it off the yeast.

is racking it off the yeast going to stop the fermentation completely? i mean i guess if you kegged it immediately and kept it just above freezing it would stay pretty much the same? but what if he's bottling?

 

[LJvermonster]

is racking it off the yeast going to stop the fermentation completely? i mean i guess if you kegged it immediately and kept it just above freezing it would stay pretty much the same? but what if he's bottling?

I bottle two 22oz bottles and the rest goes in a keg. I am interested in this question as well? Also, if the the yeast was still hungry would it over carbonate the beer in the bottle?

I am going to go the route of getting my OG without using sugar as I want to keep my processes simple. Once complete, let sit for 3 weeks, drop hop 4 days, cold crash 3, then bottle and keg. 4 week process. Done.

 

[joshesmusica]

That was kinda my point about bottling, racking it isn't going to save you from bottle bombs. Though the question still remains I suppose. I personally would rather just fix the mash/boil/fermentables than trying to stop fermentation. It just sounds like bad brewing practice.

 

[DurtyChemist]

is racking it off the yeast going to stop the fermentation completely? i mean i guess if you kegged it immediately and kept it just above freezing it would stay pretty much the same? but what if he's bottling?

I was thinking of racking to a secondary when it hits FG. Since you remove the fermentable wort from the bulk of the yeast I wouldn't expect to see much more of a gravity drop if you rack at 1.014. I would expect it to go to 1.012 but I've never needed to rack early nor have I tried it.

If bottling I would use a little less sugar expecting the wort to ferment a little bit more and the extra sugar would just increase CO2 volumes above desired levels. If it was my beer I wanted to finish I would bottle at 1.014 and sugar amounts to get me at the lower end of the CO2 volumes for the style. I'd rack to a secondary first though for a couple days them bottle. You will still have enough yeast to carbonate it may just need to stay at 75 for the full 3 weeks most people cite.

 

[DurtyChemist]

I bottle two 22oz bottles and the rest goes in a keg. I am interested in this question as well? Also, if the the yeast was still hungry would it over carbonate the beer in the bottle?



I am going to go the route of getting my OG without using sugar as I want to keep my processes simple. Once complete, let sit for 3 weeks, drop hop 4 days, cold crash 3, then bottle and keg. 4 week process. Done.

I would just keg the whole thing and use a Beergun to bottle it. Youll never use a bottling wand again after doing this.

 

[ncbrewer]

If bottling I would use a little less sugar expecting the wort to ferment a little bit more and the extra sugar would just increase CO2 volumes above desired levels. If it was my beer I wanted to finish I would bottle at 1.014 and sugar amounts to get me at the lower end of the CO2 volumes for the style. I'd rack to a secondary first though for a couple days them bottle. You will still have enough yeast to carbonate it may just need to stay at 75 for the full 3 weeks most people cite.

From strictly a technical brewing standpoint this might be right, but to me, the potential for bottle bombs makes it too hazardous. JMO

 

[madk]

I usually mash my IPAs at 150 and generally finish out at the 1.010 - 1.012 range. I'd raise your temp a bit and get rid of the corn sugar.

 

[peterj]

I was thinking of racking to a secondary when it hits FG. Since you remove the fermentable wort from the bulk of the yeast I wouldn't expect to see much more of a gravity drop if you rack at 1.014. I would expect it to go to 1.012 but I've never needed to rack early nor have I tried it.

If bottling I would use a little less sugar expecting the wort to ferment a little bit more and the extra sugar would just increase CO2 volumes above desired levels. If it was my beer I wanted to finish I would bottle at 1.014 and sugar amounts to get me at the lower end of the CO2 volumes for the style. I'd rack to a secondary first though for a couple days them bottle. You will still have enough yeast to carbonate it may just need to stay at 75 for the full 3 weeks most people cite.

No, this would not work at all. The beer would absolutely not stop fermenting just because you take the beer off of the yeast cake. The yeast in the cake is mostly dormant anyway, and there would still be more than enough yeast in solution to continue fermenting just fine. If you bottled it with fermentable sugar still in solution, the yeast would just end up eating all of that sugar anyway plus the priming sugar. So you would end up with the same FG regardless and probably overcarbonation as well.

You should always encourage the yeast to fully ferment all of the sugar in the wort that they possibly can before you bottle. The solution to raise the FG is to put less fermentable and more unfermentable sugar in the wort. As many have said this can be achieved by mashing higher and cutting the simple sugar addition.

 

[joshesmusica]

yeah kinda what i was thinking. it makes no sense to attempt to cut fermentation short over fixing your mashing practices. it's just creating more possible problems instead of actually fixing the original cause.

 

[DurtyChemist]

No, this would not work at all. The beer would absolutely not stop fermenting just because you take the beer off of the yeast cake. The yeast in the cake is mostly dormant anyway, and there would still be more than enough yeast in solution to continue fermenting just fine. If you bottled it with fermentable sugar still in solution, the yeast would just end up eating all of that sugar anyway plus the priming sugar. So you would end up with the same FG regardless and probably overcarbonation as well.

You should always encourage the yeast to fully ferment all of the sugar in the wort that they possibly can before you bottle. The solution to raise the FG is to put less fermentable and more unfermentable sugar in the wort. As many have said this can be achieved by mashing higher and cutting the simple sugar addition.

This is why I said I would try it and check gravities.

 

[beergolf]

Your second option is to check gravitates and when it is where you want it you could rack it off the yeast.

This is really bad advice. If you rack it , there will be some yeast there, which will continue to eat the fermentable sugars. If you try this and bottle, you are almost surely to get bottle bombs. You cannot stop the yeast from eating until there is nothing more for it to eat. If his beers are continually finishing lower than that, then that issue needs to addressed. Trying to control the yeast will not work unless you pasteurize the brew to kill the yeast.

 

[DurtyChemist]

That was kinda my point about bottling, racking it isn't going to save you from bottle bombs. Though the question still remains I suppose. I personally would rather just fix the mash/boil/fermentables than trying to stop fermentation. It just sounds like bad brewing practice.

If you rack to secondary and it doesn't change gravities what danger would be bottle bombs? Still I would make it without the sugar first.

 

[charliethebum]

I had this same problem before I started doing a mash out. if you don't raise your mash temp (I want to say at least 168?) before lautering , or shortly thereafter, your wort will continue converting until you do raise the temp, resulting in more fermentable sugars.

 

[aprichman]

165F and above will denature the amylase

 

[jahdub]

If you rack to secondary and it doesn't change gravities what danger would be bottle bombs? Still I would make it without the sugar first.

It IS going to change gravity. Just racking off the yeast cake isn't going to stop fermentation. He must lower fermentables, if he wants a higher FG.

If racking off the yeast cake would stop fermentation, everyone that bottled would have flat beer, because the yeast would not ferment the priming sugar.