Why do people love clones?

[AnOldUR]

. . . Someone else already nailed it? Really? Closed minded view of what beer is all about. Just because you chose to clone a beer, doesn't mean someone else has "nailed" it.

Really! It is what it is, and if you're really trying to clone IT, you're trying to reproduce what they nailed. If you're trying to make a better version of an existing beer, you're not trying to clone it.

 

[wildwest450]

Where do you get the best price on that?

Nice!, you get internet humor.


.

 

[Nova5]

Personally i like making clones because i make them do the ****work i don't want to do.

 

[Manfish]

I have only done 1 clone so far, gonna do a couple more in a month or so, but the reason I did/will do it is that it's cheaper! I admit that for no other reason (than obviously I like that beer) than the price. My buddy Mike and I used to go to a local bar, spend $3/pint on Red Hooks CopperHook. I cloned it, kegged it, and now we are drinking it for about $0.55/pint.... um, YEAH! Are you kidding me?

 

[pernox]

Last I check STFU is free. And wouldn't it be called a French Porter? Or possibly a French Imperial Porter if the sh*t was particularly strong and has a high OG?

If it was a French Porter, it would run away before you got to take a sip off it.

 

[mikeysab]

how'd this thread go from one post short of a shootout to a beer naming brainstorm?

 

[Selfsufficient]

At this point in my brew hobby, I have not tried to clone anything. However, the knowledge that I have gained by brewing other members clones and recipes has taught me, wait, provided me the "I finally get it" moment. My wife didn't like the first 5 all-grain batches that I did. Too sweet, too thick. After brewing some of the recipes on this forum, clone or otherwise, AAAAHHHHHHHHHH, Mash tooooooo hot. Now I know how to make a really dry beer and a really sweet beer. Trial and error is awesome and so are clones and recipes. NOW I can finally tweek the recipe. In the end, they all made beer, I just might have gained a few pounds in the process.

 

[munche]

I guess let's compare it to making a cake.

You can buy a boxed cake and have everything almost made for you. This to me is like an extract kit
You can buy the ingredients from a recipe and make it from scratch based on the recipe. This to me is like a clone recipe.
Or you can just pull the ingredients together and make a cake.

You typically start at one and work your way to the end. To me, making a clone is making a beer from a recipe...I'm still new at brewing, and I'm learning what goes together and what doesn't. So I look at styles of beer that I like, make them from the recipes I find and I'm slowly learning the different flavors I get from different malts/hops/etc.

Sure I could go down to the LHBS, grab a scooper and throw in various amounts of grains/hops/yeast, but odds of that coming out good are pretty low. I don't really know enough about the ingredients to know their flavors, so I rely on proven recipes. Sure I could take "generic IPA" off the internet, but what if that IPA tastes like ass? Better to target something that tastes like a known quantity. Besides which, "Generic IPA Recipe" be it from a website, beersmith, or a book, isn't any more "Creating something new" than making a clone is. It's just cloning a beer I've never tried.

 

[chrislehr]

You can get front row seats to a cover band.

Sometimes it's not about the name, but the experience.

 

[arturo7]

The LA Philharmonic is a cover band and they kick serious arse.

 

[AnOldUR]

Your "own" recipe, really? Post an "original', and i'll find 25 of the same that has been done first. There aint much left in the brewing field that hasn't been tried.

Yeah, but there's always the ignorance factor. I thought I brewed something really good and someone on here pointed out that all I did was clone GumballHead. :cross:

 

[SwampassJ]

I don't understand the fascination with brewing clones. I mean, if I wanted a beer that tasted like Pliny the Elder for example, I'd just go buy a 6er of it. In my opinion (and it's just an opinion so no flaming necessary), brewing a clone is like watching a cover band...they're both close to the real thing, but the real thing is usually better.

I'll admit, I've brewed a few not-so-spectacular beers, but they were my own recipes so I enjoyed them anyway...still better than half the stuff you find at the store.

So, why the clone love?

Because some of us don't have the privilege of living in a distribution area of certain micro brews.

 

[HIbrew]

I like to brew clones when I need a challenge to get me excited about brewing. I also enjoy putting all the pieces together and finding how different ingredients contribute to the final product. I agree that brewing clones from a recipe can get old, but that style of brewing can help to get people into the hobby in the beginning. My dad got into it brewing a harpoon ipa.

 

[Franzi]

Funny how the guy who calls me an elitist troll is the ****** who's stirring up trouble and bashing people's opinions. Go build up your post count somewhere else, loser.

As somebody above mentioned, it was a legit question. I'm not making fun of people for brewing clones...just sparking conversation instead of the usual "what's better, dme or lme?"

Thanks to everybody else though

 

[RDWHAHB]

Well I'll pithch in and call you elitist too then. You brew because you like making your own recipes (even though by your own account they don't taste good). Your tone often indicates your think your motives are better than people who brew clones for a variety of reasons. That makes you elitist. I like the process of brewing, and enjoying the finished product. Don't care a whole lot for the recipe generation. Everybody has diffrent reason for brewing. If you don't actually think your reasons are better, modify your tone. Then you don't seem elitist.

 

[Ragutis]

I really like Orfy's Hobgoblin clone. An actual Hobgoblin, while tasty, pales to the fresh version that I brew. Travel and temperature variances take their toll on imported beers.

 

[heywolfie1015]

I really like Orfy's Hobgoblin clone. An actual Hobgoblin, while tasty, pales to the fresh version that I brew. Travel and temperature variances take their toll on imported beers.

Actually, I think this is an incredibly valid point. Travel can really kill a beer. Case in point, just try to argue that a Pilsner Urquell found at a liquor store in the U.S. is just as good as the one pulled from the tap in Pilsn itself. Or a one-year-old Saison Dupont that's been sitting in fluorescent lights on trucks and at the store is just as good as the product straight from the brewery. Fact is, you can't make that claim.

By brewing clones, you get quality control over the life of the beer and can ensure (to the extent of your own capabilities) that it will be better tasting, longer, than the commercial versions.

Finally, to add my two cents, I like to brew clones for styles that I like, but don't care about enough to make my own recipe. For example, I think Moose Drool is just about the best American Brown out there. Since my interests in experimentation lie elsewhere, when I get in the mood for an American Brown, why reinvent the wheel? I'll just make my Moose Drool clone and rest assured that the result will be something I absolutely love.

 

[coastwx]

Like others have said, I like to approximate some of the beers made by experts and tweak to my taste, or to the ingredients I have on hand. For example, I made something similar to SNPA, but bumped up the dry hop, which made it much better than the original. That freakin stuff put a smile on my face everyday I had a glass I also did a Bell's two-hearted, but used Amarillo instead of Centennial because that's what I had on hand. I'm fairly new and making clones helps my understanding of how variability on different malts, hops, yeast, mashing temps, etc impact the taste.

 

[Franzi]

Well I'll pithch in and call you elitist too then. You brew because you like making your own recipes (even though by your own account they don't taste good). Your tone often indicates your think your motives are better than people who brew clones for a variety of reasons. That makes you elitist. I like the process of brewing, and enjoying the finished product. Don't care a whole lot for the recipe generation. Everybody has diffrent reason for brewing. If you don't actually think your reasons are better, modify your tone. Then you don't seem elitist.

I don't think my tone is the problem. Only you and two others have taken issue with this thread. Those who didn't falsely read in to the tonality of my original post, responded with points that I have found to be very interesting and as I stated earlier, have convinced me to give a clone a try.

No need to get your panties in a bunch (read with tone). Just like all of us on this board, I'm pro beer whether it's purchased, an original recipe, a clone, a modified clone, or even a coors lite.

Please stop trolling, thanks!

 

[mikeysab]

I think the fact that you're on a homebrewing forum speaks for part of your dedication to brewing your own beer, and that's great. But on the other hand, how could you ask the question "Why do people love clones?" and say " I don't understand the fascination with brewing clones" without sounding like it's beneath you? IMO every lager you brew is a clone of someone elses lager. Every APA is a clone of someone elses APA. The difference is, you never tasted the original, so you're going in blind. Brewing a clone gives you a starting point, a tried and true beer that you can say"thats good, and I want to brew that". llets face it, there are only so many types of malted barley, hops, and yeast out there. So next time you think "i just made an original recipe", think again. People have undouubtedly brewed recipes that could be award winners, but didn't enjoy them and didn't share them. I just drank a DFH 60 in a bar that gets put to shame by the clone of it I brewed myself.

like I said before, your original question could have been phrased "why the 'brew your own' love?" because there's probably no such thing as an original recipe at this point.

and you did phrase your OP in a way that made you sound like brewing clones was beneath you, and any other HB'er, but that's just my two cents. That's how I took it

 

[AnOldUR]

So, why the clone love?

Seem like a perfectly good question for someone to ask if they really wanted to know and couldn't understand someone else's motives. From most of the posters you got good responses and convincing arguments to clone. The only possibility for the negativity from a few is insecurity on their part and feeling unwarranted guilt about what they are doing. Good question and good responses.

 

[rico567]

I think that until a homebrewer is very experienced and has good knowledge of what ingredients produce what flavors, aromas or effects, clone brewing is an excellent way to learn these things.

 

[mikeysab]

Seem like a perfectly good question for someone to ask if they really wanted to know and couldn't understand someone elses motives. From most of the posters you got good responses and convincing arguments to clone. The only possibility for the negativity from a few is insecurity on their part and feeling unwarranted guilt about what they are doing. Good question and good responces.

you can't possibly be serious about that, can you? Insecurity and guilt about brewing a clone???? So by that, if I brew a clone, I should say"wow, I feel terrible about brewing that, since it's already been done"? Thats just bizarre, and sounds like you're kidding. I've brewed all kinds of beers, even beers I don't even drink, just to know what I'm doing and what to expect from ingredients. Either way, all recipes are clones, so get off the high horse people, you're no better for formulating "your own" recipe than others who bre someone elses

 

[AnOldUR]

you can't possibly be serious about that, can you? Insecurity and guilt about brewing a clone????

Apparently your paranoia is only matched by your lack of reading comprehension.

The only possibility for the negativity from a few is insecurity on their part and feeling unwarranted guilt about what they are doing.

 

[SkiSoloII]

So, why the clone love?

For me, two reasons.

1. The challenge of making a similar brew. Finding ways to get the flavors you love. Then you can combine known flavors for other brews that are not clones.

2. Can't always get the brew you want in the area that you are - Can't get Surly Furious or PTE here in Michigan.

Dave

 

[mikeysab]

yeah, but guilt, whether warranted or not. Don't try to pull that with me, I'm not one of those dummies that will go for it. Lets just say that we all brew what we want to brew and that's it. Saying "why brew a clone" is the same thing as saying "why brew a bavarian hefe". It's a type of beer, whether the type is clone, lager, wheat, or blonde. And don't even try to get THAT technical about it. Were all brewers in our own way. I happen to be one who doesn't always conform to styles and if I brew a batch that isn't a gold winner, I'll learn from it, like every other batch. In my opinion, the question posed is a silly one, and the OP's tone made it look like cloners were below other brewers. But that's what I took from it. Feel free to disagree, I'll just brew another clone and not think twice about it

 

[Livendadream]

One word "Seasonal releases". I am surprised nobody has mentioned this. I love drinking seasonals all year long . Before you know it they are gone. Example SN Celebration is a beer I love all the time. That is why I brew it and that is why I love clonessssssssssssss.

 

[munche]

One word "Seasonal releases". I am surprised nobody has mentioned this. I love drinking seasonals all year long . Before you know it they are gone. Example SN Celebration is a beer I love all the time. That is why I brew it and that is why I love clonessssssssssssss.

I would vote this, but I've still never found a Sam Adams White clone recipe. Curses!!!

 

[howabouttheiris]

The main reason I brewed a Guinness clone was that I could go to the beer store and buy a 6er to sit and compare/contrast... I probably would have preferred a different stout, but I really wanted to

1) test the AHS clone recipe accuracy and
2) to understand how my questionable steep process works compared to the "expected" results.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

I have 9 or so finished batches under my belt. The biggest thing for me on a clone recipe is the "how did they do that?"

Where do you pile on the hops? How much crystal malt gets what effect?

I haven't brewed any explicit clones, but after my first couple of recipes had too much of something (Carafa III, not the debittered variety and Honey Malt in the second) I started looking at clone recipes to understand how to develop certain levels of effect.

My best tasting of the 8 batches that have been bottled isn't a clone, but I used clone recipes to understand how to hop an IPA and how much of various malts I might like. And that is why it kicks butt and my first IPA didn't...

 

[wedge421]

I really like clone recipes because I do not have a ton of time to brew. So I like knowing that what im getting is a tried and true recipe that I know I will enjoy.