Turbo Yeast (help) for White Claw Seltzer Knock-off

[Brooothru]

Welp, guess I can't put it off any longer. After delaying the inevitable for about 8 months, it's finally time to quit putting it off and just DO IT! "It" being 'just brew the damned thing', with "damed thing" being a Grapefruit Seltzer clone. As is likely obvious, I'm not a big fan of seltzers, but my daughter has been getting increasingly antsy about when I'm finally going to make this seltzer thingy for her and Son-in-Law-Who-Looks-and Golfs-Like-Phil-Michelson. So any 'helpful' hints and gentle guidance, especially regarding yeast and fermentation, would be greatly appreciated.

For background, I've had the ingredients on hand since early last Spring: 4# dextrose (corn sugar), Proper Nutrient for Seltzer, 5 gallons distilled water, and 8.6 oz/243gr FermFast Turbo yeast. First question: half a pound of dried yeast??? REALLY??? Will I be able to keep a ½" ID blow-off line attached??? The package says it makes up to 6.6 U.S. gallons/25L, which is my target volume, in 48 hours. Is this normal? It sounds explosive! Several recipes I've looked at say to ferment between 65F~85F. With that much activity going on inside the fermenter, I'm wondering if my chiller has enough capacity to keep the heat from fermentation down that low. The instructions on the yeast packet say to pitch the entire contents (one-half pound!) and "secure the lid firmly." Ya' THINK?

The Clawhammer website recipe suggests that my 'wort' numbers should be ~1.038 SG/9.5P original gravity and finish ~0.997 FG/-(0.78)P, or about 40 points in 48 hours. It says to expect quite a bit of sulphur to get produced during fermentation, but it cleans up after itself nicely and drops clear after about 10-14 days. I'll be fermenting in a unitank, hoping to maintain some kind of temperature control (heat and cooling, as necessary), dump any 'trub' and yeast solids, and maybe hit it with some Biofine. Has anyone tried spunding a seltzer, or is it better to just to keg it and pressure carb with bottled CO2?

Final Q: what about the flavoring? I've got a 4 oz bottle of Brewer's Best Grapefruit (their favorite) flavoring. The only guidance I can find is "add to taste", which isn't much help. Clawhammer hypes a different brand (Olive Nation), and they suggest 0.5~1.0ml per 100ml seltzer, so I calculate about 3.4oz for my batch. Sound about right?

Looking for practical suggestions and experiences you might have had. After 35 years of making wine and probably at least 25 of brewing beer, this has me feeling like a real noob. Thanks in advance!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I am in the same boat as you, it all seems so simplistic, and I should be able to do it in an evening after work. Yet here I am with all the ingredients for the past few months and haven't done a thing with them. I'm here to listen the advice as well.

Cheers

 

[Brooothru]

What flavor are you planning? The Clawhammer video had the staff try about 8~10 different flavors. It’s a funny video that descends into a drunken farce, but oddly the panel only really liked about three flavors of the Olive Nation concentrates.

You’re right about the fact that it should be a simple process. If it’s a dud, my only investment will be about $25 and an afternoon of my time. The damage to my pride is what keeps me hesitant.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Right there with you, and yes I watched their video also, got a kick out of that. My wife picked out some flavors she wants to try, so to start out I'm leaving it unflavored and she can add flavors when she pours a glass. She got 3 flavors to start with but I don't recall what they are.

 

[Brooothru]

The interesting sidebar to the ‘taste-off’ was the fact that two of the tasters said at one point that they preferred the unflavored seltzer to any of the choices. However, by that point, all the tasters appeared to be three sheets to the wind.

I may split the 6 gallon batch into two 3 gallon batches, and dose one of them with ½ the estimated amount of flavoring as a control batch and a test batch. If the test batch is too much (or too little) flavor I can adjust accordingly. If not enough flavor, increase the amount proportionately, then use the control batch to balance the flavor. I should get to a desirable minimum of 5 gallons either way.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Not a bad plan, my wife said she got lime and black cherry. The lime I could maybe tolerate, but I doubt I'd have more then a sip of hers to verify how awful it is.

Yeah, in that video I remember thinking, wow, these guys agree that the product is garbage.

Personally I'd rather flavor it naturally but I wont venture down that path until I get a better grasp of what makes a "good" seltzer.


Edit, I got some mangrove jack seltzer yeast that was recommended to me. Had to get it from Amazon but that might be something for you to check out for the yeast portion of the style

 

[day_trippr]

Is grapefruit seltzer a thing? Of all the fruits, that one seems like it'd be the sketchiest.
I think I'd start with something like raspberry or maybe cherry if it's not that medicinal cherry flavor

Cheers!

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Is there a calculator to "prime" a completely STILL mixture of distilled water + 40% abv vodka + flavoring? I've ascertained that the flavoring had no preservatives (besides ethanol).

I attempted a 12oz bottle with 2.0 oz vodka and 10.0 oz distilled water and 3/4 tsp table sugar (and a dab of krausen from a us-05 beer fermenting in the closet)... After 14 days at 70F degrees, absolutely zero "pssssht" carbonation! I've since poured it into a PET bottle and added another 1/2 tsp table sugar, but I'm wishing I had a better idea of how much sugar I should really be using.

 

[day_trippr]

3/4 tsp of sugar and two weeks at 70-ish temps should have resulted in substantial carbonation - that's the exact recipe I used when I was bottling in 12 ounce glass to hit around 2.5 volumes of carbonation.

fwiw, back then I used a tip to include one plastic soda bottle in the bunch, and use that bottle to get an idea of how the conditioning was going (the harder the bottle gets when squeezed the closer to "done") which avoids prematurely uncapping glass.

You might be able to get a calculator to consider starting with zero volumes of CO2 (where a typical fermentation will leave .6-.8 volumes depending on temperature) by telling the calculator the seltzer was hot, which would lower the starting carbonation level...

Cheers!

 

[Brooothru]

Not a bad plan, my wife said she got lime and black cherry. The lime I could maybe tolerate, but I doubt I'd have more then a sip of hers to verify how awful it is.

Yeah, in that video I remember thinking, wow, these guys agree that the product is garbage.

Personally I'd rather flavor it naturally but I wont venture down that path until I get a better grasp of what makes a "good" seltzer.


Edit, I got some mangrove jack seltzer yeast that was recommended to me. Had to get it from Amazon but that might be something for you to check out for the yeast portion of the style

Actually, the lime flavor didn’t look too bad, especially when they served some Key Lime Pie on the side. Love me some KLP!

When we were visiting my daughter in Florida recently, her pregnant sister-in-law happened to be in town and was stopping by for dinner. So far the hardest part of her pregnancy has been forgoing adult beverages, so I was assigned the task of finding suitable non-alcoholic libations. I found an adequate alcohol-free red dinner wine, a sixer of Lagunitas NIPA (my NA go-to), and some Dos Eques Zero With Lime, which was surprisingly good.

A few years ago my wife (non beer drinker) and I were touring a brewery ‘somewhere’, and they had a Key Lime cider on tap, so I got her one as a consolation prize for indulging me on the tour. It impressed me enough that I actually tried making one myself, but the results were disappointing. I’ve still got a quart of frozen Key Lime juice that I extracted from a bag of Key Limes, plus a a couple of frozen ziplock bags of zest that I grated from those limes, taking up space that should be occupied by hops and frozen yeast samples.

First World problems. (sigh).

 

[Brooothru]

Is grapefruit seltzer a thing? Of all the fruits, that one seems like it'd be the sketchiest.
I think I'd start with something like raspberry or maybe cherry if it's not that medicinal cherry flavor

Cheers!

Yeah, it’s really not bad. For a seltzer.

To me it tastes like Ruby Red grapefruit juice that has started to spontaneously ferment, but with more carbonation. I really like citrus fruits and juices, but for some obscure reason that I don’t understand, grapefruit specifically is “off limits” when taking statins, as I have been for decades. Every other citrus is OK, but grapefruit exclusively is on the very short list of food items that I’m required to avoid. Flavor extracts are somehow allowed. Sad.

 

[Brooothru]

Is grapefruit seltzer a thing? Of all the fruits, that one seems like it'd be the sketchiest.
I think I'd start with something like raspberry or maybe cherry if it's not that medicinal cherry flavor

Cheers!

A few years back, Ballast Point Grapefruit Sculpin IPA was the rage on the West Coast, up until the North East Hazies showed up. It was my son’s favorite when he traveled to SoCal frequently on business. I used to like it a lot as well, but it’s getting harder to find here on the East Coast. Everything is either hazy or seltzer these days.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Ahhhh, I could go for a grapefruit sculpin. Been awhile.

 

[seilenos]

A little off-topic due to lack of fermentation, but if anyone is looking for a cheat shortcut:

Into a corny keg, add:

• 33.8 oz (1L) 190 proof Everclear or 80 oz 80 proof vodka
• 50g sugar
• 50g stevia
• 16g citric acid
• 1.5g salt

Top with water. Shake to mix. Connect to 25 psi CO2. Give it a few days to be carbonated.

If water is already cold you can connect to 25 psi and shake until no more CO2 bubbles in while shaking and serve immediately.

Keep various flavor squeezies (Mio, Crystal Light, etc) on hand so people can create their own .... though I found most people just end up drinking the plain version (or use it as mixer).

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well sure, then I'll have to add everclear to my liquor inventory... horrible idea...

 

[EDF713]

I've made a couple of seltzers with wine yeast, it worked well but I had to use gelatin or super kleer to get them to clear. I don't know about that much yeast, I used the 5g packets for wine yeast for a 3 gallon batch. You definitely want all that nutrient (I used energizer and fermaid O I had on hand).

I tried spunding one and it was a sulfur bomb, so I don't recommend that.

I also used the brewer's best grapefruit extract. 4 oz in 3 gallons was too much, if I had to do it over I'd use half. I used the whole bottle because I used half a bottle of the lime extract in a 3 gallon batch and didn't think it was enough, but it may have been because it wasn't acidic enough (I think I used too much baking soda). And I agree with the clawhammer guys, I liked it best plain. My last batch was plain and without using baking soda to control ph, just a gram each of gypsum and calcium chloride in RO water, so I think the acidity is what I liked.

 

[Brooothru]

I've made a couple of seltzers with wine yeast, it worked well but I had to use gelatin or super kleer to get them to clear. I don't know about that much yeast, I used the 5g packets for wine yeast for a 3 gallon batch. You definitely want all that nutrient (I used energizer and fermaid O I had on hand).

I tried spunding one and it was a sulfur bomb, so I don't recommend that.

I also used the brewer's best grapefruit extract. 4 oz in 3 gallons was too much, if I had to do it over I'd use half. I used the whole bottle because I used half a bottle of the lime extract in a 3 gallon batch and didn't think it was enough, but it may have been because it wasn't acidic enough (I think I used too much baking soda). And I agree with the clawhammer guys, I liked it best plain. My last batch was plain and without using baking soda to control ph, just a gram each of gypsum and calcium chloride in RO water, so I think the acidity is what I liked.

Great point on the sulphur bomb. I hadn’t even considered that likelihood in a dextrose/sucrose fermentation. I’ve seen some recipes that recommend low-flow CO2 scrubbing after fermentation is complete before cold crashing, flavoring, crashing and carbonation. Makes sense to not spund.

 

[EDF713]

Great point on the sulphur bomb. I hadn’t even considered that likelihood in a dextrose/sucrose fermentation. I’ve seen some recipes that recommend low-flow CO2 scrubbing after fermentation is complete before cold crashing, flavoring, crashing and carbonation. Makes sense to not spund.

Yeah, I ended up CO2 scrubbing my sulfur bomb. By the time I was done I probably used more CO2 than if I'd just force carbed it.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

How important is water on this? I didn't buy distilled. My water (private well) is hard like 100ppm CaCO3 and I usually treat with phosphoric acid for ph and alkalinity correction. Am I better off just getting distilled water or will it not make a big difference?

 

[Brooothru]

How important is water on this? I didn't buy distilled. My water (private well) is hard like 100ppm CaCO3 and I usually treat with phosphoric acid for ph and alkalinity correction. Am I better off just getting distilled water or will it not make a big difference?

What I gathered from the numerous sources I read was that ‘water’ is a two-edged sword. You really want a crystal clear seltzer, and most mineral water will produce cloudy and off color yellow beverages. But, without adequate calcium and a few trace elements, the fermentation will suffer and you may not get complete fermentation down to 1.000 SG or lower, resulting in residual sugar.

Most recipes and suggestions I’ve seen say to start with distilled or RO and build a proper water with seltzer yeast nutrients, turbo yeast, and CaCl. They also recommend additional nutrient “feedings” after active fermentation begins as well as when it slows to ensure the fermentation ends dry and complete.

 

[ba-brewer]

If you shoot for around 5% ABV or less I believe one nutrient addition in the beginning it sufficient.