This is not the issue with plastic. The issue is that scratches provide a place for dirt, residue etc to remain after a cleaning that infects the next batch. Gentle and thorough cleaning and sanitizing make infections a near impossibility
Why bother with carboys and blow-off tubes?
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This is not the issue with plastic. The issue is that scratches provide a place for dirt, residue etc to remain after a cleaning that infects the next batch. Gentle and thorough cleaning and sanitizing make infections a near impossibility
It is.
And even Samuel Smith can't change gas laws...
Cheers!
And even Samuel Smith can't change gas laws...
Cheers!
OP
OP
True enough 
Don't get me wrong - showing an open active fermenter as a counterpoint to the discussion which had been focused on closed fermenters at the post-fermentation phase was a miss anyway. But if you have an open vessel of fermenting beer continually evolving CO2 of course there will be a CO2-rich environment under that foam. And of course the gas is also constantly dissipating - which goes back to those gas laws...
Cheers!
Don't get me wrong - showing an open active fermenter as a counterpoint to the discussion which had been focused on closed fermenters at the post-fermentation phase was a miss anyway. But if you have an open vessel of fermenting beer continually evolving CO2 of course there will be a CO2-rich environment under that foam. And of course the gas is also constantly dissipating - which goes back to those gas laws...
Cheers!
I bet a doughnut there isnt a shred of evidence that plastic buckets do have a higher infection rate.
As far as cleaning everyday yes we do. But we also do time based testing as a means of affirming our results. We do allow some pieces to sit for 1,2,and 3 weeks for testing. IMHO This will someday day go the way of YOU MUST SECONDARY. Don't forget it is not just materials. Everyone knows how more difficult it is to clean the inside of a carboy vs a bucket
As far as cleaning everyday yes we do. But we also do time based testing as a means of affirming our results. We do allow some pieces to sit for 1,2,and 3 weeks for testing. IMHO This will someday day go the way of YOU MUST SECONDARY. Don't forget it is not just materials. Everyone knows how more difficult it is to clean the inside of a carboy vs a bucket
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ftfy :cross:
flugelizor
Well-Known Member
Please weigh in bucket fermenters. Do you guys primary ferment in a bucket with spigot?
You think a spigot is easy to clean?
I think a spigot would make it easier to rack, and yeast harvest, but when I use one (for bottling) I always worry about the cleanliness of the spigot.
You think a spigot is easy to clean?
I think a spigot would make it easier to rack, and yeast harvest, but when I use one (for bottling) I always worry about the cleanliness of the spigot.
I prefer to use carboys for primary and aging. The couple of buckets friends/family used lost their ability to seal perfectly early on. While open and covered but not sealed primaries are fine, doing so for aging has bad idea written all over it. Also my line of work has constantly changing hours, and on occasion I end up bulk aging in primary because I can't even find the time of day to rack.
Due to circumstance I also use gelatin at room temperature to help clear most beer after fermentation. While it does work, it certainly isn't optimal or as fast as cold crashing. But I play the cards I'm dealt. Carboys allow me to see if things have clarified yet or still need some time.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain around the krausen line, but that's about it. Usually give it a vigorous rinsing, then a gallon of water and oxyclean. Flip it! Upside down if you have a way to stand it like so, on it's side in the bathtub and roll it 90 degrees every few hours, whatever needs to be. Reaching into a bucket with a cloth is fast and easy, they just don't work with my current needs.
In the future I'd like to get a couple of plastic big mouth bubblers for primary. They seem to be the best of both worlds. Clear, airtight, non-oxygen leaking, big enough to get an arm in for cleaning, droppable, probably less likely to explode with co2 racking compared to glass. But I'd like to invest in expanding my keezer capabilities first. External gas, 4 kegs inside without collar and tap towers, 6 kegs inside with collar and towers for front mounted taps, 6 and towers, oh the possibilities. As long as I'm done with opening the lid and fighting with a picnic faucet it'll make me happy.
My father (and my first couple batches) were a bottling bucket primary for a week, 2 weeks in clearing vessel (carboy), then bottled from the bucket. No infections for either of us. The spigot isn't right at the bottom, but I'm sure you could drill where you'd like it to be and/or use a pick up tube.
Cleaning and sanitizing the spigot took just as long as doing the rest of the bucket. Perhaps longer. While not a difficult task it was time consuming because I knew that it was an ideal infection spawning location.
Due to circumstance I also use gelatin at room temperature to help clear most beer after fermentation. While it does work, it certainly isn't optimal or as fast as cold crashing. But I play the cards I'm dealt. Carboys allow me to see if things have clarified yet or still need some time.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain around the krausen line, but that's about it. Usually give it a vigorous rinsing, then a gallon of water and oxyclean. Flip it! Upside down if you have a way to stand it like so, on it's side in the bathtub and roll it 90 degrees every few hours, whatever needs to be. Reaching into a bucket with a cloth is fast and easy, they just don't work with my current needs.
In the future I'd like to get a couple of plastic big mouth bubblers for primary. They seem to be the best of both worlds. Clear, airtight, non-oxygen leaking, big enough to get an arm in for cleaning, droppable, probably less likely to explode with co2 racking compared to glass. But I'd like to invest in expanding my keezer capabilities first. External gas, 4 kegs inside without collar and tap towers, 6 kegs inside with collar and towers for front mounted taps, 6 and towers, oh the possibilities. As long as I'm done with opening the lid and fighting with a picnic faucet it'll make me happy.
My father (and my first couple batches) were a bottling bucket primary for a week, 2 weeks in clearing vessel (carboy), then bottled from the bucket. No infections for either of us. The spigot isn't right at the bottom, but I'm sure you could drill where you'd like it to be and/or use a pick up tube.
Cleaning and sanitizing the spigot took just as long as doing the rest of the bucket. Perhaps longer. While not a difficult task it was time consuming because I knew that it was an ideal infection spawning location.
OP
OP
I don't use a spigot on my primary bucket, and I prefer to brew with top-croppable strains so that there's no harvesting from the trub.
What's your process for CO2 transfer? I've been trying to do this with mixed results. What kind of stopper do you use?
I use an orange carboy hood with a gas line connected to the smaller opening (I use 1/8" polyline push-connect tubing for all my gas connections). I use a racking cane in the larger opening.
KegWrangler
Well-Known Member
Just as a side note: If you are worried about the pressure blowing up your carboy you can suck the beer into your keg by attaching a shop vac (or even your household vacuum - I've used both) to the gas-ball lock. You'll still need the carboy hood to allow air into the carboy during transfer (with or without filter as you deem necessary).
That said...I'm back to using plastic buckets for primary and kegs for secondary after I broke the glass carboys (one during cleaning and the other somehow during storage in a closet). Murphy strikes again...he also has it out for my hydrometers...and thermometers...and anything else made from glass.
That said...I'm back to using plastic buckets for primary and kegs for secondary after I broke the glass carboys (one during cleaning and the other somehow during storage in a closet). Murphy strikes again...he also has it out for my hydrometers...and thermometers...and anything else made from glass.
Whaaa! You're brave! I would never get a vacuum cleaner hose anywhere near my open fermentors. Those things harbor the worst of evil. Although it sucks, literally, a slight turbulence can cause infection havoc.
I hear you on the buckets. I went "back" to them too. I forgot how easy it is to clean and transport them. And if you drop them by accident nothing disastrous will happen.
KegWrangler
Well-Known Member
No no it's ok, the fermentation is protected by a magical blanket or "binky" if you prefer the scientific term.
I never had an infection with the vacuum method but I only used it for a few batches before I switched back.
Just wondering, are people using steel wool, or chainsaws or an alligator on their buckets to get scratches? I use a plastic dish brush and soap to clean with...can't fathom where all these scratches are coming from?
I never had an infection with the vacuum method but I only used it for a few batches before I switched back.
Just wondering, are people using steel wool, or chainsaws or an alligator on their buckets to get scratches? I use a plastic dish brush and soap to clean with...can't fathom where all these scratches are coming from?
I use an orange carboy hood with a gas line connected to the smaller opening (I use 1/8" polyline push-connect tubing for all my gas connections). I use a racking cane in the larger opening.
Almost the same setup I've got. I have problems keeping the cap from blowing off the carboy. I have to really hold it down.
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If .5 psi scares you, stick to siphons...
Cheers!
Cheers!
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Amazing what entertains some folks, but enjoy the wait
Cheers!
ps: I have something cooking that'll be ready in a week or so that'll make your brain 'splode
Cheers!
ps: I have something cooking that'll be ready in a week or so that'll make your brain 'splode
I only ferment beer in a bucket with a spigot, i.e. I don't secondary.
Spigot is easy to clean, just unscrew the plastic nut inside the bucket and remove the entire thing. Drop it in your sanitiser bucket for a few minutes. No big deal.
Spigot makes bottling a piece of cake, just push a silicone hose onto it and you're done. Spigot doesn't do anything to help yeast harvest because it sits intentionally just a bit above the flocculation line.
I save my glass vessels for cider and wine making.
OP
OP
I keep thinking aboit adding a spigot to my prkmary bucket. How do you stop it sucking up trub? I suppose it can be installed a couple inches up, but then I'd have to tilt quite a bit to get the last few pints.
The spigot needs to be high enough up that the exit point is a little bit higher than the bottom of the bucket, otherwise you run into all sorts of little difficulties.
Don't you get some yeast and trub sucking up that way, or is the spigot way above the trub line? Most racking canes use a tippy so liquid enters from the top, preventing suction from below, where the yeast/trub layer is.
When racking I tip the bucket too, to get most beer out, except for a pint or 2 I need to swirl up the slurry for yeast harvest.
There are differently built spigots, and I'm not sure which you're using, but the rotating spigots we get here mostly, consist of two 3/4" plastic barrels rotating within each other, where bugs can hide in between. Ask me how I know.
I always put them in boiling water first so they soften up a bit and I can push them apart. Then clean and sanitize. The rubber washer can harbor mold (black spots) over time. This is the main reason I keep those parts under Starsan all the time or store them thoroughly dried. My bottling bucket has a few inches of Starsan in it, perpetually, although after I started kegging I haven't used it much. Maybe time to dry it out.
I use an Italian spigot that doesn't sit any higher than it needs - the spout opening doesn't even clear the ground so it needs to hang over a ledge, never had a problem with it sucking yeast or trub. I clean my bucket with water when I finish a batch and then with sanitiser before I start a batch.
I use an Italian spigot that doesn't sit any higher than it needs - the spout opening doesn't even clear the ground so it needs to hang over a ledge, never had a problem with it sucking yeast or trub. I clean my bucket with water when I finish a batch and then with sanitiser before I start a batch.
Yup, that's the same bug trap spigot alright. Look between those 2 barrels that make up the rotating body. There's a small space...
I don't know where you people live, but we simply do not have all of these problems with infections and molds and bugs here like you collectively describe and fear. Personally, I think that it's just FUD - I don't really believe it. I've never had one and I've made _a lot_ of batches of various things. I don't boil sugar, DME, hop pellets, nothing... just toss them right in to my cider, wine or beer and it always turns out fine - no pellicles, no mysterious floating white clusters, nothing like that ever.
bja
Well-Known Member
A lot of this stuff gets repeated over and over again so many times that people often become paranoid even if they've never had a problem.
I drive to work everyday and have never had an accident. I don't understand why anyone would care about seatbelts when accidents are obviously so rare. I mean, in 8 years or working across town I haven't ever had one.
Just some food for thought.
bja
Well-Known Member
I drive to work everyday and have never had an accident. I don't understand why anyone would care about seatbelts when accidents are obviously so rare. I mean, in 8 years or working across town I haven't ever had one.
You're comparing an auto accident and possibly someone's life to a $25 batch of beer? Surely you can do better than that.
bja
Well-Known Member
What does that have to do with infected beer?
hunter_le five
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I drive to work everyday and have never had an accident. I don't understand why anyone would care about seatbelts when accidents are obviously so rare. I mean, in 8 years or working across town I haven't ever had one.
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Honestly, if you read the news every day you'll come to realize The World runs on flawed logic 
Cheers!
Cheers!
What happened to this thread?
Next poster, do me a favor and go back to the beginning and see what it's about. Then post on that. Thanks!
Next poster, do me a favor and go back to the beginning and see what it's about. Then post on that. Thanks!
"Nothing goin' on here, Officer. Just out for a stroll."
Cheers!
Cheers!
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It's all a matter of personal preference. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :cross:
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