White labs flex cell

[hadabar]

So what does everybody think about white labs new packaging? Interested in hearing everyone's opinions...

In case you haven't seen...

White Labs' FlexCell™ Process and PurePitch™ Pack…: http://youtu.be/mrgtDzq_zH8

 

[LKABrewer]

Looks like this is only for commercial applications, the homebrewers will keep getting vials.

 

[hadabar]

I don't think so... since commercial brewers dont receive yeast in vials...

 

[sandyeggoxj]

That seems like a pretty interesting process. I will have to go look for some more info. Thanks for sharing.

 

[satph]

First comment under the video: ""We are looking into homebrew packaging but don't have any news to share right now. Those will remain in vials for the time being." - White Labs"

 

[Roondy888]

I think it would be awesome if they start making it for homebrewers! Cool idea

 

[ingchr1]

I just came across these in the current issue of Zymurgy, and they are going to be available for homebrewers (http://www.whitelabs.com/homebrewernews). I wonder if they are all directly pitchable with no recommended starter (for a normal 5 gallon batch)? I also wonder what the opinion of the community will be on pitching these directly or making a starter? The popular opinion seams to be to make a starter for liquid yeast to at least proof it, regardless of the manufactures use instructions.

 

[tagz]

It's the same amount of cells as the vials. So whatever you did before should work. If you listen to Chris White starters under 2 liters have no effect on growth, but it seems to be a minority opinion. Kind of gives you the impression that he's just trying to sell more yeast.

 

[Beernik]

I listened to White on the Beeramith podcast. They are replacing the vials.

I started looking for people to bum old vials off of because I want them for yeast banking.

 

[kh54s10]

I looked at the link and it appears rollout is beginning in the fall of 2014 for both commercial and homebrewing. So you should be seeing these soon.

To me it is the same as a vial just different packaging.

It will be similar to a Wyeast pack (difference in breathe-ability of the plastic?) except there is no nutrient pack.

I believe the homebrewer pack will contain the same amount of yeast as the vials. So, although they say they are straight pitchable, you should be making starters unless you brew is low gravity.

I will not care much how the yeast is packaged as long as it is good. The new system sounds like it will make for a more sterile environment for the yeast. A little environmental friendliness is good though!

 

[Poobah58]

Biggest difference it that you wont have to worry losing any yeast when you open it! Those vials can really suck when opened!

 

[ingchr1]

I believe the homebrewer pack will contain the same amount of yeast as the vials. So, although they say they are straight pitchable, you should be making starters unless you brew is low gravity.

But why? The package of WLP001 that they show says to direct pitch unless the gravity is over 1.070 or the yeast is beyond it's date, then make a starter.

 

[LKABrewer]

But why? The package of WLP001 that they show says to direct pitch unless the gravity is over 1.070 or the yeast is beyond it's date, then make a starter.

It also says to pitch at 70, in effect making your beer the starter.

 

[kh54s10]

But why? The package of WLP001 that they show says to direct pitch unless the gravity is over 1.070 or the yeast is beyond it's date, then make a starter.

I don't know why the yeast companies say you can direct pitch in 5 gallons at 1.060 or below. If you search around, you can find videos and articles where even their technicians recommend starters for anything over 1.040.

1.040 to 1.050 is the more accepted cut off for making starters. I make a starter whenever I use liquid yeast. The only difference is the size of the starter required based on the gravity of the recipe and the freshness of the yeast.

You are concerned with cell counts. A vial or pack contain about 100 billion on the day they are packaged. They start dying off right away. So unless you have a yeast almost directly off the production line or a very low gravity beer you should make a starter.

If you don't, you will get beer. When you pitch too few yeast cells they produce off flavors while reproducing then struggle to clean up after they have sufficient amounts to ferment the beer.

Pitch the proper amount of viable yeast cells and you will make your good beer better.

Check out these sites:
http://www.mrmalty.com/
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[Jaybird]

I fear I am going to have to either have less liquid yeast on hand because of the size and shape of them.. Or buy another yeast fridge.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

There is a white labs page I think I saw, it was a link from BYO I believe. They are able to package it easier in this new way, saving money I'm sure but there is no difference in the product.

 

[bondra76]

Digging this thread up.

I bought three yeast packs from White Labs in the new packaging.

I am not impressed. I mean it sounds like the packaging is a better environment for the yeast to grow in, but getting it out is a complete pain. I noticed that there is a lot of liquid and a pretty firm yeast cake on the inside of these things.

Every single pack I opened one of my three packs I lost some liquid right off the bat. When emptying them, I basically found that rolling them like a tube of toothpaste was the best way to extract all of the yeast from the package.

It's just not very user friendly in my opinion. This packaging actually makes me more of a Wyeast fan than ever before. In my opinion this new packaging is like New Coke - bad idea.

 

[TWAL]

Digging this thread up.

I bought three yeast packs from White Labs in the new packaging.

I am not impressed. I mean it sounds like the packaging is a better environment for the yeast to grow in, but getting it out is a complete pain. I noticed that there is a lot of liquid and a pretty firm yeast cake on the inside of these things.

Every single pack I opened one of my three packs I lost some liquid right off the bat. When emptying them, I basically found that rolling them like a tube of toothpaste was the best way to extract all of the yeast from the package.

It's just not very user friendly in my opinion. This packaging actually makes me more of a Wyeast fan than ever before. In my opinion this new packaging is like New Coke - bad idea.

This is exactly what I came here to find,If anyone else had a similar opinion of these things as I did.I completely agree,these things are a HUGE pain in the ass !!

1st I didn't realize there was inner and outer packaging,not a big deal but I had no idea how much yeast was still in there because I couldn't see anything.I can chalk that up to a learning curve.

I got that off and the only thing it helped was to view the yeast that would not exit the package.I tried to press it out and would just keep getting sucked back in.I finally cut the other end off and there was still sludge that wouldn't move,kept trying to pinch it out eventually it hit my finger then dropped in flask.
I can only hope my finger was properly sanitized...

Since I've become sold on Wyeast I'm not too concerned but there are 3 or 4 strains I can't get from Wyeast that will force me to buy White Labs however if it comes down to a choice 1056 or 001 or any other they both offer there really isn't any reason to buy 001 when I can buy the original easier package to open,not to mention w/ the newer companies offering higher cell counts I think it will be easy to avoid this pain in my ass in the future.

 

[Jaybird]

This is exactly what I came here to find,If anyone else had a similar opinion of these things as I did.I completely agree,these things are a HUGE pain in the ass !!

1st I didn't realize there was inner and outer packaging,not a big deal but I had no idea how much yeast was still in there because I couldn't see anything.I can chalk that up to a learning curve.

I got that off and the only thing it helped was to view the yeast that would not exit the package.I tried to press it out and would just keep getting sucked back in.I finally cut the other end off and there was still sludge that wouldn't move,kept trying to pinch it out eventually it hit my finger then dropped in flask.
I can only hope my finger was properly sanitized...

Since I've become sold on Wyeast I'm not too concerned but there are 3 or 4 strains I can't get from Wyeast that will force me to buy White Labs however if it comes down to a choice 1056 or 001 or any other they both offer there really isn't any reason to buy 001 when I can buy the original easier package to open,not to mention w/ the newer companies offering higher cell counts I think it will be easy to avoid this pain in my ass in the future.

Its funny because in my store there is a solid line of the lovers and the haters. about 50% of the people that are using them now totally love them. The other 50% have the exact same things to say as you.

Personally right now I am not a fan either! Fortunately I am more not a fan because of the way they rolled out their inventory over the yeast itself but either way, not a fan so far.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jthornburgh]

I have used 090, and 005 in these packs, The starters that I have made with them gave me far more growth than what I had gotten from 029 that was in a vial, and 2 generations after that.

 

[bob1852]

Not a fan for the same reasons posted. Too much of a pain to get all the product out.

At least with the vials, you could dump a bit of starter wort back in the vial, cap and shake and empty (if needed). No way to do that with the pouch...

 

[Jthornburgh]

Not a fan for the same reasons posted. Too much of a pain to get all the product out.

At least with the vials, you could dump a bit of starter wort back in the vial, cap and shake and empty (if needed). No way to do that with the pouch...

I let them warm to room temp, shaking every five or ten minutes, and then giving a really good shake before opening, and everything came out without a problem. Both of the ones that I have used were less than a month old if that matters.

 

[TWAL]

I let them warm to room temp, shaking every five or ten minutes, and then giving a really good shake before opening, and everything came out without a problem. Both of the ones that I have used were less than a month old if that matters.

Mine was less than a month also,in fact it was 2 weeks old.
I warmed to room temp (as I always do) and shook it ...

As someone else mentioned I really wanted to backwash it w/ the starter,I could hardly get the plastic to part open without sticking something else in there I would need to sanitize.

It made no difference,all my problems were despite the fact I did everything that should help.

If I am forced to use one again I will sanitize a small funnel and a few other items to have ready as well as have a small jar of starter ready to clean the package out.

Again,it's just a huge pain in the ass.

 

[Biobrewer]

Mine was less than a month also,in fact it was 2 weeks old.
I warmed to room temp (as I always do) and shook it ...

As someone else mentioned I really wanted to backwash it w/ the starter,I could hardly get the plastic to part open without sticking something else in there I would need to sanitize.

It made no difference,all my problems were despite the fact I did everything that should help.

If I am forced to use one again I will sanitize a small funnel and a few other items to have ready as well as have a small jar of starter ready to clean the package out.

Again,it's just a huge pain in the ass.

Honestly, I think you do yourself a slight disservice by "backwashing" the cap and vial or the new package. All you're doing is introducing more transfers for a negligible number of cells (probably for at most a measly 10-20 million cells) that will have no effect on the final cell concentration at all and only increase the risk of contamination.

Let's take the most extreme case which is you loose 10% of the cells, 10 billion out of 100 billion. If you make a 1 gallon starter with 90 billion cells and 100 billion cells on a stir plate, you'll end up with 647 billion cells and 656 billion cells respectively. Like I said, negligible even in an extreme example. I'd guess there is literally no difference. If you look at an example that I think is closer to reality where you're at most losing 100 million cells by not "backwashing", if you make a 1 gallon starter with 99.9 billion cells and 100 billion cells on a stir plate, you'll end up with 656 billion cells for both.

If thre is a huge amount of yeast in the pouch after pouring it out, all you need to do is shake a little more to get everything resuspended.

 

[slcalex]

I'll take less user friendly packaging for better yeast vitality any day.

I have had great success with the new packaging without starters.

 

[TWAL]

If thre is a huge amount of yeast in the pouch after pouring it out, all you need to do is shake a little more to get everything resuspended.

That's kind of the point everyone is making here,you can't just re-shake the pouch there's nothing left in there but the sludge that is stuck.

 

[Biobrewer]

That's kind of the point everyone is making here,you can't just re-shake the pouch there's nothing left in there but the sludge that is stuck.

Well, the yeast is the same that was in the vials, so I can't imagine that's the issue. This should be even easier to break up though as you can squeeze the very bottom of the pouch to break it free. I guess all I can say is if it's stuck, keep shaking! You'll resuspend it eventually. It's pretty easy to tell if thre is yeast left on the bottom if you hold it up to the light before opening. I've used it with WLP001 and WLP002, and it worked great. Just shook and pitched. Some may just take more... persuasion.