White Grape juice wine gives hangover? Does it age out?

[meatheadmike]

I made a small one gallon experimental batch using store bought white grape juice. At bottling time, the stuff had a really strong rubbing alcohol smell... and after taking only a few sips, I felt really tired and out of it. Like I had a hangover but without even being drunk.

The next day I used some of it to cook. Made a white wine lemon sauce, which tasted pretty good but after eating it, I had the same headache/hangover symptoms.

I was reading a bit about fusels, congeners and higher alcohols which are apparently a result of stressed fermentations.... but if those were the cause of the hangover symptoms, wouldn't those evaporate just about immediately with the rest of the alcohol while cooking?


Has anyone experienced something this before... what substance in the wine could cause this. I will be dumping the batch, but just curious if whatever poison in there eventually ages out?

 

[meatheadmike]

I should also mention a couple of brewing fouls were committed when making this small batch:

The Original gravity was very high... lots of sugar was added
I didn't use an airlock, instead after fermentation, I sprayed the top with private preserve and used a screw cap (not screwed all the way)
Used Red Star Primeer Cuvee Champaign yeast (same strain as Lalvin EC-1118).. which has a high alcohol tolerance
Temperature of the room was high 60s, low 70s

 

[k-moe]

Alcohol does not evarporate very quickly while cooking. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/11/alcohol-doesnt-really-cook-out-of-food-in-most-cases/
I think what you really need to do is revisit your fermentation and sugar feeding to reduce the percentage of fusel alcohol that is produced.

 

[torilen]

Sorry to get off subject - but you found white grape juice without preservatives? What brand? I've looked at several brands, and all straight white grape juices I can find have preservatives, which, if I understand correctly, means no fermentation. I did find a Welch's White Grape Cherry, but no straight white.

Thanks
Matthew

 

[theDREWery]

A major stressor during fermentation, especially in high gravity musts, is low nutrients. Yeast need quite a diverse amount of vitamins and minerals, so look into some nutrient additives, such as Fermaid K, Fermaid O, and diammonium phosphate (DAP).

Alternatively, many have had success with boiled bread yeast (to provide some amino acids) and/or rasins.

If you're looking to make a higher alcohol wine, start with low sugar, and add a little more every time it slows to a crawl. You can track the progress of fermentation with a hydrometer. They're inexpensive but fragile. Get two, learn to calibrate and use them.

And cooking wine will only remove about 50% of the alcohol on a good day. Sulfur sensitivity may be another possibility, but if frozen potatoes don't kill you, you're not sulfur sensitive.

 

[fuelish]

Sorry to get off subject - but you found white grape juice without preservatives? What brand? I've looked at several brands, and all straight white grape juices I can find have preservatives, which, if I understand correctly, means no fermentation. I did find a Welch's White Grape Cherry, but no straight white.

Thanks
Matthew

I found preservative free organic (if you can believe the label) white grape juice at our local Kroger store in the organic section, not in the usual juice aisle ... Santa Cruz brand....didn't make a wine, though, used a gallon of it in a 5 gallon sparkling mead (pyment) along with a few lbs of white grapes - wife declares it a "you have to make that again," so I guess it came out OK
It's not cheap, but....it's just filtered water and white grape juice concentrate, nothing else, according to the label.

 

[meatheadmike]

Alcohol does not evarporate very quickly while cooking. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/11/alcohol-doesnt-really-cook-out-of-food-in-most-cases/
I think what you really need to do is revisit your fermentation and sugar feeding to reduce the percentage of fusel alcohol that is produced.

Thanks, didn't realize it could take that long for for alcohols or fusels to burn out. Yea I cooked it for about 15-20 minutes so according to that link maybe 35%-40% was retained. Can't believe I still felt the effects though considering not much was used... I suppose fusels are really potent and nasty.

Anyway would you know if that stuff eventually ages out of the wine, or is there nothing to do with the batch but pour it down the drain?

 

[meatheadmike]

Sorry to get off subject - but you found white grape juice without preservatives? What brand? I've looked at several brands, and all straight white grape juices I can find have preservatives, which, if I understand correctly, means no fermentation. I did find a Welch's White Grape Cherry, but no straight white.

Thanks
Matthew

Welches does make a straight white, so does Langers. The one I used for this batch happend to be crappy Shop Rite brand. I believe all of them have citric acid and potassium metabisulfite added to help preserve, but they still will ferment as long as they don't have any sorbates.

 

[lumpher]

If it is fusel alcohol, and that's what it sounds like, it will not age out. Fusels are usually a product of fermenting too high, and you fermented in the high 60's to low 70's, though, and that is DEFINITELY not too high.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Did you add sulfite (meta\campden) if so, how much did you add, and when did you add it?
You might be sensitive to sulfites, I have several friends that are sensitive or allergic to sulfites and had just about given up drinking wine until they had mine.
I add meta to my wine, but just the bare minimum, and almost never right before bottling, I haven't experienced any headaches or hangovers from my wine nor have my friends that had experienced the whole gamut of sulfite sensitive reactions.

I look forward to your reply.

 

[meatheadmike]

Did you add sulfite (meta\campden) if so, how much did you add, and when did you add it?
You might be sensitive to sulfites, I have several friends that are sensitive or allergic to sulfites and had just about given up drinking wine until they had mine.
I add meta to my wine, but just the bare minimum, and almost never right before bottling, I haven't experienced any headaches or hangovers from my wine nor have my friends that had experienced the whole gamut of sulfite sensitive reactions.

I look forward to your reply.

I use a K-Metabisulfite & water mixture to sanitize all my equipment and also added a small amount of K-Metabisulfite after fermentation was finished, but I don't think I have a sulfite sensitivity because I've done this with other batches and haven't had this problem. Plus I've never had this problem with store bought wines or jucies that have Metabisulfite.

I'm guessing it was probably fusels. Couldn't believe how strong and toxic that stuff is... just a few sips and I had some hangover like symptoms which I still kind of felt the next day.

Will try and do stuff more by the book next time.

 

[buMbLeB]

I have no real advice, but I once had a microbrewed stout that gave me one of the worst hangover headaches of my life, with less than one pint, AS I was drinking it! Yet I'm not generally sensitive or prone to hangovers, so these things do happen.

Sorry to get off subject - but you found white grape juice without preservatives? What brand? I've looked at several brands, and all straight white grape juices I can find have preservatives, which, if I understand correctly, means no fermentation. I did find a Welch's White Grape Cherry, but no straight white.

I just finished off my first batch of Welch's wine - one red and one white. I only read the label on the red when buying, and was disappointed to find that the white had sulphites. I almost gave it up, but then some reading convinced me to try anyway - I drank a bit, shook the bottle really good for a few minutes, then left it under a taut paper towel for about 6-8 hours to try and evaporate off the badness. Fermentation took off immediately under airlock, possibly more vigorous than the concord, and fermented dry in 6 days with ec-1118 champagne yeast. No sugar added, about 9.5%, and quite tasty, so it can be done.

 

[torilen]

Thanks to you two, about the white grape. Maybe I'll try that next time. I already have the white grape cherry, so I'll have to go with that for now.

 

[Yooper]

I have no real advice, but I once had a microbrewed stout that gave me one of the worst hangover headaches of my life, with less than one pint, AS I was drinking it! Yet I'm not generally sensitive or prone to hangovers, so these things do happen.



I just finished off my first batch of Welch's wine - one red and one white. I only read the label on the red when buying, and was disappointed to find that the white had sulphites. I almost gave it up, but then some reading convinced me to try anyway - I drank a bit, shook the bottle really good for a few minutes, then left it under a taut paper towel for about 6-8 hours to try and evaporate off the badness. Fermentation took off immediately under airlock, possibly more vigorous than the concord, and fermented dry in 6 days with ec-1118 champagne yeast. No sugar added, about 9.5%, and quite tasty, so it can be done.

Wine yeast is very tolerant of sulfites, and they won't inhibit fermentation in appropriate amounts.

The things to look for in grape juice (or anything, really) is sodium benzoate, or potassium sorbate. They will inhibit and prevent fermentation. Sulfite/sulphite/sodium metabisulfite/potassium metabisulfite will not.

 

[buMbLeB]

Wine yeast is very tolerant of sulfites, and they won't inhibit fermentation in appropriate amounts.

The things to look for in grape juice (or anything, really) is sodium benzoate, or potassium sorbate. They will inhibit and prevent fermentation. Sulfite/sulphite/sodium metabisulfite/potassium metabisulfite will not.

It's all true! I googled around and figured it out a bit, there's a lot to learn making booze. And here I thought I'd be killing brain cells instead of growing them.