Which Conical to buy?

[Jukas]

So I'm in the market for a conical, likely in the 14g range for 11 gallon batches.

I'm looking at four but am having a hard time making a decision.

1) Blichmann 14.5g Tri - Clamp.
Price: $746.99 delivered. (AHB 1 day 10% off Sale, have to order July 2nd)

Pros:
Blichman makes high quality stuff
Rotating racking arm
Includes tri clamp fittings.
Compact size = easier to find ferm chamber
Great design, folding handles, corny style lid for yeast/dry hopping etc.
Made in the US?

Cons:
Threaded fittings, people have reported them leaking.
Rack & Dump come with ball valves, extra cost to replace with butterfly.
Accessories are expensive ($120 for a blowoff?)

2) Stout short 14.5 gal with 3" TC x 1.5" port.
Price: $630ish + $80 shipping. Approx $710 delivered.

Pros:
Sanitary welds.
Price includes butterfly valves & blow off adapter
Compact size
Rotating racking arm.

Cons:
Long lead time
Made in China
6 month Warranty

3) Morebeer Be 14.5gal
Price: $829 + $88 tax. Approx $917 delivered.

Pros:
Sanitary welds
I like their lid clamp.
Conical is removable from stand.
Includes tri clap fittings, butterfly and racking arm with sample valve.

Cons:
Long lead time.
One of the most expensive options.

4) Brewhemoth 20gal with IC option.
Price: $774, unknown on shipping.

Pros:
Would easily handle 10g batches and scale up to 1/2bbl.
IC allows for the conical to be placed anywhere in my house, and eliminates need for a fermentation chamber for the conical.
Quick lead time.

Cons:
Doesn't come with any tri clamp fittings, adding at least $100 to the cost.
Requires CIP and another cooler and pump. Cost savings on a ferm chamber would be negated by these.
No rotating racking arm & sample valve.
Not sure how effective it would really be for a 5 gallon batch.

The Morebeer seems to be the nicest, but also the most expensive once you get a ferm chamber. The stout is likely out as it's almost the cost of the blichmann and if I'm going to pay that much I'm not likely to wait 2 months for it.

The brewhemoth is really tempting as I don't want to be tied to a ferm chamber (and the MB Peltier is out at $1700+) but while the flexability to scale up to 1/2bbl is nice, it seems unlikely I would ever do so.

So what's a dude to do?

 

[BigB]

Are you sure the Stout is "Made in China?" I was pretty sure those were manufactured in Portland - not merely distributed. Also, my club ordered one from them, and we had it within 10 days, so that isn't a long lead time IMHO. I personally like the Stout Tank and the Blichmann. I had an interesting discussion about the weldless design with a several experienced brewers a while back regarding this issue. The consensus was that the weldless design was nice in that you could clean them better than the welded ones because the welds can harbor some nasties if the welds aren't super clean and smooth. I did like the Stout tank though... the welds seem pretty decent...not at all like some of the cheaper tanks that definitely come from China and are sold on Ebay.

Also, whatever you buy, be sure to clean the piss out of it as they have oils and crud on them from manufacturing...those that don't clean like crazy almost always complain that the first couple of batches taste off.

 

[Jukas]

Are you sure the Stout is "Made in China?" I was pretty sure those were manufactured in Portland - not merely distributed. Also, my club ordered one from them, and we had it within 10 days, so that isn't a long lead time IMHO. I personally like the Stout Tank and the Blichmann. I had an interesting discussion about the weldless design with a several experienced brewers a while back regarding this issue. The consensus was that the weldless design was nice in that you could clean them better than the welded ones because the welds can harbor some nasties if the welds aren't super clean and smooth. I did like the Stout tank though... the welds seem pretty decent...not at all like some of the cheaper tanks that definitely come from China and are sold on Ebay.

Yup I'm sure. I've also heard his quality is better than typical ebay Chinese conicals, but all his conicals are from China. Your club must have ordered an in stock one, and what I'm shopping for is considered custom so it has to wait for him to put a production order in.

When I initially inquired in May, he told me if I got an order in then it would be July, so that's basically a 2 month turn around.

I really like the stout tanks, the problem for me is that once I start customizing it the cost becomes really close to what I can get a blichmann for with the 10% coupon so it makes less sense to have to wait for it.

 

[igotsand]

I have B3 26 gallon conical...
I love it, got most of the upgrades also..ok got all the upgrades :get the legs and wheels ext and the c02 adapter..I can keg 20 gallons in 25 minutes, all under a blanket of c02!!
The yeast harvestor is awesome!
Igotsand

 

[apparatus]

+1, for the more beer.

 

[Golddiggie]

Have you looked into what Sabco offers???

 

[Jukas]

I have B3 26 gallon conical...
I love it, got most of the upgrades also..ok got all the upgrades :get the legs and wheels ext and the c02 adapter..I can keg 20 gallons in 25 minutes, all under a blanket of c02!!
The yeast harvestor is awesome!
Igotsand

Yeah. The more beer ultimate conical look really nice but I'm not dropping $2800 on one

So far I seem to have it narrowed down to the more beer conical or the brewhemoth.

The more beef strikes me as a more professional grade conical, the brewhemoth a more DIY version.

One aspect that really appeals to m is the brewhemoth Immersion chiller,As being able to avoid buying a term chamber would be nice.

 

[Jukas]

Have you looked into what Sabco offers???

I have, and while it looks nice, I'd prefer an actual conical.

 

[DaleP]

Another plus on the Brewhemoth is its capable of handling over 100 psi! Pressurizable fermentations, easier beer transfer with CO2.

 

[boo boo]

Yup I'm sure. I've also heard his quality is better than typical ebay Chinese conicals, but all his conicals are from China. .

I have one and yes they are from China. I ended up paying duty as they were not NAFTA like they would have been had they been made in the USA.
Still I'm pleased with the quality and the look and function friendly unit from Stouts.
They were a lot cheaper option to me vs the others and with tri-clamp fitting a joy to use.

 

[jcaudill]

I have a Brewhemoth and let me tell you why I would go this route:

1) It's custom built when you order it in Missouri.

2) It's nice quality stainless, and a nice design.

3) There is a Tri-Clamp version of it - I have this one.

4) The IC works brilliantly - in 5, 10 or 15 gallon batches. I've used it all three batch sizes with my glycol chiller and it's been brilliant.

5) It holds pressure awesomely (is that a word?!) I spund, and have had absolutely no issue with pressure build ~ 17 up to 19 psi.

6) The racking port is well positioned.

7) And really the most important to me: Dale and Josh are two great guys to deal with. There is always someone on the other end of the horn and these days that's pretty invaluable.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jukas]

Another plus on the Brewhemoth is its capable of handling over 100 psi! Pressurizable fermentations, easier beer transfer with CO2.

I had already planned on transferring under low psi. What's the advantage of pressurized fermentations with a sounding valve?

 

[Jukas]

4) The IC works brilliantly - in 5, 10 or 15 gallon batches. I've used it all three batch sizes with my glycol chiller and it's been brilliant.

Whats it's chilling performance like without glycol? The IC is one of the primary reasons I'm seriously leaning towards the brewhemoth, but I didn't see a glycol chiller in my near future.

 

[jcaudill]

Jukas -

The advantage of pressurized fermentation is being able to carbonate the beer naturally. You cap the blow off when you're about 1-2 degrees plato from your target and recapture the CO2 which will in turn carbonate the beer. This is the Rheinheitsgebot way of carbonating.

As for the chiller performance: the problem really isn't with the chiller unit itself. Say you run cold water into it - it will perfect every bit as well as glycol at the same temp. The problem is with the heat you're drawing off. If you use say a bath of water, eventually the temp will rise to the point you'll be sending warm water through the fermenter. That is why I opted to spend the money for a glycol power pack in the end.

Hope this helps!

 

[Jukas]

Youch. I started pricing out all the tri clamp fittings I'd need and it dramatically adds to the cost.

Brewhemoth with IC @ $774.

Brewhemoth

for the bottom valve: $60.25

1.5 inch tri clover butterfly valve $53
1.5 inch Silicone Gasket $1.25 each
1/1.5 inch tri clover clamp $6


for the racking valve: $92.50

1 inch tri clover butterfly valve $49.00
1/1.5 inch tri clover clamp (times two) $12
1 inch EPDM Sanitary Gasket (times two) $2.50 each
1/1.5 inch sample valve $29

for the top: $91.75

1/1.5 in tri clover cap $3
1/1.5 inch tri clover clamp (times three) $18
1 inch EPDM Sanitary Gasket (times three) $3.75
1" Tri Clover Clamp Instrument Tee $20
1/1.5 inch Tri Clover x 1/2 inch hose barb $13
1/1.5 inch Tri Clover Thermowell 24" $34

Total: $244.50

That's over $1k by the time all is said and done.

More Beer 14.5g with 10% coupon = $805 * 9.5% Tax = $76.53 for a subtotal of $881.53

add in tri clamps that wouldn't be included and we come to $973.25

for the top: $91.75

1/1.5 in tri clover cap $3
1/1.5 inch tri clover clamp (times three) $18
1 inch EPDM Sanitary Gasket (times three) $3.75
1" Tri Clover Clamp Instrument Tee $20
1/1.5 inch Tri Clover x 1/2 inch hose barb $13
1/1.5 inch Tri Clover Thermowell 24" $34

In the end that's only a $45 difference, but it adds up quick.

 

[Jukas]

Jukas -

The advantage of pressurized fermentation is being able to carbonate the beer naturally. You cap the blow off when you're about 1-2 degrees plato from your target and recapture the CO2 which will in turn carbonate the beer. This is the Rheinheitsgebot way of carbonating.

Hrm, Wouldn't a lot of the carbonation come out of solution during transfer to keg?

I had assumed I would simply transfer from the conical via a hosebarb and silicone tubing to a corny like I do from a carboy.

As for the chiller performance: the problem really isn't with the chiller unit itself. Say you run cold water into it - it will perfect every bit as well as glycol at the same temp. The problem is with the heat you're drawing off. If you use say a bath of water, eventually the temp will rise to the point you'll be sending warm water through the fermenter. That is why I opted to spend the money for a glycol power pack in the end.

Hope this helps!

Good to know. I had planned on doing an icebath in a cooler as I didn't think glycol was cost effective.

 

[jcaudill]

Bear in mind of a some things:

1) You're talking 22 gallons, versus 14.5 gallons. That is the ability to do a full 1/2BBL ferment, versus a 10 gallon ferment. That's 5 more gallons of beer with no extra effort.

2) There are different ways to go about your fittings that would save a bit of money I think. For example - you can ask the guys at Brewhemoth to put a 1/2" NPT half-coupling in so you can run a shorter thermowell (and probably should). You don't really need a TC instrument tee - you can use a regular NPT tee, just adapt the 1" TC port to 1/4" NPT and then use a 1/4" tee or cross. Then you get a 1/4" ball valve, 1/4" pressure gauge, and pressure relief device. Or if you're not spunding - then you just need a blow off tube and that's it.

3) You cannot spund with the MB fermenter. That sucks.

4) One has IC, the other doesn't. Which means: one you can control the temps, the other zelch.

Just some food for thought.

 

[jcaudill]

Jukas -

The advantage of pressurized fermentation is being able to carbonate the beer naturally. You cap the blow off when you're about 1-2 degrees plato from your target and recapture the CO2 which will in turn carbonate the beer. This is the Rheinheitsgebot way of carbonating.

Hrm, Wouldn't a lot of the carbonation come out of solution during transfer to keg?

I had assumed I would simply transfer from the conical via a hosebarb and silicone tubing to a corny like I do from a carboy.



Good to know. I had planned on doing an icebath in a cooler as I didn't think glycol was cost effective.

No - you setup a closed loop when you transfer. You pressurize the corny to a few pounds above the fermenter, then you bleed it as beer comes in. If you do this right you end up with exactly the same pressure. I have a couple of custom cables that go TC to ball lock connector for example. Excess CO2 from the corny I usually just put back into the fermenter.

The ice bath is what I planned on doing as well. But - you have to have a pretty significantly sized bath to not suffer from the issue I mentioned before. To me - I don't want to worry about this. So the power pack was worth the investment and I plan to be doing this a looooong time.

 

[Jukas]

Bear in mind of a some things:

1) You're talking 22 gallons, versus 14.5 gallons. That is the ability to do a full 1/2BBL ferment, versus a 10 gallon ferment. That's 5 more gallons of beer with no extra effort.

2) There are different ways to go about your fittings that would save a bit of money I think. For example - you can ask the guys at Brewhemoth to put a 1/2" NPT half-coupling in so you can run a shorter thermowell (and probably should). You don't really need a TC instrument tee - you can use a regular NPT tee, just adapt the 1" TC port to 1/4" NPT and then use a 1/4" tee or cross. Then you get a 1/4" ball valve, 1/4" pressure gauge, and pressure relief device. Or if you're not spunding - then you just need a blow off tube and that's it.

3) You cannot spund with the MB fermenter. That sucks.

4) One has IC, the other doesn't. Which means: one you can control the temps, the other zelch.

Just some food for thought.

Thanks for your feedback, it's really appreciated! As for your points

1) Honestly I have no plans to ever go to a 1/2BBL ferment. I will say the flexibility to change my mind in the future would be nice.

2) I thought about asking them to put in a 1/1.5" TC port in the side so I could put in a 4-8" thermowell, but one thing I've heard is that makes cleaning more difficult.

3) Having never spunded I can't say if I'd desire this or not, but having the ability to choose certainly goes in brewhemoths favor!

4) True, I'm just worried that the IC with icebath won't be effective, and that the cost to do a glycol pack would well exceed the cost of a upright freezer, putting me into the situation of needing a fermentation chamber with either.

 

[Jukas]

No - you setup a closed loop when you transfer. You pressurize the corny to a few pounds above the fermenter, then you bleed it as beer comes in. If you do this right you end up with exactly the same pressure. I have a couple of custom cables that go TC to ball lock connector for example. Excess CO2 from the corny I usually just put back into the fermenter.

The ice bath is what I planned on doing as well. But - you have to have a pretty significantly sized bath to not suffer from the issue I mentioned before. To me - I don't want to worry about this. So the power pack was worth the investment and I plan to be doing this a looooong time.

I'm trying to picture how this would work. I'm guessing you have a TC Hose barb to liquid post for racking from the conical to the corny and then a gas QD to a gas QD hooked up to the spunding valve to vent excess CO2 back into the conical?

Any chance of a picture of this setup?

 

[jcaudill]

For this kind of investment - you definitely want to buy as big as you can afford even if you don't plan on it now. Even if you can't brew a full 15 now, maybe you decide to do 10 one day and 5 the next. It's all about the flexibility.

I probably would opt for 1/2" NPT instead of TC but it's up to you. I am not too familiar with TC based wells. I have no idea why that makes cleaning more difficult- I can't rationalize any reason that would be. But I CIP mine.

The ice bath method is no less or no more effective in chilling. The difference is how you're going to chill down the warmer returning water that's drawing off the heat. That's where the real problem is.

 

[jcaudill]

I'm trying to picture how this would work. I'm guessing you have a TC Hose barb to liquid post for racking from the conical to the corny and then a gas QD to a gas QD hooked up to the spunding valve to vent excess CO2 back into the conical?

Any chance of a picture of this setup?

I don't - I'd have to snap it next time I transfer. But mine goes like:

Racking port TC barb, to hose, to barb ball lock connector on the liquid side (fill through the dip tube). Gas side ball lock barb, to hose, to barb on my fermenter. This barb on my fermenter was previously the one I used as my blow off. I also have an inline gauge on the gas side so I can monitor pressure and make sure I'm not building or nor losing pressure in the process.

I'll try and snap a picture of the setup on top of my Brewhemoth and I think it will make perfect sense.

 

[Jukas]

For this kind of investment - you definitely want to buy as big as you can afford even if you don't plan on it now. Even if you can't brew a full 15 now, maybe you decide to do 10 one day and 5 the next. It's all about the flexibility.

Yeah, that's why I wanted at least a 14.5gal conical as I've been doing 5 gal batches and want to be able to go between 5 - 11gal. The ability to go to a 1/2bbl would be nice, but won't be the deal breaker.

I probably would opt for 1/2" NPT instead of TC but it's up to you. I am not too familiar with TC based wells. I have no idea why that makes cleaning more difficult- I can't rationalize any reason that would be. But I CIP mine.

Well, if I was going to have them put a port in the sidewall low enough to measure temps in a 5 gal batch wouldn't a TC fitting make more sense? That way I could remove the thermowell and replace it with a cap when it comes time to CIP?

The ice bath method is no less or no more effective in chilling. The difference is how you're going to chill down the warmer returning water that's drawing off the heat. That's where the real problem is.

True, that's a drawback. How much do the glycol power packs cost though? In the end you have to balance hassle, vs cost vs ????

 

[jcaudill]

They are pricey - as much as the fermenter.

As for the thermowell - no reason to remove it. It just stays there.

 

[Jukas]

I'll try and snap a picture of the setup on top of my Brewhemoth and I think it will make perfect sense.

Thanks for all the info, it's really been a great help! I'd love to see a picture of the top of your brewhemoth as well as the racking & dump ports (just curious to see how people do them) when you have a chance.

 

[jcaudill]

Will do!

 

[luhrks]

You should check Stout's in stock page. He keeps the 14's in stock.

 

[Jukas]

You should check Stout's in stock page. He keeps the 14's in stock.

I understand he keeps his base 7.3 & 14's in stock. However for what I was requesting it was going to be a special order item, that he said would have to get into his next production run. So he doesn't customize them in Portland, he has that work done in China, hence the 2 month lead time.

The price was attractive, but after all the customizations I wanted it would have only been a couple hundred bucks less, and while I anticipated no issues the fact that it only has a six month warranty was a little bothersome.

 

[luhrks]

To be fair, any issues you'd have with a pot/fermenter will be within the first couple of uses if not immediately upon receipt.

 

[Jukas]

To be fair, any issues you'd have with a pot/fermenter will be within the first couple of uses if not immediately upon receipt.

I know and that's why I said I don't really anticipate any issues.. but the flip side to that is also true.. the vendor knows any issues should surface immediately, so why not at least offer an industry standard 1 year warranty?

My main issue with Stout is the very long wait. I don't know if I'll ever want to pressurized ferment, but if so I think that also would be a ding against stout.

I will say though, for everyone I've spoken with about a conical who has a stout has great things to say about them, so I certainly am not a stout hater.

 

[jcaudill]

No offense intended - but I wouldn't buy any Made in China crap. Fittings ok - fabrication not so much. Fermenter's are not something you want to screw around with especially if they'll be under pressure. Frankly after the whole drywall incident everything M.I.C. is scary as hell.

 

[jclucca]

No offense intended - but I wouldn't buy any Made in China crap.

You must not buy much stuff.

 

[skylor60]

Think of it this way, you want to keep jobs here? Spend your money here. The job you save could be your own some day just my 2 cents. Sorry Stouts but If I were buying it would not be yours

 

[jbsengineer]

I would call Morebeer about the long lead time. I ordered my 14G on Tuesday and it is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow! I was surprised when it shipped 1 hour after I ordered!

 

[jcaudill]

You must not buy much stuff.

Believe it or not - most of the time you do have a choice. Sometimes it may not be rational or reasonable. But that doesn't change the fact the option is there.

 

[jcaudill]

Here's a quick snap:


photo (24) by brewerJP

I have a butterfly valve at the dump outlet - a ball valve at the racking port which I normally keep a sampling valve on, and then you see my glycol power pack into the immersion chiller and also the setup I have for blowoff/pressure.

 

[DaleP]

Glycol chillers are nice, but a cheap version is a small chest freezer, 5 cubic feet or so. A temp controller and a submersable pump, fill it with water or glycol solution and your off. I'm using water set at 36 degrees and am capable of chilling two Brewhemoths down easily.

 

[Jukas]

I would call Morebeer about the long lead time. I ordered my 14G on Tuesday and it is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow! I was surprised when it shipped 1 hour after I ordered!

I'm only going off what they list on their website, which is 6-7 weeks. I'm sure it very well could be quicker if they have units already fabricated.

 

[Jukas]

Glycol chillers are nice, but a cheap version is a small chest freezer, 5 cubic feet or so. A temp controller and a submersable pump, fill it with water or glycol solution and your off. I'm using water set at 36 degrees and am capable of chilling two Brewhemoths down easily.

If you're buying a chest freezer specifically to host a water or glycol bath for cooling the IC on the brewhemoth, wouldn't you just be better off buying a stand up freezer for a ferm chamber and getting the non IC version? I suppose if you had multiple conicals than a single chest freezer holding a large glycol bath would be a better option.

I have an email out to brewhemoth to find out what it will cost for some customizations, including adding either a npt or tc port on the sidewall for a thermowell, but apparently at least one of them is on Holiday until Oct (lucky dog!) so who knows what that will do to turnaround time.

If I want to pressurize ferment The brewhemoth seems to be the clear winner. I'm still reading up on the benefits of it and I'm honestly not sure I'd ever do it as Co2 reclamation vs the volume I'm doing isn't even going to be noticeable to my wallet.

 

[thatjonguy]

If you're buying a chest freezer specifically to host a water or glycol bath for cooling the IC on the brewhemoth, wouldn't you just be better off buying a stand up freezer for a ferm chamber and getting the non IC version? I suppose if you had multiple conicals than a single chest freezer holding a large glycol bath would be a better option.

I have an email out to brewhemoth to find out what it will cost for some customizations, including adding either a npt or tc port on the sidewall for a thermowell, but apparently at least one of them is on Holiday until Oct (lucky dog!) so who knows what that will do to turnaround time.

If I want to pressurize ferment The brewhemoth seems to be the clear winner. I'm still reading up on the benefits of it and I'm honestly not sure I'd ever do it as Co2 reclamation vs the volume I'm doing isn't even going to be noticeable to my wallet.

If I recall mine correctly, it was $30 for one 1.5 inch TC fitting on the side of my Brewhemoth.