Where to start?

[eldutcho]

Hi there, I've been lurking in eBrewing section for a few days and I'm tossing around the idea of rigging up some kind of electric system. Right now I brew 2.5 gallon AG batches due to space restrictions. I've always been interested in stuff like this, but have very little practical experience. I find it incredibly hard to understand the concepts of the Electric setups just by looking at diagrams and such. Is there any good books I could check out, websites, etc?
I would think the easiest way to get started would be to simply rig up a pot with an element and go from there towards fancy boxes with displays and buttons.
I guess the title sums this up - Where the heck do you start?
Thanks in Advance!

 

[Double_D]

I'd start here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/
These guys put a huge amount of effort into making this easy and simple (and exceptionally expensive in doing it their way). But everything is broken down step by step. I'm an electrical idiot so that fancy power box they have is beyond me but that's where I started. And for some reason, no one ever talks about this as an option http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3073. Granted, you need two temp controllers but come on, it will cost you at the very least $1200 for just the control box for full automation. This way you're on your way for a little over $400.

 

[rocko123]

Double-d, as a fellow electricity moron, I'll espouse that equipment. I went for the EBCIII just based on the particulars of my system. I'm thrilled with the product, as well as the knowledge and service I've received from the folks at high gravity.

Oh, and eldutcho: I used Kal's design to set my system up. I highly suggest digging into his site and asking him any questions you have (he posts here).

 

[Double_D]

I too am basing my electric setup on Kal's. Minus the stainless steel march 809s ($395/ea on amazon). But all the stainless quick disconnects are surprisingly affordable. I was a little too broad when I said their way was exceptionally expensive and should have said specific aspects (IMO).

 

[tre9er]

What do you want out of an electric setup? There are two (probably more) categories of electric setups, and generally people want one or the other:

1. Just the ability to brew indoors, in larger volumes than the stove would allow, without noxious gasses that propane/NG would create. This assumes not much else changes about your brewing setup, only the method in which you heat liquid.

2. Complete control over every temperature and process via a programmed setup.

I use option 1. I brew exactly as someone with propane or a stove-top would, except I use heating elements. There are no SSR's, no fancy lights, just elements wired to extension cords with male plugs on the ends, plugged-in to GFCI circuits with switches to turn them on or off. I use a thermometer and shut the elements off when my strike water is to temp, same with sparge. I shut one (I have two in each pot, 120v setup) off if the boil is too vigorous, although two drops of fermcap-S has kept all of my boils in check despite being within 2g. of my pot's capacity.

If you want precise control, the ability to walk away for long periods and your system will keep things where they need to be, and either HERMS or RIMS recirculation...you want something more like Kal's setup.

 

[rocko123]

And to piggy back off of that last point: I took the HERMs route and has proven to be my biggest challenge/learning curve, both in the build and on brewing day. But it was worth it because I can keep my temps within range quite easily and my efficiency is improving with every batch.

 

[tre9er]

83% efficiency last batch. Don't even lose a degree an hour in my 70qt. Xtreme MLT. But I'm sure there's a lot of benefits to HERMS because it seems so many people do it.

 

[gr8shandini]

. . . But I'm sure there's a lot of benefits to HERMS because it seems so many people do it.

I'd be interested in some gouge on this as well. The only advantages I can see are:

1. More even temps through the entire grain bed
2. Saving a bit of time since it's pre-vorlaufed
3. Being able to ramp up the temperature

I'd think 1 and 2 are marginal improvements at best and the only time I ever step the temp is when I do a decoction. Of course, maybe I'd do more complex mash profiles if I had the ability.

 

[tre9er]

I'd be interested in some gouge on this as well. The only advantages I can see are:

1. More even temps through the entire grain bed
2. Saving a bit of time since it's pre-vorlaufed
3. Being able to ramp up the temperature

I'd think 1 and 2 are marginal improvements at best and the only time I ever step the temp is when I do a decoction. Of course, maybe I'd do more complex mash profiles if I had the ability.

See, there you go. For me, I just started in January...and while I've made over 100 gallons since then, I'm still working on perfecting beer making. Now, I think I make pretty good beers, and I am careful in every aspect, but I learn something new every day. Until I get high 30's consistently in competitions or everyone can't stop talking about how great my beer is and they're beating down my door...I don't need to worry about HERMS.

 

[Double_D]

Having the perfect mash profile is never going to have people beating down your door. And I'm pretty sure it's not something they judge in competition. HERMS/RIMS/automation and all the iterations surrounding those options are just a way to make it more consistent so you can focus on making everything else better. I'm not saying anyone it's a necessity, but it's a nice option.

 

[tre9er]

Having the perfect mash profile is never going to have people beating down your door. And I'm pretty sure it's not something they judge in competition. HERMS/RIMS/automation and all the iterations surrounding those options are just a way to make it more consistent so you can focus on making everything else better. I'm not saying anyone it's a necessity, but it's a nice option.

My point is that I can make great, popular beer by just honing my skills on my current system...then worry about repeatability with HERMS.

 

[Double_D]

My point is that I can make great, popular beer by just honing my skills on my current system...then worry about repeatability with HERMS.

That was pretty much my point. You just said it better.

 

[lunchbox]

Absolutely you can make good beer without a HERMS system. But a HERMS/RIMS makes repeatibility easier. If you want 154f mash, that's what you'll get each time you brew that beer. I'd bet good money that most, if not all people, aren't going to be able to tell if you hit 155f and it' dropped to 153 in the course of an hour.

 

[tre9er]

Absolutely you can make good beer without a HERMS system. But a HERMS/RIMS makes repeatibility easier. If you want 154f mash, that's what you'll get each time you brew that beer. I'd bet good money that most, if not all people, aren't going to be able to tell if you hit 155f and it' dropped to 153 in the course of an hour.

Yeah, I don't lose a degree overall in my cooler MLT, but I'm sure the outsides are slightly cooler than the insides, maybe half a degree. I wonder if it would be noticeable at all, two batches, 1 degree difference...heck, even the grain we buy isn't 100% identical. Lots vary, hence the lot analysis.

I found out this past week that most of my numbers for extract potential are off based on what the malsters are putting out in lot analysis. Average 2-row extract, for instance, is closer to 36 than 38, often quoted by many softwares/retailers.

Can really throw off your efficiency (or perceived efficiency) if you're using the wrong numbers.

 

[abarnett]

I went electric because I want to be able to brew indoors in summer (too hot outside) and winter (too cold outside).

I went with a control panel and RIMS (vs plain plug-in elements) because it's a hobby, and I really enjoy putting stuff like this together. I'm willing to spend money and time on the equipment because I enjoy that part of the hobby, almost as much as I enjoy the beer that I make.

To each their own -- if you're the DIY type, and have time and money and the desire to learn new skills, then go with a panel and something like RIMS or HERMS. On the other hand, putting your time and money into the ingredients and process may be more important to you, and you should do that instead.

It's just like brewing in general, and you can make it as complicated as you want: from using a pre-hopped no-boil kit, all the way to an all-grain automated brewery with attached yeast lab. But in the end, you'll be making (and then drinking) beer.

 

[mbauer013]

My point is that I can make great, popular beer by just honing my skills on my current system...then worry about repeatability with HERMS.

+1 I've been brewing for close to 7 years now and have a pretty good process, most beers I have entered into competitions have got mid-upper 30's so for me, with no desire to go pro or earn a ninkasi, or really anything else except to enjoy good beer, I have always kept my process as simple as possible.

I am contemplating electric now since the winters in MN get silghtly chilly and over the last 3 months have thought of every iteration of HERMS/RIMS/Hybrid style to see if I thought I could do it and in the end my set up will just be the same as my outdoors set up plus a pump and counterflow chiller. I am going to add variable temp controlling to my electric via the EBC, but just so I can only have one element. I just had to admit that I am a electricity troglodyte and moved on.

 

[tre9er]

...in the end my set up will just be the same as my outdoors set up...

Sounds like me. I brew exactly like anyone who uses propane or stove-top except I flip two light-switches instead of lighting a burner or turning a knob. The rest is up to me.

 

[DavidinTexas]

I am in the process of moving from 5 gal batches to 10 gal and starting the move to electric. I brew on the back porch (out of the rain but outside none the less) and it gets very hot in the summer and can be very cold in the winter. I doubt I can move off the porch - but I can make it easier to come and go. I don't like leaving a propane burner running full blast under the HLT unattended. and it seems you can never take your eyes off the BK. I have a cooler for the MLT and that all seems to work well.

So I'm build and temperature controller for the HLT - set it and forget it - for the strike water and then new temperature set point for the sparge water.

Once done with the sparge I plan to flip the temperature controller in manual and flip a switch to send the electricity to the BK for the boil. that way I can get by with a single 30 amp 220 volt power feed. No more propane hauling around, no more loud burners, and more confidence to sneak back inside every now and again.

Anyway, will be a while before all the parts are ready - will start with the HLT and work forward over time. To me, this is all part of the hobby - so this pat is also fun.

 

[eldutcho]

thanks for all the responses guys, I guess I was just looking for a way to brew without taking up space in my parents' kitchen. More exact temperature control would be neat too. I think I hope to start with a simple heat stick heat stick/temp controller with my BIAB setup, then work towards assembling a fully automated system down the road . I'm kind of surprised at how expensive equipment is, but hopefully I can find a good deal somewhere.

 

[tre9er]

thanks for all the responses guys, I guess I was just looking for a way to brew without taking up space in my parents' kitchen. More exact temperature control would be neat too. I think I hope to start with a simple heat stick heat stick/temp controller with my BIAB setup, then work towards assembling a fully automated system down the road . I'm kind of surprised at how expensive equipment is, but hopefully I can find a good deal somewhere.

Kettles and elements are relatively cheap. Unless you want blichmans. The temp control stuff and tri clover fittings, etc can get pricey.