When is it necessary to invert refined sugars?

[TripleC223]

At what volume do refined sugars begin to lend off-flavors to a batch, and would using inverted sugars instead limit those off-flavors?

I ask because I have noticed a common off-flavor in several of my past extract batches, and I believe that Aldi table sugar may be the culprit. I'm not sure of the sugar's origin (beet, cane, something else, etc.), and I have used up to 15% table sugar for my fermentables with similar results.

Recently, however, I brewed an IPA with less table sugar (6%), and the off-flavor is not present. There could be other variables (hop masking being the most likely), but it's at least set me on the path to experiment further.

And on that note, my last batch was a homemade clone of NB's Le Petite Orange, which calls for 1 pound of Belgian candi sugar. Since I was buying the ingredients myself and didn't want to pay $5 for a pound of candi sugar, I followed instructions to make my own dark-ish inverted sugar (which I learned was comparable). It was a simple procedure using ingredients I already had in my pantry and in doing more research, it seems that using inverted sugars actually leads to fewer off-flavors.

So if I'm intent on using table sugars to keep my brews affordable, would it be beneficial to invert a large batch of sugar and just keep it handy? If I've read (and executed) correctly, the difference in clear and dark homemade "candi" sugar is simply boil time, so I could potentially just make a couple pounds of clear inverted sugar to use in place of table sugar.

Also I just picked up a few pounds of pure cane sugar from the store, so I at least know what kind of sugar I'm dealing with now.

 

[JulietKilo]

You may have read these articles on inversion but here they are in case not. Some here believe cane sugar gets inverted in the wort since heat and acidity are present. My first two high gravity Belgians with 20% cane sugar are still in secondary, so I can't speak of taste yet. I hope it works well since it's 1/10th the cost of Belgian Candi.

https://jaysbrewingblog.com/2012/01/18/belgian-candi-sugar-vs-table-sugar-for-beer/

http://www.fermentarium.com/homebrewing/belgian-candi-vs-table-sugar-for-homebrew-beer/

 

[z-bob]

I have not brewed a tripel yet, but when I do I plan to use Aldi sugar and add it at the beginning of the boil so it can hydrolyze in the kettle. Don't know whether that's a good plan or not. I have used it up to about 6% at the end of the boil without any "cidery" off flavors.

 

[JulietKilo]

I have not brewed a tripel yet, but when I do I plan to use Aldi sugar and add it at the beginning of the boil so it can hydrolyze in the kettle. Don't know whether that's a good plan or not. I have used it up to about 6% at the end of the boil without any "cidery" off flavors.

Is Aldi a brand or type of sugar?

I wondered whether to add the sugar for the full boil to best hydrolyze/invert, or near the end to not darken via maillard reaction, so I did one of each. The full boil batch is quite dark, it looks not much like a triple/strong/blonde, more like a double. The late addition, 10 minutes to flame off, did not darken at all. That said since both are still in secondary I can't speak of flavor yet.

 

[z-bob]

It's a brand. Aldi grocery stores have their own brand of everything. TripleC223 mentioned Aldi, and since it's the same brand I used, I ran with it.

 

[JulietKilo]

Gotcha, cane sugar then, sucrose. I hear in Europe store sugar is beet sugar, which is closer to candi, not sure.

 

[TripleC223]

Yes, Aldi is a grocery chain, and this is their house-brand sugar. There's a fair chance it's beet sugar, which I've read may be more likely to leave unsavory flavor remnants after fermentation.

It's what I used to make the inverted sugar, so I guess this will be a good test.

 

[thehaze]

Yes, Aldi is a grocery chain, and this is their house-brand sugar. There's a fair chance it's beet sugar, which I've read may be more likely to leave unsavory flavor remnants after fermentation.

It's what I used to make the inverted sugar, so I guess this will be a good test.

I have used beet sugar for both boil and bottling. No weird flavours to speak of.

Refined ( white ) cane sugar might be a better option, but it is more expensive. For darker beers, I usuall go with brown/unrefined cane sugar, Demerara or Light/Dark Muscovado. Works pretty great.

I have yet to try the Candy Syrup from CSI, but I will as soon as possible to make a high gravity Belgian Dark Strong Ale a la Pannepot.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Since Aldi are a German supermarket, their house sugar will almost certainly be beet - not only does Germany produce a huge amount of sugar beet, EU import restrictions make cane sugar more expensive, and Aldi never take the expensive option....

 

[BIAB-Tim]

Most of your Sugar in the USA that don't state cane on the packaging is Beet Sugar !

 

[JulietKilo]

Most of your Sugar in the USA that don't state cane on the packaging is Beet Sugar !

I did not know that? I had assumed all US supermarket sugar was cane, not sure why, "big sugar" corps in central/south America I guess? Just looked at my Hannaford brand "granulated sugar" and no mention of source.

Guess it doesn't matter if they are both sucrose and require inversion.

 

[BIAB-Tim]

You can make molasses from beets, but it's usually used as a liquid cattle feed when made from beets, Cane molasses called Back Strap is made from Cain or Saugram