What you need to know about chocolate for brewing

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Chemist here. Sadly, that's the rub. I've not found a great way. It's that whole oil and water not mixing bit.

But I would like to ask for clarification of what you want. Do you want to know how to keep the cocoa butter out of your beer or how to properly extract the flavor contained therein?
 
well i just started out brewing, my second beer i am doing a baltic porter (brewers best kit), and i just want to up the complexities abit, i dont want any over powering flavors taking away from everything else, i got a handle on the extra molasses, and the extra coffee flavor, yet to really research the cardamom and i know its very powerful, i keep thinking i have an idea for the chocolate, but it seems there are various results and a multitude of ideas...., i have raw cacao nibs, from what i have read i would think to roast them, then grind, and put about an oz of it in the secondary, just for alittle more choco flavor, but I am really fascinated by the choco various results, as in the future I would love to make some full out chocolate porters. Thanks for any help
 
FYI, IMHO 1 oz isn't going to add anything. I have 8 oz of roasted nibs in a secondary right now, plus 8 oz were in the mash and I 'think' I notice something.
 
For what it's worth, after several chocolate stout & chocolate porter attempts, I've been most satisfied with:
Adding coco powder in the boil (usually at the 5-10 min mark)
Adding a little bit of vanilla extract as well to compliment the flavor (in general when cooking it's rare to have cocoa powder without also vanilla)
Add some lactose sugar as well (non fermentable, so will add to the sweetness and mouthfeel of this finished beer)

Quantities vary, based on your taste... But I always have the above 3. I stopped using liquid chocolate extract at bottling time because it gave it an "artificial" taste IMHO

Lastly, don't use with too high a gravity beer. With high gravity beers the flavors just tend to get lost and it's not that different from any other imperial stout.
 
rat, i keep hearing that, not to mess too much with high gravity beers, the baltic from brewers best is suppose to be between 7 to 7.5., i keep hearing i should just make as is, alchy, i understand what you are saying but i dont want to overblow the choco taste, its like i want to make a fine wine........ but dont know how too?!?!?
 
Sebowski said:
Southern Tier Choklat is the chocolate-iest beer I've ever had and it is 11%

Anyone have any insight into their process?
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I can't seem to find the reference anymore, but I believe it's extract based. I went looking when I tasted it and it had that funky extract aftertaste. I rather didn't care for it.
 
I did my last chocolate stout using carob instead of chocolate powder. Threw it in the boil at 5 mins. Carob tastes just like chocolate, won't be a problem if people have alergies to chocolate and has 0 fat content. I told people it was a chocolate stout and everyone remarked on the great chocolate flavor! I also like throwing a couple vanilla beans (split) in the secondary when I'm using "chocolate" and a touch of lactose as well.
 
humann_brewing said:
Great info, I know that Deschutes uses Cocoa Nibs at the end of the boil for their Black Butte XX(I)

Edit: ok, I guess ChshreCat got to that before me.
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I have in my primary right now a Chocolate Ale. Based on this idea:

http://chocolatealchemy.com/2011/10/09/brewing-cocoa/

I put into the very end of the boil 2.5 lbs of roasted, ground cocoa beans (husk and all due to all the water extratables in the husk) in my 5 gallons.

FINALLY, after playing with this for years, there is SOLID chocolate in my ale. Not just something very subtle. And based on the foamy head in the fermenter I would say I will have no issue with head retention due to any cocoa butter - I left it as a film in the kettle.
 
I'll be very interested in hearing your updates on this batch. I've not used Chocolate in brewing yet and would like to have success the first time out.
:mug:
 
Sebo, Southern Tier uses a bunch of artificial extracts in their brews. Pumpking, Choklat, etc. Around here some people love the taste. Respectfully, to me they tend to taste fake. I don't know, depends on what you like.

Love the post, I've made a handful of Milk Stouts. Never used Nibs, but I may try. I've always used around 4-6 oz of Dutch Processed Cocoa Powder at knockout, along with a lb of Lactose. I've really liked the results, It really produces a Cocoa taste that balances out the Lactose, and other roasted malts that may be used in the beer.

With that being said, for those of you looking for over the top Chocolate taste (like candy sweet), don't waste your time or money with cocoa powder (or nibs I'm assuming). Just add Chocolate Extract to a secondary. Just my experience.
 
I specifically would not use that one due to the alkaline treatment and actual sodium carbonate in the powder.

Aside from the (with the chance of repeating myself, but maybe not) I would try nibs again - but presumably with three major changes. First, in my experience you need quite a bit. I use 6-8 oz per gallon. Yep, that much. There is very little water soluble in cocoa. So you need quite a bit. 2nd - don't use just nib. Go for husk and nib. Basically the whole cocoa bean coarsely ground up. 3rd - put it in a bag and toss it into the wort right at the end of the boil like an aroma hop addition.

That's my $0.03 worth
 
I take them out. Basically, you are making a 'brewed cocoa' with your wort. I just leave them in during the cooling. That way any cocoa butter remains on top and very little makes it into the brew to wreck havoc with your head retention.

This is the kind of thing I am suggesting you use:

Chocolate Alchemy » Brewing Cocoa

BTW, I want to point out I'm not here trying to hawk my own product, but I DO sell this. I brew, but happen to do chocolate also.

That said, the more fine the cocoa is that you put in, the more issue you are going to have with the cocoa butter, hence the coarse grinding suggestion. And also the husks provide quite a bit of of extractables.

I've tried a ton of chocolates, sweetened and unsweetened and the always sound so much better than the result.

How would I translate that? 2.5 + 2 = 4.5 oz. Given the lower surface area, I would double it and round to 10 oz. That's what I would try. All these recipes I see calling for 1 and 2 oz just make me shake my head. The best comparison I could make would be to add 1 oz of whole coffee to 5 gallons of cold beer. There is so little there to extract that it just won't do any good, and that would probably give you more flavor than 2 oz of nibs.

I hope that helps.
 
Hi Alchemist, thanks for the info!

I've got some cacoa nibs leftover from a previous batch (not much), so have been playing around with it. If I add hot water... nothing. If I grind it up a bit... chocolatey (not like Hersheys chocolatey, but cacao nib-esque... well, you know).

When I grind, there is a little oil on the surface (if I grind quite small). When I transfer from my kettle (ie. a bit pot) to my primary, I usually do it through a sieve/pasta strainer to collect the hops, then run the wort back through the hops to filter it out. Would this catch the oil? I'm doing a Breakfast stout clone btw, and not really sure how much chocolate I want in it (because I've never had it, but like the look of the recipe).

Recommendations?
I was considering these:
Creative Nature Cacao Nibs 300 g: Amazon.co.uk: Grocery
I can't really find them with husks etc, not really spoiled for choice in the UK for cacao it would appear.

I ground some up, ran them through an espresso maker, added a teaspoon sugar and steamed milk and am drinking it now... very nutty.
 
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Yep, almost no flavor with just a few nibs - I think people use them with a belief they will work, but never check it out. I just won't ever believe 4 oz nibs will contribute any noticeable flavor to a 5 gal batch, but I see it all the time. They just are not like 4 oz of black malt or something.

If you get your wort down to 70-75 F, the cocoa butter should solidify and be caught very nicely on the hop filter bed. It's close to what I have done.

And with using nibs and/or husk, you really don't have to worry about too much chocolate flavor. Back dropped against a stout, the flavor will just plateau.

Does that help?



ChillWill said:
Hi Alchemist, thanks for the info!

I've got some cacoa nibs leftover from a previous batch (not much), so have been playing around with it. If I add hot water... nothing. If I grind it up a bit... chocolatey (not like Hersheys chocolatey, but cacao nib-esque... well, you know).

When I grind, there is a little oil on the surface (if I grind quite small). When I transfer from my kettle (ie. a bit pot) to my primary, I usually do it through a sieve/pasta strainer to collect the hops, then run the wort back through the hops to filter it out. Would this catch the oil? I'm doing a Breakfast stout clone btw, and not really sure how much chocolate I want in it (because I've never had it, but like the look of the recipe).

Recommendations?
I was considering these:
Creative Nature Cacao Nibs 300 g: Amazon.co.uk: Grocery
I can't really find them with husks etc, not really spoiled for choice in the UK for cacao it would appear.

I ground some up, ran them through an espresso maker, added a teaspoon sugar and steamed milk and am drinking it now... very nutty.
Click to expand...
 
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Personally, if you go that way, I would both toast them further (it seems to brighten the flavor just a tough to re-roast them), grind them somewhat more, and frankly use them all.
 
I recently have been creating my own liquid extracts at home (chocolate, banana, and bacon to start with). For the chocolate, I used two tablespoons of cocoa powder and dissolved it in 2 ounces vodka and 1 ounce purified water in a glass jar. It's been sitting for a little over a week and I plan on filtering it next weekend. Every day I give it a shake and take a whiff and it smells very chocolatey, like the sweet, not bitter kind. My eventual plan is to brew a chocolate stout or porter and add the extract at bottling. I've read in previous posts that some people have gotten an artificial chocolate taste by this method but I didn't know if they had made their own extract or used store bought. Please give me some input.
 
Thirstin4aburstin said:
I recently have been creating my own liquid extracts at home (chocolate, banana, and bacon to start with). For the chocolate, I used two tablespoons of cocoa powder and dissolved it in 2 ounces vodka and 1 ounce purified water in a glass jar. It's been sitting for a little over a week and I plan on filtering it next weekend. Every day I give it a shake and take a whiff and it smells very chocolatey, like the sweet, not bitter kind. My eventual plan is to brew a chocolate stout or porter and add the extract at bottling. I've read in previous posts that some people have gotten an artificial chocolate taste by this method but I didn't know if they had made their own extract or used store bought. Please give me some input.
Click to expand...

I would read a thread about making extracts <hint><hint>.
 
Whole Foods sells "Cacao Nibs" raw chocolate nibs. Based on comments it looks like i should roast these before adding to a FBS clone. Can anyone suggest a temp and time for this? Im not sure if ill be able to see them 'toast'

Thanks.
 
No, you won't be able to see them toast. But you can smell them, and that is your best indicator. It's all dependent on how much you roast, but 300 F for 20 minutes in your oven will get you quite far along. Look for a nice baking brownie smell.

Be slightly aware though that there is a 'raw' chocolate movement going on and many raw nibs are very low fermented and have very little chocolate flavor even when roasted.
 
Movement to not ferment... What the heck is wrong with people?

Thanks! I'd already opened the bag so guess I'll toast and see.
 
starman said:
Movement to not ferment... What the heck is wrong with people?

Thanks! I'd already opened the bag so guess I'll toast and see.
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Noting you may be asking a rhetorical question....

There was a study at some point back by Mars that showed that chocolate made OVER fermented cocoa beans had less nutrients and anti-oxidants than properly fermented cocoa beans. In very classic fringe movement style, the notion came about that if that therefore if you followed that rationale all the well that non-fermented just has to be the best....with no documentation to back it up.

I'm now kicking myself for not saving the study, as I now can not find it, but there was data indicating that in fact, non-fermented beans did have more total anti-oxidants....wait for it....but it was massively less digestible (and even worse when not roasted) and the net digestible amount was far less than even over fermented beans.

/rant
/soapbox
 
Is there any major difference in flavor or content between brewing chocolate as described in this thread, and from boiling cocoa liquor, as it is done in cacao growing countries? In the Philippines, we simply boil tabilla (Spanish word for tablets) and stir, as grinders are not common in Philippine homes.
 
You could very well boil the cocoa liquor. Since the cocoa liquor has a lot of fat in it, you might have some problems down the line. I think people are having a lot of luck with the unground nibs because although they still have the same amount of fat as the liquor, you are essentially soaking up the essence and not really extracting much if any cocoa butter.

Its been a while since I read the entire thread, so if people are chucking bakers chocolate into the boil, then go right ahead with the cocoa liquor.
 
I've only used cacao nibs, but have had commercial beers made with cocoa powder and, IMO, the nibs provide a much richer, dark chocolate flavor that seems better blended with the flavor from dark grains in the bill. May be psychological, but the beer brewed w/cocoa powder seemed, well, powdery.

My best success with nibs to date has been a chocolate cherry stout. This was a big beer at 9% ABV, formulated to give just a hint of cherry. I used 7oz of nibs, and 1 & 1/2 vanilla bean per each 5g secondary for 2 months, then kegged 5g, bottled 5g.

A month and a half after packaging, the chocolate flavor was huge. 6 months after packaging it was still very notable, but had mellowed and blended. Took silver in specialty category in a field of 63 entries. Entered twice more over next six months in pretty big comps, taking a bronze and finally a gold.

I never knew nibs had so much fat - had I, I may have opted out fearing the fat would lead to off flavors (rancid?) after a lot of time in the bottle. But I just cracked a bottle of this beer, now nearly 2 years since packaging, and it is still really, really awesome - though I am biased...
 
Well, nibs do have fat (cocoa butter), but at this point, I doubt much is extracted when soaked in the beer since fats are generally not water soluble. If you take some nibs and grind them up in a mortar and pestle, you will find that it makes a paste, as opposed to coffee beans, which will make a powder.
 
So I've read through this entire thread. Thanks for the all the great info. However, I can't honestly say I have a strong feeling one way or the other on how to proceed with the RIS I am about to brew. Since I ordered 4 oz of Ghana Cacao nibs from Northern Brewer, I think I am still going to go ahead and use them.

I've seen a lot of back and forth about roasting the nibs vs. soaking them in alcohol for a day or two. I was orginally going to soak them in bourbon or vodka and add them to secondary. I don't usually use a secondary (when I dry hop, I just add straight to primary), but since this beer is going to be in the 10% range, and I want to use the nibs, it sounds like this may be the way to go so I can get the beer off the yeast cake and then give the nibs more time to soak into the beer.

I'm not looking for a chocolate stout - just want to add another layer of complexity to a beer that will already have a lot of stuff going on.


So just to re-open this discussion, would you recommend I roast the nibs (if so, what temp and for how long), or soak them in alcophol for a day or two? I would probably leave beer in primary for 3 weeks or so, then rack onto nibs in secondary and let that sit for 5 or 6 weeks before bottling.

Anyone notice any big red flags with this plan?
 
Great info here all around. I recently purchased some organic what look to be good quality cacao nibs to experiment with. I originally was just going to make a milk stout but thought cacao nibs would add a nice chocolate profile to it...kind of like a chocolate milk stout.
This is experimental but here's what I did yesterday...
I put 3/4 cup of nibs, 1/2 cup of Jim Bean bourbon and 1/4 cup of water and coarsely ground the mixture with a magic bullet. I boiled 8oz of lactose in 2c of water and added all of this into my secondary with roughly 3 gallons of the stout. I'm gonna let this sit for 10 days or so and bottle it. Right now I have some new krausen from the secondary fermentation from the sugars. I'll report back on how this little experiment worked.
 
This might be posted someplace already but Dutch Processed cocoa powder may be a better option to try to keep the bitterness down. Going to try it on my next batch of Moose Drool clone
 
One of my better beers uses cocoa powder, boiled in water and then cooled added to the beer at kegging.

Admittedly, the flavor addition is probably less noticeable than the aroma addition, but it does make a fine beer.
 
Great and clear information and is finally reached to me also, I have though about chocolate overtone beer and one guy previous forum posted his personal recipe also but I have to admit, I haven't tried it before. Any good chocolate including beer out there for sale, anywhere?
 
I recently brewed a milk stout (http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/big-honkin-chocolate-milk-stout-all-grain). I did a 10 gallon batch with 2lbs lactose (. I split the batch into 5 gallons with just milk stout, and the other 5 I added chocolate nibs. I haven't worked with the powder, but here is my experience with nibs for this batch. Both batches have been kegged and carbed (the milk stout is chilled, while the chocolate is conditioning still).

I ordered the nibs off of amazon (8oz, see link below). I tasted the nibs when I got them in. I really liked the taste, as in, I could eat them plain. I'm not sure if that is anything significant, but it could have some influence on the type of nib you want to use. I wouldn't use anything that didn't taste good!

I then ground the nibs to almost a powder in my coffee grinder. I dumped it all in a ball mason jar, and then covered in vodka (and shook it up). I let it site for a few days. The result was a solid mass of chocolate that was clumped together. I could actually see some of the oil separated from the ground beans.

I scooped it all out into a fine pantyhose sock and dropped it into the keg (held by floss).

It has been sitting for about a month now at about 65 deg. Here is what I have noticed...

HEAD - There is ZERO impact on head retention. In fact it seems like the opposite. There is a very thick/creamy head. I'm attributing this somewhat to the lactose. The head is also much darker than the milk stout version.

Regarding head retention. I believe the reason that it is not having a significant impact is because the fat is solid, and is not absorbing into the beer. If I had boiled in the nibs, then I think the result could be different. However, I have no fear of nibs impacting my head retention when used in secondary.

TASTE - The chocolate character is very subtle, but definitely noticeable compared to the milk stout. There is some grittiness, but I'm sure that will go away once I chill it. The original milk stout is a little too sweet for my taste. I was actually planning on scaling back the lactose to compensate. HOWEVER, the chocolate version is perfect. There is a much better balance resulting from the bitterness imparted by the nibs.

Hopefully this will help some of you in deciding how to add chocolate. I've read for hours and there is clearly no right way to do it!

BTW, here is the link for the exact nibs that I ordered:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OQ4A3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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sleewok said:
Hopefully this will help some of you in deciding how to add chocolate. I've read for hours and there is clearly no right way to do it!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sad if this truly helpful write up contained a link to the nibs purchased from Amazon. :)
 

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