What would be your ideal LHBS?

[dfess1]

How do they display the old yeast? My refrigerator situation is tough because the yeast fridge is in back for employees only to keep it organized and that's where it fits. Do they keep a list out or something? I like the idea, before I just did a crazy experiment with it, see: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6777333#post6777333

My LHBS allows you to pick your yeast and hops. They have a couple of the TRUE glass door fridges. They also have a TON of room, having moved into quite a large space. I know space can be a premium.

Things I'd like to see my LHBS do?

• Carry more hardware pieces. That said, cost is a factor. I have no problem buying local, but when outfitting an entire rig with camlock fittings, an extra 3 bucks a piece adds up. Internet wins there, even with the shipping.
• Offer discount pricing on larger hop selections. Unless this has changed, don't just change me the per oz price x 16. I know you're getting a discount on it, you know you're getting a discount on it, why rake me over the coals? Again, internet wins out here as well.
• Granted, having seen what you could get a sack of 2row for when the group buys were still going on, you're telling me the "best you can do" is $25 than what I was getting during the group buy? I go through a 55lb sack of MO every two months, for my house pale alone. That stuff adds up. They are a huge store, that I would imagine goes through more grain than your average brew pub.
• Offer a store discount to accredited/recognized/AHA registered homebrew clubs/members. They offer one to the club that is affiliated with them, but they aren't the only club in the area. And other clubs do more than just beer.

Things my LHBS does well:

• Fantastic selection of yeast. Many kinds of liquid, and many kinds of dry. Would be nice if they could get ECY, but that's not on them.
• Fantastic selection of hops.
• Pretty good selection on equipment. Certainly not as much as a Morebeer, but pretty close. They have the room, I would think they could stock more options.
• They do group brew days at the store, inviting new brewers to brew a specific recipe. They also do other things where they invite clubs to come brew, and offer barrels to store the beer in. Then have a competition to see which club made the best beer, and award the winning club with a gift certificate.
• Friendly, knowledgeable staff.
• Excellent wine selection.
• Great cider selection (in season).

 

[autobaun70]

One more thing that I would have found very nice at the time I started brewing. A very good selection of basic "beginner" recipes with good instructions, etc. for the beginning brewer. These would not necessarily need to be stored in "kit form," but the staff needs to be able to quickly pull them and assemble into a kit. The accompanying instruction sheet should be of good quality (In terms of print quality/presentation), and all ingredients/mosilin bags/etc. very clearly labeled.

This may sound like overkill, but is essentially what the online competition brings to the table on their websites. I bought my first few kits online due to such not being available locally.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Yes, a recipe/idea book with some solid examples of recipes fitting the different styles with some notes on how they taste can be nice as a reference or to help people make their own recipe on the spot. Or maybe even a few pages that can be referenced with the BJCP style definitions. Pages with common substitutions/characteristics of ingredients (so customers can make the informed decisions).

Maybe even be willing to be a collection point for submissions for some competitions.

 

[sudbuddy]

One more thing that I would have found very nice at the time I started brewing. A very good selection of basic "beginner" recipes with good instructions, etc. for the beginning brewer. These would not necessarily need to be stored in "kit form," but the staff needs to be able to quickly pull them and assemble into a kit. The accompanying instruction sheet should be of good quality (In terms of print quality/presentation), and all ingredients/mosilin bags/etc. very clearly labeled.

This may sound like overkill, but is essentially what the online competition brings to the table on their websites. I bought my first few kits online due to such not being available locally.

That was one of the first things I did! It has worked out great for us, and I don't even sell other kits now. Being able to tell a customer "here, this is my recipe and you won't see it anywhere else. Go brew it, bring it back and we can discuss it" has been invaluable and beats the hell out of the same old LD Carlson kits you see everywhere else

 

[Opiate42]

Seeing some folks requesting to NOT suggest alternatives if lacking something. I dunno I appreciate it when my LHBS dude offers up something that could be a suitable replacement. Only been doing this for >2 years and still very much in my early mad scientist mode.

Anyhoo, there's two shops I head for near me I'll call them Big Shop and Little Shop.

Big Shop I don't visit so much anymore as it's a b!tch to get to and only open late enough for me to do so after work two days a week. Getting there on a weekend chews up too much brew time!

Likes:

• Big shop is relatively huge, good selection and competitive prices.
• Little shop is tiny but owner dude manages to cram in pretty well everything I've needed with rare exceptions into that little storefront of his. Also very competitive pricing.
• Little Shop will mill the grain for me if I ask.
• Little shop a warm friendly place.
• Little shop dude is awesome, we swap homebrew and chat about all kinds of things, never too busy to help with supplies, gear, or questions. If something is not on the shelf he'll drop what he's doing and grab it from the back if needed.
• Big Shop Staff are knowledgeable and helpful and more or less friendly (see below)
• Neither bother me if I'm poking my nose around the shop looking and not in need of help yet.
• Both their websites are really well laid out, can order online and pickup in store same day.
• Little shop has a self-serve bulk bin where you can scoop and measure out your own grain for a couple types of base malts (i.e. 2Row @ $1/lbs).

Likes Not As Much:

• Big Shop staff "more or less friendly", not as chatty unless it's really quiet and only one of them in the store. Otherwise, if they cluster they tend to get so wound up in their own conversations they can unintentionally ignore clients who may be in need of assistance.
• Little shop only carries Fermentis for a dry yeast, and Wyeast for liquid. If I want a specific yeast other than that I have to make a special trip to visit Big Shop who carries just about everything.
• Big shop does not mill grain for you. They have a drill mill setup to do it yourself but sometimes I don't have the time.
• Big shop being as big as it is is a pretty warehouse cold feeling kinda place. Great for storage but makes me want to just grab and get out.
• Little shop is a one-man show, if he's got a ton of people in line be prepared to wait. New place though, hasn't even been open a year yet so I can be patient .

 

[grathan]

I think a brewery with a tasting room on one side and ingredient store on the other. It would sell exact clone recipe kits.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

My ideal LHBS would be open

Just found out my local store (only local store) is changing ownership, I assume it's changing ownership, but knowing my luck they'll close. I order online some stuff but like to pick up yeast and bulk bags in person.

 

[Bobby_M]

In regards to the "honor sysyem" to help reduce some loss why don't you keep a scale at the register to confirm a total weight and if it doesn't total right just charge them the most expensive grain you carry for the difference.

I don't think my customers will steal from me but the biggest risk is when they make a mistake and combine two grains they didn't mean to. I think the urge to get a do-over would potentially risk having it dumped into another bulk bin.

 

[Bobby_M]

For all the years I was going to the local shops, I never knew I was doing research for my own shop to come in the future. I do however remember a lot of the things that annoyed me and I hope to eventually solve all of them in time.

All hops and yeast, even dry, is in the fridge the second it arrives. We start discounting our Wyeast packs at 4months and it increases over time. By the time there are any at 6 months old, you have a fresher option at full price. Your choice. Every time we place a stock order for hops replenishment, we target adding at least one new variety. We sell at least half of our varieties by both once and pound.

On the grain front, we're finding that locals are much more prone to buying items by the recipe than in bulk so we've moved specialty grains down to 4oz purchasable increments and we don't penalize for less than pound quantity. We don't have self serve because our bulk grain is stored in our shipping area due to how much more of it is actually shipped. Our mill is also on the loading dock with a vent fan to avoid dust storms in the store. To avoid pile ups, I always encourage locals to email or phone in a grain order an hour or more in advance. It helps even out workload so much that we may incentivize with a discount. We also have most specialty grains in prepacked 1lb bags for grab and go.

Kits are still being worked out. I went with the BSG Select kits for extract brewers to have something on the shelf for a quick drop in purchase. Longer term, I tend to offer on demand kits that come out of the freshest inventory. I'll always use Brewing Classic Styles if the customer doesn't have a specific request. It's now a matter getting the more popular styles into our system as one click SKU so that I don't have to build shopping carts real time.

I think I read earlier in the thread, maybe even two posts, that as customers you don't want staff to make suggestions for substitutions of out of stock or non stocked items. Wow, worst idea ever. For one thing, it suggests that all customers have done such extensive research that they know the common substitutions and have decided they don't want them. Imagine someone asking for Briess 2 Row. If I play this game, I'd say no we don't have it (pssst, we stock Rahr 2 row). I can fully appreciate a preference and you can tell me you really rather Briess, but not saying "well, we stock Rahr, would you like that?" is 100% what I would expect as a customer. Sometimes it's not just brand variation, but still relatively like for like products like sanitizer. I've had several customers ask for B-Brite "sanitizer" or Iodaphor. Without being smug about it, I kindly suggest a cleaner like PBW followed by a easier to use sanitizer like Starsan. If my customers are put off from suggestions of best practices and best products, they will hate coming to my store. As vendors, we will also know about new products coming into the market before customers do. What if our unspeakable substitution is the new hot ****? You don't want to hear about it?

 

[DrunkleJon]

I don't think my customers will steal from me but the biggest risk is when they make a mistake and combine two grains they didn't mean to. I think the urge to get a do-over would potentially risk having it dumped into another bulk bin.

just me thinking aloud here but a "do over" bucket available at a slightly reduced pot luck price could possibly be interesting for the adventurous.

 

[MaxStout]

just me thinking aloud here but a "do over" bucket available at a slightly reduced pot luck price could possibly be interesting for the adventurous.

I like that. "The mystery meat malt special, 75 cents a pound. We have no idea what's in there, but it'll make beer!"

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I like that. "The mystery meat malt special, 75 cents a pound. We have no idea what's in there, but it'll make beer!"

My Pipe shop does this...call it "best of the rest" and it contains the <1 oz scraps after custom blending.

I often make a "Floor Sweepin's" beer withall the specialty malts plus enough base grain for correct OG but I actually take more detailed notes on these than normal recipes as I have created one of summer and two of my winter house beers this way. It would totally suck to make an awesome beer with the "Ooops" bucket of grain then have no clue how to replicate.

 

[blizz81]

Do you prefer shops that let you fill and crush your own grains? The other shops in my area do that, but we fill recipes for the customer. IMO this saves time because we know our grain room so well, and it also greatly reduces the risk of cross-contamination between grain bins. Plus, well, you know, the honor system on grain is nice, but it's really easy to forget to mark down a pound here or there. If you do prefer to pull and mill your own grains, can you tell me why? I'm sure there must be good reasons for it because so many stores do it.

One of the draws of being a homebrewer to me is obsessing over details and "having control".


To me, having someone fill a bag for me off my recipe list is giving up control. Especially if I couldn't sit around and watch them measure out each grain, etc.


I love the LHBS here that has all of the grains in nice bins sized appropriately (smaller bins for specialty grains with smaller spouts on the lids, etc). I don't know if I've ever seen the staff measuring grains out for people, and a lot of the time if people are using their mill hooked up to a drill, the customer is doing it all. They're usually busier fielding questions and / or running classes, though I am often in there on Saturdays. They do a lot of classes and most of them are free - I think that's cool.


As an IT guy, if I had a shop, it would have to have the store inventory tied into a web storefront. Something like Brewmaster's Warehouse's old system with the recipe builder would be a plus.

 

[sudbuddy]

I don't think my customers will steal from me but the biggest risk is when they make a mistake and combine two grains they didn't mean to. I think the urge to get a do-over would potentially risk having it dumped into another bulk bin.

That is my concern too. I really doubt anyone would steal, it's more about cross-contaminating grain, having the wrong stuff put back in the wrong bin. It would suck to have to throw out a whole bin of roasted barley because someone accidentally put a pound or two of victory in it.

 

[sudbuddy]

just me thinking aloud here but a "do over" bucket available at a slightly reduced pot luck price could possibly be interesting for the adventurous.

Awesome idea! I have a bin like that, but usually I just do weird brews like that. I'm going to offer it to my customers for 75 cents a lb and see what they come up with

 

[WVHomeBrewer]

Wow my LHBS is only a block away from my home which is a plus but he is only open 1 day a week.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think I read earlier in the thread, maybe even two posts, that as customers you don't want staff to make suggestions for substitutions of out of stock or non stocked items. Wow, worst idea ever. For one thing, it suggests that all customers have done such extensive research that they know the common substitutions and have decided they don't want them. Imagine someone asking for Briess 2 Row. If I play this game, I'd say no we don't have it (pssst, we stock Rahr 2 row). I can fully appreciate a preference and you can tell me you really rather Briess, but not saying "well, we stock Rahr, would you like that?" is 100% what I would expect as a customer. Sometimes it's not just brand variation, but still relatively like for like products like sanitizer. I've had several customers ask for B-Brite "sanitizer" or Iodaphor. Without being smug about it, I kindly suggest a cleaner like PBW followed by a easier to use sanitizer like Starsan. If my customers are put off from suggestions of best practices and best products, they will hate coming to my store. As vendors, we will also know about new products coming into the market before customers do. What if our unspeakable substitution is the new hot ****? You don't want to hear about it?

I haven't been carefully dissecting every post, but my impression was less of "don't offer suggestions" and more of a "don't insist a substitution is the same" or "don't provide an opinion i didn't ask for".

Basic customer service and product knowledge fixes. I have zero problem if I'm looking for something specific and they don't have it with them offering an alternate. The issue is if a less than knowledgeable staffer plays something up as a sub or improvement when it's not.

 

[sudbuddy]

I haven't been carefully dissecting every post, but my impression was less of "don't offer suggestions" and more of a "don't insist a substitution is the same" or "don't provide an opinion i didn't ask for".

Basic customer service and product knowledge fixes. I have zero problem if I'm looking for something specific and they don't have it with them offering an alternate. The issue is if a less than knowledgeable staffer plays something up as a sub or improvement when it's not.

That's the way I read it too. That being said, substitutions are a necessary evil in homebrewing because it is impossible to have EVERY grain/hop/yeast/adjunct ALL of the time. I think most shops, mine included, try to cover all the bases so we at least have something that will work for the customer. Insisting that something is exactly the same as another thing is the kind of statement I hate to make because it paints me into a corner. Saying something is similar, or will work as a sub is fine if there is sufficient evidence to back it up. That's where experience comes into play. You can only learn those substitutions by brewing and researching a lot, and luckily that is one of the many perks of working in a brew shop. I think substitutions are the first thing you need to learn if you get a job at a shop besides how to use the register and good customer service, etc.

 

[sudbuddy]

Wow my LHBS is only a block away from my home which is a plus but he is only open 1 day a week.

That's sort of a good news/bad news kind of deal isn't it?

 

[fimpster]

The grain club/card thing has already been brought up a couple of times in this thread, but it is a good one. My LHBS does this and I love them for it. I pretty much always have a sack of 2-row, Maris Otter, and Pilsner with them at all times. They also sell all grains by the oz., lb. or sack. Getting one or two ounces of something for a recipe is nice and the charge is the same as the per oz. price by the pound.

They always have a fantastic yeast and hops selection. In the last year (since I switched to this LHBS) I have never asked for a yeast or hop they they did not have in stock.

 

[JonM]

I'm really fortunate because I have a great LHBS VERY close to home. The only things I could possibly think of are:

A RO/DI dispenser in the store and maybe an apple press available for rental, or available for use on-site if you bring apples.

 

[Terek]

I have 2 within walking distance. There are several reasons why I use one and never go to the other.
The one I like:
*ran by a homebrewer for the last 30 years. She started in her garage and then remodeled it into a "real" store
*Friendly staff who knows me by name, and even by phone number.
*being able to call with a recipe and come by in an hour to pick it up, all ready for me.
*Very good selection of products and parts. If she doesn't have something you need, a supply truck comes twice a week. So not much wait on special items.
*Best prices in town.
* my all time fav. is the virtual bag. You pre buy a bulk amount of grain at a discount, and she keeps track of how much you get each time. No need to take home 55 lbs and grind yourself.
*the only thing I don't like is she does not serve/sell beer.

The store I don't like:
*its a big box store, like the Walmart of LHBS but no roleback pricing.
*they are around 10-25% more expensive than any where else.
*they only stock specific brands. tells me they are contract loyal.
*most of the time, the worker is someone different each visit, and there expertise is running the cash register. Last time I was there, he actually said to me "whats a bung?"
*not a very good inventory. And all malt is "in the back" you never see it, they just come out with a bag of whatever you ordered. no way of knowing what is in the bag, or how fresh. Also, all there hops are vaccum sealed and frozen. How old can they be?
*the only thing I like (and the only reason I go there anymore) is that they have around 300 diff. kinds of beer, cider, and mead bottled, or on tap. Things anywhere from $1 a bottle to $30 a bottle. (they have a very good 3 year old mead right now in a wine bottle. $28 ea)

 

[sudbuddy]

*the only thing I like (and the only reason I go there anymore) is that they have around 300 diff. kinds of beer, cider, and mead bottled, or on tap. Things anywhere from $1 a bottle to $30 a bottle. (they have a very good 3 year old mead right now in a wine bottle. $28 ea)

How are they able to sell homebrew? Do they have a brewery and liquor license or is it all under the table?

 

[Qhrumphf]

How are they able to sell homebrew? Do they have a brewery and liquor license or is it all under the table?

I'd guess it's a bar/homebrew shop, or a brewery/homebrew shop (I've seen plenty of both). Any business selling homebrew is asking for trouble, and under the table is just asking for problems. It's risky enough for a homebrewer to try and sell homebrew, let alone an actual business.

 

[sudbuddy]

I'd guess it's a bar/homebrew shop, or a brewery/homebrew shop (I've seen plenty of both). Any business selling homebrew is asking for trouble, and under the table is just asking for problems. It's risky enough for a homebrewer to try and sell homebrew, let alone an actual business.

I agree, but it kind of sounds like they're selling homebrew. Hmmm...

 

[vincentAlpha]

A big thing for me would be to see 1/2lb increments of hops not just full lbs. I only brew for myself so a lb of hops would last me AGES but it hurts to spend per oz. what I know is 4x what I would pay if I bought it by the lb. A half pound could easily last me a year or so depending on the hop.

 

[fimpster]

How are they able to sell homebrew? Do they have a brewery and liquor license or is it all under the table?

Seeing where this poster is from, I'm think I know which shop s/he's talking about. They are a bottle shop and LHBS. I think the draft beer is for growler fills.

 

[FatDragon]

Also, all there hops are vaccum sealed and frozen. How old can they be?

Hops should be stored vacuum sealed and frozen. I'm not sure how this one is supposed to be a negative. Not knowing their age would be a much bigger issue if they weren't vacuum sealed and frozen, since they deteriorate much faster at warmer temps or with more air contact.

 

[Terek]

I agree, but it kind of sounds like they're selling homebrew. Hmmm...

nothing they sell is homebrew that I can tell. every bottle has professional labels with all the proper stamps that I can see. I never mentioned homebrew for sale.....

 

[Terek]

Seeing where this poster is from, I'm think I know which shop s/he's talking about. They are a bottle shop and LHBS. I think the draft beer is for growler fills.

They are for growler fills. Although every thur. at 7 they do a free tasting when they swap out the taps for new ones. You are able to get free tasting glasses or buy a pint in a glass, but you can only buy pints during the tasting. No other time. Loophole mabe? Its a chain so im pretty sure they are legit.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Hops should be stored vacuum sealed and frozen. I'm not sure how this one is supposed to be a negative. Not knowing their age would be a much bigger issue if they weren't vacuum sealed and frozen, since they deteriorate much faster at warmer temps or with more air contact.

I am only guessing, but I think they may be referring to broken up and vac sealed at the store and not in those HopUnion style flushed and frozen bags.

 

[sudbuddy]

Hops should be stored vacuum sealed and frozen. I'm not sure how this one is supposed to be a negative. Not knowing their age would be a much bigger issue if they weren't vacuum sealed and frozen, since they deteriorate much faster at warmer temps or with more air contact.

+1 to this, very very true

 

[Opiate42]

I like that. "The mystery meat malt special, 75 cents a pound. We have no idea what's in there, but it'll make beer!"

I love this idea.

My Pipe shop does this...call it "best of the rest" and it contains the <1 oz scraps after custom blending.

I often make a "Floor Sweepin's" beer withall the specialty malts plus enough base grain for correct OG but I actually take more detailed notes on these than normal recipes as I have created one of summer and two of my winter house beers this way. It would totally suck to make an awesome beer with the "Ooops" bucket of grain then have no clue how to replicate.

It would suck but dammit.... enjoy it while it lasts!

 

[Kharnynb]

A local shop that stores more than a few buckets, prehopped kits, and bottlecaps....

Not having to wait several days and pay shipping every time...

*sobbing noises*

 

[sudbuddy]

A local shop that stores more than a few buckets, prehopped kits, and bottlecaps....

Not having to wait several days and pay shipping every time...

*sobbing noises*

Ouch, sorry bud

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

It's official...

My ideal LHBS would be, open...

There's a large homebrew community over in Menomonie and they have their own store, and theres not a large enough homebrewing community here in Eau Claire to support a local store. That, and, the owners children dont want to take over the store.

If I'm going to drive 40 minutes over to Menomonie, I may as well make the longer trip to the cities and go to the physical Northern Brewer store (which I don't know why I would do this when I can order from them online and its here in 2 days).

I'm gonna go cry into a 12% scottish wee heavy I made with ingredients I purchased at my posthumous LHBS.

 

[sudbuddy]

It's official...

My ideal LHBS would be, open...

There's a large homebrew community over in Menomonie and they have their own store, and theres not a large enough homebrewing community here in Eau Claire to support a local store. That, and, the owners children dont want to take over the store.

If I'm going to drive 40 minutes over to Menomonie, I may as well make the longer trip to the cities and go to the physical Northern Brewer store (which I don't know why I would do this when I can order from them online and its here in 2 days).

I'm gonna go cry into a 12% scottish wee heavy I made with ingredients I purchased at my posthumous LHBS.

That just broke my heart. Good luck finding a new shop, hope you don't have to stick with NB for too long

 

[Jaybird]

Thanks Jay. Do you sell your false bottoms, etc. wholesale? I really like the design and I'd love to stock them. Please PM me the details if you do

PM inbound.

Cheers
Jay

 

[GrainToGlass]

Location is a big factor for me. I have to drive an hour to get to my closest LHBS. When I do get there it's a stressful battle for street parking. So, a good website for ordering would be a nice plus.

 

[sudbuddy]

Location is a big factor for me. I have to drive an hour to get to my closest LHBS. When I do get there it's a stressful battle for street parking. So, a good website for ordering would be a nice plus.

Does it help you if you can email in your order ahead of time? A lot of my customers have been finding that useful while we get our webstore up and running