What will a lot more DME do to my recipe?

[TexasStu]

I am working on doing a hybrid extract recipe.
My issue is I misread the DCM and over-ordered, compounded by including all the grain in the order (packaged as one) so impossible to separate.
Instead of 0.125 lbs. DCM (I chose Crystal 90L) I ordered 1.25 lbs (10 times what the recipe calls for). The recipe, "Cascading Coopers pale Ale" (submitted by Brewtopia Homebrew Supplies) is listed HERE

Ok, enough background. HERE is my question...
I am new to brewing so I have no idea what adding an extra 18oz of DCM to this recipe will do to it. I could guess all day but not be any closer to an answer so I would try to prove my worth by stating I think it would make the taste fuller, the batch darker and increase mouth-feel.

I'd love replies from the veterans as to all that you believe would enhance/detract from this recipe!

 

[HoppyDaze]

It will make it sweeter, less hoppy and stronger (ABV)

 

[DeathBrewer]

it will increase the alcohol and make the beer more malt-balanced if you don't increase your hops.

 

[TexasStu]

Please tell me what more malt-balanced means?

I can always order some more hops.
I'm not concerned too much with the added ABV.
More concerned with the sweetness and the taste/mouth-feel/aftertastes

 

[DeathBrewer]

hop bitterness balances malt sweetness. if you want to increase the alcohol using DME, it will in turn increase the sweetness. to keep the same balanced, you will have to increase the hops as well.

different beers have different balances. american APAs and IPAs are generally much more balanced towards bitterness and hops, whereas scottish ales, many british and german beers, etc. are much more malt-balanced so they are sweeter and use less hops.

unless you lighten the body, you will get a fuller, heavier taste by adding more DME. if you use an adjunct such as table/corn sugar or flaked corn, you can increase the alcohol and lighten the body, as these adjuncts are more highly fermentable and will leave the beer drier.

 

[TexasStu]

Soooo...
Recipe called for 3oz cascade hops (boil 10 mins, add 1 oz, boil 20 mins, add 1 oz and boil 5 more minutes) Final ounce of hops tossed in after 3 days (dry hop).

So how much hops would be required (approx.) to bring back the hops/malt bitter/sweet balance? (recipe). I am guessing if I change the hops addition times slightly as well as adding more hops I might be able to salvage this batch. Perhaps even make it wonderful?

 

[TexasStu]

OH crapola.

My facts are incorrect (read: I am an idiot).

The DME I am referring to is Dark Crystal Malt (90L), not DME.

Sorry for my ig'nance!

 

[DeathBrewer]

ooh, don't increase the quantity on that!

you can still always add more DME, tho.

 

[BioBeing]

I'm a total noob too, so take what I say with a pinch of salt... but I do have BeerSmith. Just playing around, it looks to me as if you will have a darker beer than intended. According to BeerSmith, if you add a pound of corn sugar, you'll be back in the color range for an American Pale Ale.

 

[Shawn Hargreaves]

I was going to say that 1.25 lb of crystal sounds fine for a pale ale. But then I noticed you already have 0.75 lb of lighter crystal. So you now have 2 lb in total, right? (plus a tiny amount of wheat).

That's pushing it. There are beers that work with that much crystal, but they are few and far between.

My suggestion: just use half of your mixed up grains, and save the rest for your next brew. That will leave you with 1 lb of crystal, basically what the original recipe called for. The main difference is you have more darker crystal and less lighter than you intended, so your brew will come out a little darker, and have more of a caramel/raisin flavor balance as opposed to the intended nutty/honey. It'll taste fine, though, and you can use the hops and extract you already have.

 

[ifishsum]

He's already ordered the extra crystal malt and had it packaged with the rest of the grains in the recipe.

I've never used that much Crystal 90 so can't help much more than that, sorry. If you have a LHBS I'd probably go and re-buy the steeping grains in the right ratio. Otherwise I like Shawn Hargreaves' idea of only using half the grain.

 

[TexasStu]

sigh.
The problem with that idea is that there is no way of splitting it in half. All three of the grains are already mixed. So no way to tell what percentage of each makes it into the 'half'.
I'm thinking of going with the flow and just trying to re-balance somewhat. Like doubling the hops? Darker, sweeter AND more bitter with more hoppiness (extra dry hop too)?

 

[ifishsum]

Mix it up real well in the bag, then only use half of the mix. That should help offset the high 60L ratio and should not affect the batch that much, because most of your batch composition is extract anyway. I still think it's the best solution, the higher ratio of 60L would make up a little for the loss of some of the lighter crystal and it might be closer than you think. It will still be darker though. What it boils down to is I think the 1.25 lbs of crystal 60L will impact the beer more negatively than only using half of the other grains. Does that make sense?

If you decide to use the whole thing and increase hops, it would be the bittering hops I would think. Maybe by 25%, doubling them would be way overkill. Later hops additions and dry hops will not do much to re-balance the beer IMO. I'm still learning about recipe building so I could be wrong.

 

[Shawn Hargreaves]

I meant to use half of the total mixed grains, not just half of the darker crystal.

That will leave you with too much dark crystal and not enough light crystal compared to your original recipe, so the color and taste will be a little different, but the overall amount of crystal and thus the malt/hop balance will be ok.

I would not recommend using all this grain. A total of 2 lb of crystal is a crazy amount, and will be hard to make a properly balanced beer no matter what you do with the hops.

 

[DeathBrewer]

i also vote for using half of your mixed grains. that much crystal will not make for a pleasant beer.

you may not be able to reproduce the exact same end result in the future, but the beer will not suffer for it.

 

[TexasStu]

Ok, sounds reasonable. I'm tempted to double the other ingredients (before mixing/splitting it in half) to maintain some semblance of the original recipe.

I'm half tempted to try and match the grain I did order with another can of extract and possibly change or omit the hops. Like change the recipe to using the Coopers Real Ale (instead of lager), or Coopers Sparkling Ale. Something that 14oz #20, 20oz. #90 and 2oz. red wheat (or, if halved: 7oz #20, 10oz #90 and 1oz Red Wheat) would do better with. I am also not ruling out bying some more of some to add and mix before splitting in half. I have 3 one ounce containers of cascade pellets for this recipe. I was considering some (additional) NB hops to change the taste-relationship (less grapefruity/citris).

See, to ME, this sort of thing is what makes the hobby so awesome. Imagine the brews that have arisen from making mistakes. Obviously getting balances too far out of line will ruin a batch but I'm just as sure that some combinations that folks did not appreciate (at the time) have created some phenomenal suds!

 

[DeathBrewer]

my irish rye stout (in my pull-down recipes) was a great success, and it was just a leftovers brew. i've made it many times since and it's turned out great.

 

[Shawn Hargreaves]

I'm tempted to double the other ingredients (before mixing/splitting it in half) to maintain some semblance of the original recipe.

I think you're overthinking this. Just brew it with half of what you have now - it'll be fine!

 

[TexasStu]

I think you're overthinking this. Just brew it with half of what you have now - it'll be fine!

I'm absolutely POSITIVE I am overthinking this!

 

[DeathBrewer]

if you want to use all of those grains, than make two batches. split it and use it as specialty for seperate beers. you could even add a couple extra grains and make two completely different styles, one dark one light, one wheat one stout. whatever.

just please don't throw all the crystal into one beer