What water profile to shoot for for a Kolsch?

[SloTimes]

I want to make a Kolsch but I dont know what water profile I should shoot for.
1) What should Kolsch water look like?

This is my existing water profile:
Calcium 42
Magnesium 25
Sodium 32
Sulfate 150
Chloride 55
Bicarbonate 180

2) Any suggestions on how to get my water to match that style?

 

[cshamilton]

Check out the wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Köln

 

[SloTimes]

Thanks!

 

[mabrungard]

I'm not confident in the Koln water profile provided in that Wiki and I don't think that is the best way to go. That is a very hard water with 104 ppm Ca and 15 ppm Mg. In addition, the sulfate is quite high.

I would go with the Yellow Malty profile from Bru'n Water. It has relatively low mineralization and the sulfate level is low. That is going to let the malt do more of the talking in this malty style.

 

[ajdelange]

What works for me really well with Kölsch is a very soft (RO) water to which some calcium chloride has been added. About 2.3 g/5 gal seems to be the sweet spot. This will result in 37 mg/L Ca++ and 66 mg/L Cl-. No sulfate, no alkalinity (or as low as an RO system will allow). What you are really after here is the chloride. I've tried it with about half the CaCl2 and the beer, while good, just wasn't as good.

You'll also want a couple percent sauermalz (or equivalent in acid but I prefer the sauermalz for the subtle flavors it adds) to set mash pH. And, of course, be sure to use a Kölsch strain and ferment at appropriate temperature.

 

[Kaewan]

I just did a Kolsch. I started with RO water.

Ca          50
Mg          0
Na          0
Cl          68
SO4         29

To get this (approximate) I used 1.5g of Gypsum and 4g of Calcium Chloride. I also used 4oz of weyermann acidulated malt to help reach the desired mash pH.

The hops I used was:
1.5oz 3.5AA Tettnang for 60mins
0.5oz 3.5AA Tettnang for 15mins

I was trying to take AJs advice and use very little sulfate. Overall it was good but I think if I did it again I'd up bittering hops a bit or increase the sulfate and reduce the chloride (maybe make it more balanced with 3g CaSO4 and 3g CaCl2). It had almost no bitterness. It had a slight fruity note to both taste and smell which I gather is typical to the yeast I used (Wyeast 2565). Definitely the best I brewed so far, though. I'd like to thank this board for making me a better brewer!

 

[ajdelange]

With a hop like Tettnang sulfate doesn't change the bitterness so much as it does the way the bitterness is percieved. More sulfate is going to make it harsher. I'm not saying don't up the sulfate because you may like the result better and that's what we are ultimately after here - beer you like. My recommendation would be to skip the gypsum and increase the calcium chloride and I would encourage you to try that too because you might like that better. For more bitterness add more hops.

That subtle fruity, almost chardonay like aroma and flavor are, AFAIK, what Kölsch is all about (but I have never been to Köln).

 

[Kaewan]

I think you are quite right, AJ. The next time I do a Kolsch, I would add more bittering hops-- 1oz at 3.5AA is not very much. Also, since this was the first time doing water treatment, I was scared to not add at least some sulfate.

 

[SloTimes]

I had heard about kolsch water being very soft so I think Im going to do an 80% dilution of my water with distilled and then add .5g/gal CaCl2. That should give me:

Calcium 45
Magnesium 5
Sodium 6
Sulfate 30
Chloride 75
Bicarbonate 36

Does that sound ok? I would dilute more but Im afraid Ill get too low on the Mg.

The other thing that Im confused about is how much acidulated malt to add. If I add my grain bill which is almost entirely Base Malt (8# pilsner, 1# Vienna, and 1# wheat,) Brun water says my mash pH with my adjusted water will be 5.3 and the Net mash acidity will be 10.5 (mEq). Should I not add any acidulated malt?

 

[ajdelange]

Don't worry about the magnesium but, OTOH, if you do dilute down more get the calcium and chloride levels up to about where they are with the 80% dilution.

Why the Vienna? It will richen the beer more than one traditionally thinks if with this style. Now if you have brewed with Vienna in your Kölsch before and like the result you can ignore that comment.
You do need acid. Without it your pH will probably be about 5.65 - 5.7. With 3% acidulated malt you should get around 5.45. At least that's what I get every time I brew Kölsch with similar water chemistry but I have alkalinity of about 10 and don't use any Vienna.

 

[SloTimes]

I was just toying with the idea of Vienna, but the more I think about it I dont think I want to do that. I think Ill probably go (8.5# pilsner, .5# White wheat, .5# Munich I).

I must be doing something wrong in Brun Water because with this grain bill and a 90% Diluted water with .6g/gal CaCl2 I get:

Calcium 48
Magnesium 2.5
Sodium 3.2
Sulfate 15
Chloride 82
Bicarbonate 18

And it tells me my mash pH is going to be 5.3 with Net Mash Acidity (mEq) 12.7. Should I just not believe Brun Water and add 3% Acidulated malt anyway?

 

[ajdelange]

I was just toying with the idea of Vienna, but the more I think about it I dont think I want to do that. I think Ill probably go (8.5# pilsner, .5# White wheat, .5# Munich I).

IMO replacing Vienna with Munich I is going in the wrong direction. Munich I adds even more richness than Vienna not to mention color. You really want Kölsch to be as delicate and light in color as you can get it. Pilsner malt with a bit of wheat for improved head is the traditional way to go.

And it tells me my mash pH is going to be 5.3 with Net Mash Acidity (mEq) 12.7. Should I just not believe Brun Water and add 3% Acidulated malt anyway?

It would probably be a good idea to do a reality check. You have 8.5 lbs pils and 0.5 lbs wheat. The last time I measured these they both doughed in at about 5.67 in distilled water and had buffering capacities of, respectively, 24.3 and 14.4 meq/kg-pH. To move these amounts of malt to pH 5.3 from DI pH (adjusted for the shift from the calcium) would require 31 mEq of acid. You also propose 0.5 lbs light Munich. The last time I checked that it had a DI pH of 5.37 and a buffering capacity of 15.6 mEq/kg-pH. To get this to pH 5.3 would require and additional 0.06 mEq of acid. Where is this acid to come from if you don't add it? It would take about 3.5% sauermalz to provide the amount needed.

Now if you ask for mash pH of 5.45 the total acid requirement to move the base malts is 16.4mEq but the Munich supplies 0.4 mEq so a total of 16 mEq is required. This could be supplied by 1.8% sauermalz

If OTOH, you don't use Munich but up the Pils by 0.5 lbs you would need 17.4 mEq acid which could come from 2% sauermalz.

So the sanity check says no, you shouldn't trust Bru'n water in this case. It's based on a model and there are lots of reasons why one must be careful with models (and perform sanity checks on them). Now the sanity check we just did was also based on a model so the question to you is as to which model is better or which should you believe. I, of course, believe the model I used for the sanity check because it matches what I see in the brewhouse but I wouldn't bet the farm on the accuracy of its predictions either.

Were I you I would drop the Munich and use 3% sauermalz and of course the main reason for making that recommendation is because that is what I do and it gives good results. But also were I you I would get a pH meter and check the actual pH of the mash and not rely on models to tell you what it is going to be.

 

[SloTimes]

OK Ok you've convinced me haha. Im going all pils and half pound of wheat plus. The beer gods can rest easy now. Your sanity check seems convincing to me to so ill use 3% acidulated malt. Thanks for all your input. Ill be sure to chime back in and let you know how it is in a few months.

Yeah a real pH meter would be nice (these crappy pH test strips aren't cutting it) someday soon Ill break down and drop the money for one but until then models are the best I can do. Thanks again!

 

[jtejedor]

Aj is dead on with his recommendations. I heavily dilute my water when doing a kolsch, my sulfate is not 0 but does end up being around 20ppm according to my calculations. The beer turns out awesome. Same thing for pale lagers. I have had some local examples and they were awful, I think they end up using all local water which is very hard here.

 

[paulbert07]

Does anyone have any information on how to input a custom profile into Bru'n water in the profile section under User Custom ? I have a profile to use but cannot input it into Bru'n water
Thanks for any help

 

[mabrungard]

Are you entering the data in the big table below the main water adjustment section? I think all of the water profile information is unprotected so that anyone can adjust it to their liking. Do be sure to get the ions to balance though!

 

[paulbert07]

Under desired water profile / user custom in the water adjustment tab

 

[mabrungard]

Scroll down that sheet and you will see the big table of water profiles. You can adjust any one of them.

 

[paulbert07]

Thank you !!
That's what I was looking for
Cheers

 

[literally_everything]

Hello, I'm a long time all-grain brewer, but I've never done water treatment before. I'm planning on brewing a Kolsch, and will be treating my water for the first time. I've read up a lot about water in the past few weeks (Bru'n Water Knowledge Page, The Water Book, How to Brew 4th Edition and GTA Brews intro to water, this thread) but of course no amount of reading will ease my nerves going into that first brew. So I'm hoping someone can take a look at my calculations and offer their thoughts.

This is for a 10 gallon batch (also my first time at this volume)

I'm in Toronto, so the most recent info on tap water that I have is this:
https://www.gtabrews.ca/toronto-water-profile/

Calcium (Ca) = 36.8 ppm
Magnesium (Mg) = 9.24 ppm
Sodium (Na) = 13.0 ppm
Sulphate (SO4) = 25.2 ppm
Chloride (Cl) = 25.9 ppm
Alkalinity = 86.7 ppm
pH range: 7.36 pH to 7.78 pH, with an average of 7.58 pH

My grain bill (based on a lot of what I read above) for 10.25 gallons is:

17 lbs pilsner (92.6%)
12 oz Wheat (4.1%)
9.6 oz acid malt (3.3%)

Est. OG 1.050

Using Bru'n Water I have the following for water treatment to achieve the Yellow Full profile:

Dilute 50% with RO water. Add 1.8g Gypsum, 2.5g Calcium Chloride for mash. 1.4g Gypsum, 2g Calcium Chloride for sparge with 3.2ml lactic acid for the sparge.

Bru'n Water tells me that this will result in:

Calcium (Ca) = 65 ppm
Magnesium (Mg) = 5 ppm
Sodium (Na) = 11 ppm
Sulphate (SO4) = 47 ppm
Chloride (Cl) = 71 ppm
Alkalinity = 36ppm
Mash pH = 5.32

Any comments, criticisms, reassurances will be much appreciated.

 

[ajdelange]

Re-read this whole thread. The discussion here is pretty informative.

The water you have is pretty good as is. Cutting it 1:1 with RO isn't a bad idea as it gets the sulfate down to where, IMO, you want it. So if you take this route skip the gypsum addition but do include the calcium chloride. Treat the full volume of water in the same way. Cutting your water 1:1 will reduce the alkalinity to 87/50/2 = 0.88 mEq/L so you will need about 0.8 mEq of lactic acid for each liter of the blended water. 1 mL of 88% lactic acid supplies about 11.5 mEq. Simplest thing to do is collect the total volume of water you intend to use and add lactic acid slowly and in small increments with thorough stirring until the water is at the desired mash pH. If you add too much just remove some of the over acidified water and replace it with more of the blend. Or actually, it is probably more practical to acidify the tap water to mash pH and then add an equal volume of RO water.

Having disposed of the alkalinity of the water you still need to deal with the alkalinity of the malt and the sauermalz you propose to use should do that.

 

[literally_everything]

Thanks! This is very helpful.

One question. When you say "collect the total volume of water you intend to use and add lactic acid slowly and in small increments with thorough stirring until the water is at the desired mash pH." what do you mean by desired mash pH, when at this stage I am just trating the water. Do you mean until I reach the appropriate amount of acid that was calculated, or am I actually measuring pH of the water at this point?

Sorry for nitpicking, I just want to make sure I understand correctly. My plan right now is to add the amount of acid that you specified to all of the water I plan to use then mash in, take a pH reading during the mash. Since the sparge water will be the same as the mash water, I am assuming that it will bring the pH level down a bit more after sparging. at which point I'll do another reading.

 

[ajdelange]

When you say "collect the total volume of water you intend to use and add lactic acid slowly and in small increments with thorough stirring until the water is at the desired mash pH." what do you mean by desired mash pH, when at this stage I am just trating the water.

Yes, you are treating the water but think about why you are treating it. You are adding acid to neutralize the alkalinity in the water. By "neutralize" we mean rendering it unable to adversely effect mash pH. If the water is adjusted to mash pH the alkalinity remaining in it cannot pull mash pH up. Once acidified to mash pH the water's alkalinity is 0 (with respect to mash pH and that's exactly what you want).

Do you mean until I reach the appropriate amount of acid that was calculated, or am I actually measuring pH of the water at this point?

The latter. When you use your calculator tell it that the water's alkalinity is 0. The calculator will then determine the amount of acid required to neutralize the alkalinity of the grains.

Sorry for nitpicking, I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

This is hardly nit picking. It is very important that you be clear on this.

My plan right now is to add the amount of acid that you specified to all of the water I plan to use then mash in, take a pH reading during the mash. Since the sparge water will be the same as the mash water, I am assuming that it will bring the pH level down a bit more after sparging.

If the mash is at pHz and the sparge water is at pHz adding the sparge water to the mash will not change the pH at all. It's like mixing two paints that are the same color (no color change) or paralleling two batteries charged to the same voltage (no current flow).

at which point I'll do another reading.

Extra pH readings never hurt a brew.

 

[rhys333]

I've been of the understanding that Kolsch has a soft water profile, but more sulfate than chloride a slight bitterness. Have I been living a lie?