What next? Progression in cider homebrewing.

[VasDeferensly]

So I've been messing around with cider brewing for a few years now, I started how a lot of people did, with a gallon glass jug, some champagne yeast, and an airlock. Now I make about 5 gallons every few months with store bought juice, and I just picked up a 3 gallon keg and some CO2 so I can start serving. My technique is pretty solid, and I can get a consistent product, the glaring exception being stove-top pasteurizing, of which I have yet to do successfully, and have minor PTSD from exploding 22s.

So for you guys who have been doing this a long time, what next? How did you guys move forward and produce better cider? The way it seems now, the next step is investing in better juice to start with, which sucks as I'm on a budget, and some temp control. There seems to be a void between $4-5/gallon and $10/gallon juice, and even then, it's not pressed for fermenting. Luckily this fall, I should be able to get a bunch of fruit cheap or free by urban foraging in Portland, so that's a good start, and I'm going to be looking into local orchards doing pressings.

I realize this is a bit of a ramble, but I can make a pretty decent drink, and I'd like to graduate to making something pretty good. So for you guys with experience, tell me how you progressed.

 

[Magnus314]

Next step is cold crashing at a certain FG and carbing at the same time. Get some plastic 1 gallon jugs - like Mott's, etc. and when the juice hits just above the FG you like, cold crash and store it.

You'll get carbonated, sweet (off dry, up to fully sweet - your choice), draft style cider.

 

[Maylar]

So for you guys who have been doing this a long time, what next? How did you guys move forward and produce better cider? The way it seems now, the next step is investing in better juice to start with, which sucks as I'm on a budget, and some temp control.

This. Better juice and temp control.

My ciders improved markedly when I started using fresh pressed juice and fermenting in the low 60° range. My "temp control" is at the mercy of Mother Nature, so I don't do cider until fall.

Adding a bit of tannin or aging on oak also improved my cider. So did aging for 3-4 months.

Portland is in apple country. There are orchards that press specifically for hard cider in most apple regions, so ask around. One orchard here will fill your fermenter with sweet cider for $4 a gallon.

 

[bembel]

"This. Better juice and temp control. "

Exactly!!!

Temp control is the easier of the two. Just build it. Even a $100 Window AC unit can be set to cool down a small room to 60f, if you want to go below 60f you need to hijack the temp controls, but there are lots of guides for doing that. Google "DIY Coolbot" if you are feeling adventurous.

Now juice is a bit more challenging, but you're in Portland, it could be worse...

Start calling local cider makers and ask them where they get their juice off season, if it's anything like MA, ( and from an orchard perspective it seems to be) there will be a few places that just press juice from nitrogen stored warehouse apples destined for market. Many places buy the 'seconds' year round and press juice each week. This is how Whole Foods has fresh pressed juice year round. In MA you can get fresh pressed dessert apple juice for $3 gallon from such places, you just have to be willing to pick up the phone and call around to find them. Many MANY cider makers in the Boston area get their juice from the same source year round. You just need to ask them nicely to share their source. Some local cider makers will even sell you juice if you ask them. So start asking. [emoji12][emoji519]

I'd also get the Scott Labs free online cider guide and catalog. They offer cider specific yeasts, acid and tannin additions, if you are stuck using Treetop you can 'cheat' a bit with their help.

Lastly, I know of a few final round entries in the upcoming NHC that use ( and consistently medal with ) Motts, so sure, you can up the ante with cider apples. but you can still make award winning cider with regular old apple juice.

 

[1bottlerocket]

This is an interesting topic for me too because I have been wondering the same thing. What is next?

I have now made about 4 batches of cider and each time it comes out a better than the previous. I am also getting my materials handling technique down better. My cellar stays at around a constant 15°-16°C so that makes it pretty solid for temperature control.

Lately I have been talking to local farms and seeing if they will do some custom juice pressing tailored for cider making. I also met a guy that works with a farm group and they are going to let me take part in their annual apple juice pressing when the time arrives.

I have been wondering what I could do next. I have been buying and sampling a lot of ciders from the UK to get an idea of the flavor direction I want to head. I am going to try the cold crashing method next time and see how that works out for me. I understand there are some risks involved so I want to be sure to get informed before moving forward.

Great thread idea! Maybe we can share notes as time progresses.

 

[landwaster]

Agree that temperature control helps. I simply put a tall 5g bucket with cider in a wider 5 gallon bucket and fill with ice water. I have a $30 temp controller (for pets) that I use just to watch the temperature of the juice (and I use it connected to heaters for winemaking). I try to keep it in the 60s.

Go to your local farmers market, talk to an orchard, and give them your buckets. They will probably be happy to press 5 gallons or more for you, and you might get a small discount. Make sure to ask for it unpasteurized.

A couple years ago I did a taste test with several different yeasts (you can find the thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=503461). Long story short, the White Labs Cider yeast tasted best and I felt like it helped retain a little bit of the apple essence (rather than plain dry like the champagne yeasts tend towards).

A small amount of oak will also make a huge difference in how complex it tastes.

My next step is sourcing actual cider apples.

 

[landwaster]

Definately try all the ciders you can. If you're east coast, pick them up wherever you find them in VT, NY, VA, PA, etc and takes notes.

Some of the flavored ciders are very interesting. Hops, cranberry, things that add bitterness and tannin seem to work best (for my taste at least).

 

[bernardsmith]

Apples juiced for hard cider tend to have more acidity, more tannin and more sugar than table apples or apples pressed for the soft drink market. So the next step might be to look for sources of fresh pressed apples sold for cider making. In my opinion there is really no comparison between the apple juice you can get at the supermarket and the juice that an orchard will press for you (even if the orchard will determine the mix of apples).

 

[1bottlerocket]

I am nearly finished reading the Claude Jolicoeur book, The New Cider Maker's Handbook, and it has been very informative for me. It has given me a lot of confidence moving forward for my next round of cider making.

After reading his section on keeving I am going to give that a go. He has some great instructions and contact information for getting the necessary equipment. I never would have considered it before reading this book, but he has some enough information to give me some reasonable confidence to make an attempt. I am on the border to France so getting the supplies should be a fairly easy task.

The next plan is to build a press and crusher using his plans.

I am in contact with Jacques Perritaz of Cidre Le Vulcain in Le Mouret, South of where I am living. I am hopefully going to purchase 60l of apple juice from him. It is still not finalised yet but hopefully soon.

http://www.cidrelevulcain.ch/wp/

I am not ready to try anything with flavours yet. I still want to perfect my my technique on a standard cider. The other two batches I have bottled I kind of have to laugh a bit to myself when I look back at my notes. I did some silly things but I guess it is all part of the learning process.

Jolicoeur indicates that a cider should not be expected to be ready to drink for nearly a year from the initial beginning. This alone has given me a new point of view on my expectations. He also recommends fermenting temperatures far lower than what I would have expected and saw on some Youtube videos. All interesting information.

I am hoping to start a blog on my latest adventures and see how that goes. I tend to go for the electronic documentation anyway as opposed to writing by hand so it may suit me better.

 

[cburke]

Some great info - about to start a 5-6 gallon batch, but now I want to follow up with several smaller batches to experiment.

1Bottlerocket - have not seen the book you are referring to, but I actually built my own grinder and press which, in my limited experience with other presses, work well. The grinder is a simple garbage disposal on a utility sink. Woks real well for doing a few bushels, never tried more. Thee press works like any other press and can fit a full bushel of apples once ground up. I'll try to post some pics as I use it this weekend.

 

[Lefou]

Next step is cold crashing at a certain FG and carbing at the same time. Get some plastic 1 gallon jugs - like Mott's, etc. and when the juice hits just above the FG you like, cold crash and store it.

You'll get carbonated, sweet (off dry, up to fully sweet - your choice), draft style cider.

...and the next step after THIS ... is malted cider.

This version adds steeped crystal malt grains for body and color, used with a neutral ale yeast, low to mid-60's fermentation temps. I am a beer guy and usually skip the cider, turning it into malted vinegar instead.