What makes an IPA??

[lyacovett]

I drank two different IPA's tonight. Sierra Nevada's 2009 Celebration Ale and Abita's Jockamo. To me, they seem to be one two different ends of the IPA spectrum. One it bitter, and has an overwhelming hop taste/aroma. The other has the IBU's to qualify as an IPA, but lacks greatly on the aroma/flavor front.

So this got me thinking .... what makes an IPA.. Is it just the IBU's ... according to style, or is it the flavor aroma front? And if you side on the aroma/flavor side .... why have the high IBU's. If I am not mistaken, the whole conception of the IPA was for the high acid/oil levels of the hops as a preservative as well as the higher alcohol level. Why do we need such high IBU's for an IPA? Why not just a high addition of dry hops/aroma flavoring hops, instead of the high early additions to the boil contributing heavily to the IBU's?

I am curious as to the different opinions on this. I have been wavering on some IPA recipes, and would like to nail one down.

 

[sudbuster]

I drank two different IPA's tonight. Sierra Nevada's 2009 Celebration Ale and Abita's Jockamo. To me, they seem to be one two different ends of the IPA spectrum. One it bitter, and has an overwhelming hop taste/aroma. The other has the IBU's to qualify as an IPA, but lacks greatly on the aroma/flavor front.

So this got me thinking .... what makes an IPA.. Is it just the IBU's ... according to style, or is it the flavor aroma front? And if you side on the aroma/flavor side .... why have the high IBU's. If I am not mistaken, the whole conception of the IPA was for the high acid/oil levels of the hops as a preservative as well as the higher alcohol level. Why do we need such high IBU's for an IPA? Why not just a high addition of dry hops/aroma flavoring hops, instead of the high early additions to the boil contributing heavily to the IBU's?

I am curious as to the different opinions on this. I have been wavering on some IPA recipes, and would like to nail one down.

Here is an interesting read conserning your question.

 

[permo]

without looking at that article or the actual definition of IPA, I would say SRM between 6 and 14, ABV between 5 and 8 and IBUs between 40 and 70 and FG between 1.005 and 1.020 or so. ....I would also say that late hop additions and dry hopping have become an integral part of the american IPA style. Hop aroma and flavor should be highlighted...malt profile comes second. For me, I don't even use bittering hops anymore...i use first wort hops and late hop additions for all of my APA, IPA, EPA..pretty much any pale ale or even my ESB's

I don't think celebration ale is an IPA techinically, it's too dark to fit the style isn't it?

 

[wildwest450]

I don't think celebration ale is an IPA techinically, it's too dark to fit the style isn't it?

It's within the guidelines for an american IPA, both are great beers btw.

 

[ultraplop]

It's not a true IPA unless you ship your beer to India!

 

[alcibiades]

An IPA is when you take a swig and only notice the hops.

 

[A4J]

Here is an interesting read conserning your question.

Interesting. I never noticed that Bass Ale is labeled as an IPA.

 

[bgough]

Interesting. I never noticed that Bass Ale is labeled as an IPA.

Bass is an English Pale Ale. I think that article was mistaken

 

[smmcdermott]

I hate that celebration ale...waaaay to spicey and bitter for me....BUT I am not a big fan of IPA's so that explains it...HAHA

 

[david_42]

American IPAs are very different from English IPAs, so there's really no point in looking at the traditional reasoning behind IPAs. The high hop flavor/aroma of a typical West Coast IPA is a recent development and there is a broad range for those elements as well as bittering levels. The higher IBUs are generally there to balance the alcohol levels and most important: PR.

 

[Edcculus]

This is the first place to go when you want to know "what defines a style"

BJCP.org - style guidelines for IPA

 

[Handle]

I am slowly coming over to the IPA side -- this is an interesting question. There are certainly other styles that offer IBUs in a similar range, just as there are IPAs that taste more like pale ales when compared to other examples of the style.

That being said, I just tried Celebration Ale a couple weeks ago. That reminds me, I need to go pick up another 12-pack of the stuff. I love it.

 

[Dr Malt]

Sudbuster:

Great article!! I am in total agreement with this for what constitutes an IPA.

Dr Malt

 

[Soybomb]

An IPA is when you take a swig and only notice the hops.

To me that's not really a good IPA. Hops may be the star but I think they need to be supported by a strong malty backbone.

The hops define the style but it still has to be a good beer too. Chocolate chips might define the chocolate chip cookie, but a pile of chips in lousy burned cookies aren't good chocolate chip cookies.

 

[DRoyLenz]

To me that's not really a good IPA. Hops may be the star but I think they need to be supported by a strong malty backbone.

The hops define the style but it still has to be a good beer too. Chocolate chips might define the chocolate chip cookie, but a pile of chips in lousy burned cookies aren't good chocolate chip cookies.

This is an excellent point. This is one of the reasons I'm a big fan of Bell's Two-Hearted Ale (duh). I really think that is a prime example of the 'balance' that should exist in an IPA (at least an American IPA) between the hops and the malts. I usually use this beer when I'm trying to educate someone as to what hops smell and taste like. It's not over the top bitter, but it DEFINITELY has a strong hoppy, floral/citrus aroma and taste, so I find that a lot of my BMC friends very much like this beer.

 

[Edcculus]

I agree, Two Hearted is great! A lot more flavor and balance than some of the West Coast hop sledgehammers. I know what hops are, no need to beat me senseless over the head screaming "THIS IS A HOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[Soybomb]

This is an excellent point. This is one of the reasons I'm a big fan of Bell's Two-Hearted Ale (duh). I really think that is a prime example of the 'balance' that should exist in an IPA (at least an American IPA) between the hops and the malts. I usually use this beer when I'm trying to educate someone as to what hops smell and taste like. It's not over the top bitter, but it DEFINITELY has a strong hoppy, floral/citrus aroma and taste, so I find that a lot of my BMC friends very much like this beer.

Thats the one I was thinking of oddly enough. Not that the pure bitter hop juice beer might not be a great beer to some people. I'm sure there are people that love it, for me though its not nearly as good as when its balanced well with malt.

 

[TeufelBrew]

Tried the Bells over TD. LOVED it.

Pliny in any variety is still my favorite. It is hop forward, but awesomely balanced. Not a hop slap into the next universe as evidenced by my SWMBO drinking an entire bottle and saying it was good, even thought she doesn't like IPA's.

 

[ramthebuffs]

I don't like IPA's with a lot of sweetness.

 

[josiahcox]

I know what hops are, no need to beat me senseless over the head screaming "THIS IS A HOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Errrrrmmmm......... but that's what makes if fun.

Maybe it's because I'm a left coaster but I love the fact that we can have IPA's here that ranges from very little IBU's and ABV all the way to huge monsters.
Frankly a 8%er with 100 IBU's that's had one week on a bunch of hops is heaven for me. It's like that I just brushed my teeth with hops feeling.
The need is there, maybe not for you but for the rest of us hop heads it's a must. To each there own I guess.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I don't like IPA's with a lot of sweetness.

I'm with you on this one. I like dry IPAs a lot. Sure, the malt needs to be present for balance, but I don't want it to be really on top of the hops at all.

 

[Brewsmith]

Bass is an English Pale Ale. I think that article was mistaken

No, Bass did used to have IPA on the label. I don't believe it's there any more with the latest modernization of the label, but until recently, there was IPA on the label.

 

[DRoyLenz]

I'm with you on this one. I like dry IPAs a lot. Sure, the malt needs to be present for balance, but I don't want it to be really on top of the hops at all.

This reminds me of Lucky Kat by Magic Hat Brewery, and, at least in that case, I agree that I'm not a big fan of beers that are out of balance in favor of the malt, I would rather drink an IPA that is out of balance in favor of the hops. When all is said and done, though, I think that balance is important.

Two great examples (as previously stated above):
Bell's Two-Hearted - OG 1.052 FG 1.010 IBUS 50-60 (?)
Russian River's Pliny the Elder - OG - 1.071 FG 1.012 (?) IBUS 100

Technically, the RR Pliny is an IIPA, but with the increased gravity, they increased the bitterness and hop presence perfectly. These are my two favorite IPAs.

 

[jtlawlor]

The article mentioned human IBU discernible limit, which I found interesting (considering the 100+IBU beers out there)

quote: =====
The following homebrew recipe will yield an IPA of about 7.5% ABV and 60 IBUs. Humans cannot really discern bitterness differences much beyond 60 IBUs, so to use more hops is sort of a waste. I prefer my IPA around 7% ABV so that I can enjoy two pints if the mood strikes; stronger beers lack utility.
==========

 

[Handle]

This is an excellent point. This is one of the reasons I'm a big fan of Bell's Two-Hearted Ale (duh). I really think that is a prime example of the 'balance' that should exist in an IPA (at least an American IPA) between the hops and the malts. I usually use this beer when I'm trying to educate someone as to what hops smell and taste like. It's not over the top bitter, but it DEFINITELY has a strong hoppy, floral/citrus aroma and taste, so I find that a lot of my BMC friends very much like this beer.

I agree completely. As I said, I'm very slowly getting into IPAs, but I love Bell's Two-Hearted for the reasons you describe above. I haven't had many of the style, but Bell's is by far my favorite.

 

[permo]

Maybe some of the focus on the APA is on hitting the style IBUs as opposed to on FWH,Dry hop and late hop additions which is really where the hop aroma and flavor comes from.

According to style guidelines, if you hit your IBU, color and ABV marks, techncially you fit the style. So you can make a technical IPA/APA that has one hop addition at 60 to hit the IBU's, but most of would think that would be a bitter beer with little to zero hop arroma. I think the late hop additions, dry hopping and FWH schedule and how those flavors and the bitterness balance with the malt and alchohol are what makes good apa. IMO.

For me the IBU's should rise with alcohol content. a 7-8% ABV IPA I think should be 50-70 IBU....and I like a littler higher FG too...1.016 to 1.020 than most.

 

[pantsmachine]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I recently(this past brewing season)made an IPA that had an initial IBU of approx 135. I'm not going to argue the case for or against on human biterness ceiling. The thing for me about the high IBU's was not the initial bitterness as it fades but the texture and depth to the beer which IMHO is largely there from the hop oils which remain in solution. Hope that makes sense, just cause we may have a ceiling for bitterness beyond which we can't tell doesn't mean that putting more hops in is a waste of time. Just my 10P worth. As an aside i am planning my 1st 200+IBU IPA tomorrow. There's no way the beer will be ready before Summer(Which in Scotland is the 2nd Aug to the 7th Aug Inclusive).

I assume its cool to post link to other threads off site? If not please remove the link Mods.
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29124