sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure that the infection came from the spigot, but just wanting to know what the infection is.
What is wrong and how do I fix it??
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I am pretty sure that the infection came from the spigot, but just wanting to know what the infection is.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I did not know they came apart. I am going over to post in that thread now.
StoutattheDevil
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This is another longshot but to add to the stressed yeast idea. What type of sugar do you use for bottling and do you heat it into a sugar solution before adding to your bottling bucket? If that solution is too warm that cold help impart issuse with the yeast in the bottles. Not the most likely of solutions but checking everything off the list can't hurt
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
I do boil corn sugar to carbonate, but I have always done that. And so far I have had only a handful of bad batches.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Now I am just furious! all of my batches are bad, with the exceptions of a few IPA's. I am dieing here. All but two tasted fine at bottling, and then went bad in the bottle, same as the rest. two were bad right out of the fermenter. Most of these beers have been sitting on the primary for a long time, what effect does this have on beer? I had to bring all of my carboys up stairs in the house to get the temp up to 65. Right now I am just throwing money away. 2 batches bad in the bottles, 1 in a keg, and one still in a carboy.
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Sparky - Here's how it's going to go. You have two options:
1) Find a local brewer who can go through the process with you, inspect all of your equipment and your house, and attempt to figure out what is going wrong.
or
2) Detail every single step, every single piece of equipment, every bit of cleaning and cleaner, and every ingredient you use chronologically in brewing your beer in this forum, and see if we can help you spot the problem.
---
However, I am going to throw out one other possibility that you might want to try. Take your equipment, go to a friend's house, clean the equipment thoroughly, get fresh ingredients, and brew a batch at your friend's house. Leave the beer to ferment at your friends, then bottle it. If you have one batch not go bad doing that, try a second batch that way. Then, come back, make one batch at home - see if it goes bad.
What I am wondering is if there is something environmental going on. Perhaps some type of nasty toxic mold or similar in your walls that is infecting your brews.
Or, do you have kids, and are they putting crayons in the brew?
Or do you have a spouse who does not appear of your brewing and is sabotaging you? Or maybe the Government is out to get you. Wait, now we're going into crazy talk. Back on track ...
I am going to speculate that you have a few possible problems:
1) You are not cleaning your gear well enough. Get new tubing, and clean what you have extra-carefully. Have someone who has a lot of experience brew with you and see if they can spot something wrong in your technique. You might even go so far as trying all new equipment.
2) Something in the environment is contaminating your beer. Try brewing somewhere else and see if it works.
-- Good luck!
1) Find a local brewer who can go through the process with you, inspect all of your equipment and your house, and attempt to figure out what is going wrong.
or
2) Detail every single step, every single piece of equipment, every bit of cleaning and cleaner, and every ingredient you use chronologically in brewing your beer in this forum, and see if we can help you spot the problem.
---
However, I am going to throw out one other possibility that you might want to try. Take your equipment, go to a friend's house, clean the equipment thoroughly, get fresh ingredients, and brew a batch at your friend's house. Leave the beer to ferment at your friends, then bottle it. If you have one batch not go bad doing that, try a second batch that way. Then, come back, make one batch at home - see if it goes bad.
What I am wondering is if there is something environmental going on. Perhaps some type of nasty toxic mold or similar in your walls that is infecting your brews.
Or, do you have kids, and are they putting crayons in the brew?
Or do you have a spouse who does not appear of your brewing and is sabotaging you? Or maybe the Government is out to get you. Wait, now we're going into crazy talk. Back on track ...I am going to speculate that you have a few possible problems:
1) You are not cleaning your gear well enough. Get new tubing, and clean what you have extra-carefully. Have someone who has a lot of experience brew with you and see if they can spot something wrong in your technique. You might even go so far as trying all new equipment.
2) Something in the environment is contaminating your beer. Try brewing somewhere else and see if it works.
-- Good luck!
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
I think I will opt for #2, as for I know no other home brewers locally. The local brew club seem to now be defunct.
Ok, this could get long-
First off, I clean everything in oxiclean, sanitize in star-san.
Brew day:
Take out all equipment.
Equipment is:
10 gallon cooler with cpvc manifold
HLT 36 quart igloo cooler
cpvc sparge manifold
all tubing is clear vinyl
valves are copper boiler valves
15 gallon SS brew pot
Start warming strike water.
Water report:
Unsoftened tap water as tested by Ward labs.
pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 236
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.39
Cations / Anions, me/L 4.1 / 4.2
ppm
Sodium, Na 7
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 55
Magnesium, Mg 12
Total Hardness, CaCO3 188
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 2
Chloride, Cl 9
Carbonate, CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 221
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 191
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Add a quarter to a half camdend tablet depending on volume.
This water is either 100 percent tap or cut with distilled water depending on style/color.
Dough in to a achieve desired temp. (150-155 degrees F)
I add salts as needed per palmer's mash RA v2d spreadsheet.
(these don't seem to matter as I have had dark beers, medium beers, lighter beers, turn out good and bad, but I do everything the same for every batch, so....dunno.
Mash for an hour-90 minutes.
add boiling water to raise temp to 165-168 for mash out.
Vourlof 2-4 quarts of wort.
sparge water gets a few ml of HCl acid to put Ph in check. other wise tap water.
fly sparge for about an hour.
I usually start the burner about half way through the sparge.
boil wort.
Take boil pot to the basement and submerge star-san sprayed copper wort chiller.
cool wort to below 80. Usually about 75 degrees.
Whirlpool wort.
While Whirlpooling I sanitize auto siphon, siphon hose, carboy, funnel, air lock, bung.
I sanitize the hoses, airlock, bung, and auto siphon in a one gallon pail fully submerging the hoses, air lock, bung, and spraying everything else with a spray bottle of star-san.
I then sipon the wort through the screen on the funnel.
I add the yeast, whether it be dry, starter, no starter, harvested, new smack pack, I have used them all.
I had put many of the brews in my crawl space, but they did not get warm enough, even when trying to ferment. They would get to about 58 degrees by the little stick on thermometer when fermenting, and drop to about 54 degrees when done. I had to bring them all up stairs into a spare bedroom where the temps would them get to about 64 degrees. On a few brews, I had to place the carboys onto my heated floor in the bathroom downstairs to bring the temp up even more, trying to bring down the FG. One is still sitting there, and the other is dry hopping right now.
Wait until FG is where it is going to stay.
Now for the most part, most all beers up to this point taste fine. The two that don't taste right directly out of the fermenter, it is not the same taste, similar, but not the same. I think I will continue in a second post, as to I belive the issue is after bottling, and this is getting long.
Ok, this could get long-
First off, I clean everything in oxiclean, sanitize in star-san.
Brew day:
Take out all equipment.
Equipment is:
10 gallon cooler with cpvc manifold
HLT 36 quart igloo cooler
cpvc sparge manifold
all tubing is clear vinyl
valves are copper boiler valves
15 gallon SS brew pot
Start warming strike water.
Water report:
Unsoftened tap water as tested by Ward labs.
pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 236
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.39
Cations / Anions, me/L 4.1 / 4.2
ppm
Sodium, Na 7
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 55
Magnesium, Mg 12
Total Hardness, CaCO3 188
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 2
Chloride, Cl 9
Carbonate, CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 221
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 191
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Add a quarter to a half camdend tablet depending on volume.
This water is either 100 percent tap or cut with distilled water depending on style/color.
Dough in to a achieve desired temp. (150-155 degrees F)
I add salts as needed per palmer's mash RA v2d spreadsheet.
(these don't seem to matter as I have had dark beers, medium beers, lighter beers, turn out good and bad, but I do everything the same for every batch, so....dunno.
Mash for an hour-90 minutes.
add boiling water to raise temp to 165-168 for mash out.
Vourlof 2-4 quarts of wort.
sparge water gets a few ml of HCl acid to put Ph in check. other wise tap water.
fly sparge for about an hour.
I usually start the burner about half way through the sparge.
boil wort.
Take boil pot to the basement and submerge star-san sprayed copper wort chiller.
cool wort to below 80. Usually about 75 degrees.
Whirlpool wort.
While Whirlpooling I sanitize auto siphon, siphon hose, carboy, funnel, air lock, bung.
I sanitize the hoses, airlock, bung, and auto siphon in a one gallon pail fully submerging the hoses, air lock, bung, and spraying everything else with a spray bottle of star-san.
I then sipon the wort through the screen on the funnel.
I add the yeast, whether it be dry, starter, no starter, harvested, new smack pack, I have used them all.
I had put many of the brews in my crawl space, but they did not get warm enough, even when trying to ferment. They would get to about 58 degrees by the little stick on thermometer when fermenting, and drop to about 54 degrees when done. I had to bring them all up stairs into a spare bedroom where the temps would them get to about 64 degrees. On a few brews, I had to place the carboys onto my heated floor in the bathroom downstairs to bring the temp up even more, trying to bring down the FG. One is still sitting there, and the other is dry hopping right now.
Wait until FG is where it is going to stay.
Now for the most part, most all beers up to this point taste fine. The two that don't taste right directly out of the fermenter, it is not the same taste, similar, but not the same. I think I will continue in a second post, as to I belive the issue is after bottling, and this is getting long.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Bottling day:
Get 2 cases of bottles ready. I use a vinator, with drying rack for the bottles. I spray the bottles with a few shots from the vinator, and place on the rack. I submerge all of the bottling parts in star-san. Hoses, spigot (disassembled) wand (disassembled), clamps, bottle caps. I spray the bottling bucket with star-san and tip upside down on the bottling tree with the bottles. I boil priming sugar (5 oz) in about 2-3 cups of water. assemble bottling bucket, place hot priming solution into bottling bucket and rack beer onto solution. I then remove caps from star-san, and place face down on a paper towel. When carboy is empty, I start filling bottles directly from the bottling tree, place a cap and if working with a partner sealed immediately, and if by myself, place a cap on about 10 bottles and then seal them all at once. During carbing, the bottles are in cases on the floor of my basement (cold). It takes at least 2-3 weeks to carbonate.
Now during carbonation, I can see this film forming on the side of the bottles. It seems to be "loose" and not fused to the side of the bottle until the beer is carbonated.
I really need help identifying what this "bad" is. To me and others it tastes like a Belgian, except bitter and dry. The bitterness is all on the back end of sip. It does seem as if some are worse than others. I have saved a batch of ESB from many months ago, and it is the worst of them. Also, it seem that the longer they sit the worse they get, until I check them 6-8 months later, and they seem better. I am testing that ESB for this. I brewed it last Sept. bottled in October. So I will give it a few more months to see what happens. Anyone in the twin cities a BJCP judge? I tried mailing once, and got a call from the usps the next day saying that the box was leaking. oops. Just happened to get a little cold that night and burst a bottle. I don't think they were to happy about that.
Ok, what did I miss?
Get 2 cases of bottles ready. I use a vinator, with drying rack for the bottles. I spray the bottles with a few shots from the vinator, and place on the rack. I submerge all of the bottling parts in star-san. Hoses, spigot (disassembled) wand (disassembled), clamps, bottle caps. I spray the bottling bucket with star-san and tip upside down on the bottling tree with the bottles. I boil priming sugar (5 oz) in about 2-3 cups of water. assemble bottling bucket, place hot priming solution into bottling bucket and rack beer onto solution. I then remove caps from star-san, and place face down on a paper towel. When carboy is empty, I start filling bottles directly from the bottling tree, place a cap and if working with a partner sealed immediately, and if by myself, place a cap on about 10 bottles and then seal them all at once. During carbing, the bottles are in cases on the floor of my basement (cold). It takes at least 2-3 weeks to carbonate.
Now during carbonation, I can see this film forming on the side of the bottles. It seems to be "loose" and not fused to the side of the bottle until the beer is carbonated.
I really need help identifying what this "bad" is. To me and others it tastes like a Belgian, except bitter and dry. The bitterness is all on the back end of sip. It does seem as if some are worse than others. I have saved a batch of ESB from many months ago, and it is the worst of them. Also, it seem that the longer they sit the worse they get, until I check them 6-8 months later, and they seem better. I am testing that ESB for this. I brewed it last Sept. bottled in October. So I will give it a few more months to see what happens. Anyone in the twin cities a BJCP judge? I tried mailing once, and got a call from the usps the next day saying that the box was leaking. oops. Just happened to get a little cold that night and burst a bottle. I don't think they were to happy about that.
Ok, what did I miss?
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Sparky:
It appears that your process is thorough. The fact this creates a film is odd, it makes me suspect the bottles; but if you also have a funk in some fermenters, then I am not sure. I have no idea what this is, but I do know a method you can use to find out where you are getting it from so you can eliminate it.
I find that whenever I am checking out a system and trying to find an error in it, it is best to eliminate as much as possible and test each piece independently. Keep in mind two things: (1) It may be an environmental problem, (2) It may be a process, not an equipment problem. However, by eliminating equipment and steps, we reduce the odds of it being either.
Thus, I recommend the following:
First, keep excruciatingly detailed and careful records throughout this entire process. Include in this environmental factors - is it raining, is it snowing, what temperature is it outside, have you had a cold recently, did your dog drink any of the wort, what were you wearing, who else entered and left the brew room while brewing, what time of day was it, where did you brew at, etc.
Do an extract brew. Eliminate all of the steps that you can. Thus skip the mash and sparge. Buy a new hose for the process, and new cleaner. When you get to bottling, buy new bottles, use the new cleaner, and hand fill the bottles. If it is easier to keep things cold, maybe you should do a lager instead ... otherwise, try to control temperature as best you can.
If the batch goes bad - you have eliminated the mashing equipment, hosing, and bottles from the potential suspects. If the batch is good, then I would first do a second batch, and see if it too is good. If you get two good batches, then you have a lot more testing in front of you.
If you have two good batches, the next step would be to make a batch with your usual bottling procedure and your existing bottles. Same test applies here - if it is bad, you have a culprit; if it is good, do a second batch. If you get two good batches, move on to testing your mash.
If you can simplify your mash equipment and procedure any, do so, test it, repeat process.
Eventually you should get a bad batch. When you do, look at what was different about this batch from the last batch - in any of equipment, ingredients, or environment. Anything different is a likely culprit.
Once you have a list of culprits, you have two choices. 1) Replace everything in that list; or 2) Replace the most likely suspects in the list and test again from the last point in the process you were at when the batch went bad. I would classify hoses, plastics, anything that is not glass or metal, or has a scratch or ding as a more likely suspect.
If you replace those, and it still goes bad, you have two potential culprits - something else, or an earlier step. I would back up one brew time, eliminate the newly added equipment, and test again. Make sure it is not just environment or chance and that the brew just went bad on the third time through.
Now the special situation - it goes bad on your very first extract batch. Replace all the likely suspects and try again. If it is still bad, I am going to bet it is something in the environment and not in your equipment. At that point hire an inspector to come out and check your home for molds, toxins, and other potential problems.
---
Finally, out of your entire process, I would say the most likely suspects are (1) mash tun, (2) tubing, (3) bottles, (4) environment, (5) bottles and caps, (6) process. The environment is going to be the hardest to correct for -- I would actually hire someone to come out and check my house for molds and similar problems. The others are going to take testing and checking to discover which is the cause, but you can fix them. Also, it is possible for mildew, mold, bacteria, and other suspects to evolve a resistance to sanitization chemicals ... great brewer in the sky help us all if this happens.
----
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
It appears that your process is thorough. The fact this creates a film is odd, it makes me suspect the bottles; but if you also have a funk in some fermenters, then I am not sure. I have no idea what this is, but I do know a method you can use to find out where you are getting it from so you can eliminate it.
I find that whenever I am checking out a system and trying to find an error in it, it is best to eliminate as much as possible and test each piece independently. Keep in mind two things: (1) It may be an environmental problem, (2) It may be a process, not an equipment problem. However, by eliminating equipment and steps, we reduce the odds of it being either.
Thus, I recommend the following:
First, keep excruciatingly detailed and careful records throughout this entire process. Include in this environmental factors - is it raining, is it snowing, what temperature is it outside, have you had a cold recently, did your dog drink any of the wort, what were you wearing, who else entered and left the brew room while brewing, what time of day was it, where did you brew at, etc.
Do an extract brew. Eliminate all of the steps that you can. Thus skip the mash and sparge. Buy a new hose for the process, and new cleaner. When you get to bottling, buy new bottles, use the new cleaner, and hand fill the bottles. If it is easier to keep things cold, maybe you should do a lager instead ... otherwise, try to control temperature as best you can.
If the batch goes bad - you have eliminated the mashing equipment, hosing, and bottles from the potential suspects. If the batch is good, then I would first do a second batch, and see if it too is good. If you get two good batches, then you have a lot more testing in front of you.
If you have two good batches, the next step would be to make a batch with your usual bottling procedure and your existing bottles. Same test applies here - if it is bad, you have a culprit; if it is good, do a second batch. If you get two good batches, move on to testing your mash.
If you can simplify your mash equipment and procedure any, do so, test it, repeat process.
Eventually you should get a bad batch. When you do, look at what was different about this batch from the last batch - in any of equipment, ingredients, or environment. Anything different is a likely culprit.
Once you have a list of culprits, you have two choices. 1) Replace everything in that list; or 2) Replace the most likely suspects in the list and test again from the last point in the process you were at when the batch went bad. I would classify hoses, plastics, anything that is not glass or metal, or has a scratch or ding as a more likely suspect.
If you replace those, and it still goes bad, you have two potential culprits - something else, or an earlier step. I would back up one brew time, eliminate the newly added equipment, and test again. Make sure it is not just environment or chance and that the brew just went bad on the third time through.
Now the special situation - it goes bad on your very first extract batch. Replace all the likely suspects and try again. If it is still bad, I am going to bet it is something in the environment and not in your equipment. At that point hire an inspector to come out and check your home for molds, toxins, and other potential problems.
---
Finally, out of your entire process, I would say the most likely suspects are (1) mash tun, (2) tubing, (3) bottles, (4) environment, (5) bottles and caps, (6) process. The environment is going to be the hardest to correct for -- I would actually hire someone to come out and check my house for molds and similar problems. The others are going to take testing and checking to discover which is the cause, but you can fix them. Also, it is possible for mildew, mold, bacteria, and other suspects to evolve a resistance to sanitization chemicals ... great brewer in the sky help us all if this happens.
----
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much for taking the time to do this for me, I actually was thinking of brewing an extract kit to eliminate the mash tun/all grain side of it. I really need to have an experienced brewer taste this stuff as the issue is all the same, so with that in mind I am hoping they would know exactly what I am dealing with and could help me pin-point the issue faster.
As for the film, it is a big mystery. Next clear bottle that has it, I will take a few more pictures after it dries. I looked back, at the picture I took, and it is hard to see what I am talking about.
As for the film, it is a big mystery. Next clear bottle that has it, I will take a few more pictures after it dries. I looked back, at the picture I took, and it is hard to see what I am talking about.
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The film is also occurring on brown bottles? Or just clear? Are you keeping your clear bottles in a dark place?
-- I take that back, I see you answered it earlier. I would still throw something dark and heavy over them, just in case. And try new, glass, brown bottles.
-- I take that back, I see you answered it earlier. I would still throw something dark and heavy over them, just in case. And try new, glass, brown bottles.
Dude, I think that if you have replaced ALL plastic equipment from the boil forward, then it must be something in your air. Try brewing somewhere else. Outside if possible (or inside if you brew outside. You could have an infection in the fermenter that doesn't show for several weeks, which might make it appear to be a bottling equipment problem. But the odds are that it really is a bottling equipment infection. (or airborne contamination problem).
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
I keep the beer in the cardboard cases, shut, in an very dark basement, I have even placed some in my crawl space which gets zero light.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
I really am leaning that it is bottling also, Some of the beers are in the fermenters for months, and taste fine before bottling. My RIS was fine after 8 months in a secondary, and after a month or so in the bottle I noticed the off flavor and the film.
I am wondering if boiling the priming sugar is suspect. I think I am going to replace everything that I use on bottling day, hoses, bucket, spigot, bottling cane to see if that is the culprit. On last thought, I have not cleaned the bottling tree, I just figured with all of the star-san running out of the bottles it would be fine? Maybe not? That will get a run through the dishwasher before the next bottling day.
You have some sustained microbial population that is killing your beers. It is the same infection and it is has never been erradicated. Change out all your plastic equipment, bugs can live in the scratches. Change where you brew. Your environment might be responsible.
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Could have some type of funk in the crawl space. Something you are getting on your hands or in the air when you move bottles around.
Just out of curiosity, how could the mash tun be responsible for an infection? Short of it not even being washed out for weeks on end between uses any small infection it may have should get wasted in the boil, right? It was my understanding that sanitation really became key after the wort dropped below 170 or so during the chill.
As for the problem it definitely sounds like a bottling issue, I would have replaced that whole line a long time ago.
As for the problem it definitely sounds like a bottling issue, I would have replaced that whole line a long time ago.
Is your basement a dark, dank scary place typical of older homes (like mine) or is it tight and dry like found in newer homes? I have seen many people say to replace tubing but what about the auto-syphon, I don't use one my self but have seen a few threads where they were found to be the cause of infections. Are you sanitizing the lid you cover your brew pot with when you move it to the basement and the spoon you use to whirlpool. These are just some random thoughts I had while reading this thread, hope they help
One other thing, if I were in you shoes I think I would bleach every thing that comes in contact with the post boil beer including the bottles, rinse well and soak in star san until time to use it and I think I would continue to do that until I figured out what the problem was. Good Luck,
One other thing, if I were in you shoes I think I would bleach every thing that comes in contact with the post boil beer including the bottles, rinse well and soak in star san until time to use it and I think I would continue to do that until I figured out what the problem was. Good Luck,
Stevesmirk
Active Member
When was the last time the bottle tree was disassembled and thoroughly cleaned? Any chance of the prongs carrying an infection?
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
My crawl space is just an extension of my basement, but with no windows and a door. My house is only a 10 years old and the basement is finished. It is dark because it has all of the the shades drawn for watching the idiot-box. Plus the beers are in cardboard cases behind my bar. I figured that would be dark enough.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
All excellent ideas, as for the auto siphon, I use it to rack beers to secondary. But it should go. About the lid and spoon, yes, we spray them both down with star-san. I did bleach bomb the whole works, and replaced the bottling spigot a while back, which did seem to help,for a while, but why does the star-san not kill the stuff? The super bug!!
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
consider it done!
All excellent ideas, as for the auto siphon, I use it to rack beers to secondary. But it should go. About the lid and spoon, yes, we spray them both down with star-san. I did bleach bomb the whole works, and replaced the bottling spigot a while back, which did seem to help,for a while, but why does the star-san not kill the stuff? The super bug!!
It is a super bug, and whatever you are doing to clean and sanitize is not erradicating it. I would get rid of your bottle collection, replace all plastic parts and tubing and boil/soak in chlorine/uv lamp/autoclave anything else that comes in contact with the wort/beer after the boil.
JeepDiver
Well-Known Member
Your bottling tree should come apart and get dipped in starsan before using it, as well as the base of it.
It also sounds like you are putting in your bottling sugar at too hot of a temp. It needs to cool off before going in the bucket and the wort going on top of it, or you will shock the yeast.
I start my sugar and get it boiling, then move it off the heat to cool before doing anything else.
I make up 5 gallons of starsan in my bottling bucket, rinse the top of the bucket with the starsan, then move half of the starsan to another bucket using my auto-siphon, and the other half through the bottling bucket spigot. Then all of the equipment, including the broken down bottle tree and vinator gets put in the bucket of starsan. Then I take out the auto siphon and hose and transfer the beer to the bottling bucket while the rest of the equipment rest. The top from my fermenter gets cleaned off and sprayed with starsan and goes onto the top of the bucket.
I then rinse off the hose and re-sanitize it by running some starsan through it and dipping it in the bucket then put on the bottling wand (don’t forget to run starsan through the wand a few times by depressing the end of it)
Then the tree gets put together and my already clean bottles (I just rinse them out completely when I empty them, put them upside down to dry, then into a box until I need them for the next batch), gets pumped several times to make sure they are almost filled up, then the mouths are dipped in the starsan in the vinator (usually work with 2 bottles at a time and dip one while pumping the other), and hang them on the tree.
After the bottles are cleaned I throw the needed bottle caps in the vinator tub to soak.
I’ve found that putting the bottles in the boxes while filling is not a good thing. The cardboard is too close to the open mouths, and you have a good chance of hitting it when moving the bottling wand around. It works much better to just put them on a flat surface (table, or floor, or dishwasher door). I fill a dozen or so bottle, then cap them (I turn off the spigot and put the bottling wand in the bucket of starsan while I am capping the bottles). I also dip my capper in the starsan as well.
After through bottling, I clean everything with un-scented oxyclean and/or ivory dishwashing detergent by hand, then let it all air dry for a day or two, then it goes back up in it’s storage area clean and ready for the next time, where all I have to do is sanitize it again.
It also sounds like you are putting in your bottling sugar at too hot of a temp. It needs to cool off before going in the bucket and the wort going on top of it, or you will shock the yeast.
I start my sugar and get it boiling, then move it off the heat to cool before doing anything else.
I make up 5 gallons of starsan in my bottling bucket, rinse the top of the bucket with the starsan, then move half of the starsan to another bucket using my auto-siphon, and the other half through the bottling bucket spigot. Then all of the equipment, including the broken down bottle tree and vinator gets put in the bucket of starsan. Then I take out the auto siphon and hose and transfer the beer to the bottling bucket while the rest of the equipment rest. The top from my fermenter gets cleaned off and sprayed with starsan and goes onto the top of the bucket.
I then rinse off the hose and re-sanitize it by running some starsan through it and dipping it in the bucket then put on the bottling wand (don’t forget to run starsan through the wand a few times by depressing the end of it)
Then the tree gets put together and my already clean bottles (I just rinse them out completely when I empty them, put them upside down to dry, then into a box until I need them for the next batch), gets pumped several times to make sure they are almost filled up, then the mouths are dipped in the starsan in the vinator (usually work with 2 bottles at a time and dip one while pumping the other), and hang them on the tree.
After the bottles are cleaned I throw the needed bottle caps in the vinator tub to soak.
I’ve found that putting the bottles in the boxes while filling is not a good thing. The cardboard is too close to the open mouths, and you have a good chance of hitting it when moving the bottling wand around. It works much better to just put them on a flat surface (table, or floor, or dishwasher door). I fill a dozen or so bottle, then cap them (I turn off the spigot and put the bottling wand in the bucket of starsan while I am capping the bottles). I also dip my capper in the starsan as well.
After through bottling, I clean everything with un-scented oxyclean and/or ivory dishwashing detergent by hand, then let it all air dry for a day or two, then it goes back up in it’s storage area clean and ready for the next time, where all I have to do is sanitize it again.
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Well, now I wait, I just bottled my second half of my 10 gallon furious clone on Saturday, all new stuff. Auto siphon, hose, bottling bucket, bottling spigot, filling wand, all new. I let the sugar cool longer than I used to, so we will see.
Not expecting much here, bottled the first half awhile ago with no issues. Right in the middle of bad batches.
Not expecting much here, bottled the first half awhile ago with no issues. Right in the middle of bad batches.
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I operate on the theory of eliminating everything extraneous from the equation. There are some heat resistant bacteria that have been known to get into milk and survive, despite aggressive pasteurization. On that theory, I do not think it is impossible that someone could pick up a heat resistant bacteria that is living in the wort equipment. Equipment that may get a less vigorous clean because it seems unlikely to be the cause of infection. Even then though, you are right, it is unlikely, but why leave it in the equation when it is one of the easiest things to eliminate as a possibility?
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Sounds like Sparky is headed down the right path. Hope replacing the bottling equipment solves his problems!
sparkyaber
Well-Known Member
Another update, this is getting too bizarre- The latest bad batches are turning around- the off flavor seems to be reducing, along with the "film" on the inside!!! The two batches that I kegged that I thought were bad, turned out ok. The nut brown was a little estery, and the SNPA which when I kegged it, I was sure it was ruined, tastes just fine. The batch of ESB that was brewed last summer/fall, is still bad. I am going to a Minnesota Homebrewers Meeting this weekend and hopefully someone can identify what I have.
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