What is meant by ferment dry?

[Sculptorofstone]

I am making skeeter pee for the first time. I’m at the stage where my bucket of pee should be fermenting and the instructions say “allow the skeeter pee to ferment dry and for fermentation to stop.” I understand the fermentation stop part but ‘and’ seems to indicate something else that I am to look for. I tried finding a definition of ferment dry online, but no joy.
I’m on day three of fermenting and I don’t see any action yet, despite going through each step exactly as written. (Skeeterpee.com). SG started at 1.070 and is now 1.075+. Kept at 76 F.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[VikeMan]

Ferment Dry just means ferment until all the sugars that can be used have been used. Technically, fermentation could stop before that point (stuck fermentation), so it could "stop" before it's "dry," and you wouldn't want to bottle that.

SG started at 1.070 and is now 1.075+. Kept at 76 F.

One of those measurements must be off. Gravity doesn't increase during fermentation. Perhaps the wort/must wasn't fully mixed when you measured the original gravity.

 

[AlexKay]

One of those measurements must be off. Gravity doesn't increase during fermentation. Perhaps the wort/must wasn't fully mixed when you measured the original gravity.

It that’s a Tilt measurement, it’s not unusual for it to be off. Especially with higher gravity beers, it’s common enough for the gravity to go up a few points when things start kicking off. Just part of life with Tilts.

 

[whattabrau]

Dry means for wine an SG (FG) of <1.000.

Specifically, for skeeter pee, it usually has pH issues, as in the pH is too low for the yeast to comfortably start working. A pH meter really helps in pinpointing the problem, but if you don't have one, you can try adding small amounts of baking soda, in the order of 0.1g/L, to see if that gets it started (0.1g/L adds 27mg/L sodium to your wine, so keep that in mind if you think you need to add more). Draw a sample, add the powder the sample, and reintroduce the sample and stir. I use potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate, and if you have those at hand, I recommend them instead of baking soda, but baking soda will do in a pinch.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

Ferment Dry just means ferment until all the sugars that can be used have been used. Technically, fermentation could stop before that point (stuck fermentation), so it could "stop" before it's "dry," and you wouldn't want to bottle that.



One of those measurements must be off. Gravity doesn't increase during fermentation. Perhaps the wort/must wasn't fully mixed when you measured the original gravity.

Thank you! I did wonder about the SG going up and thought that was impossible. You’re right, I don’t think the must was fully mixed. I hope that I didn’t mess it up. I whisk it once a day, as per the instructions but no movement yet.
I appreciate your reply.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

The recipe I used, if anyone is interested.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

Dry means for wine an SG (FG) of <1.000.

Specifically, for skeeter pee, it usually has pH issues, as in the pH is too low for the yeast to comfortably start working. A pH meter really helps in pinpointing the problem, but if you don't have one, you can try adding small amounts of baking soda, in the order of 0.1g/L, to see if that gets it started (0.1g/L adds 27mg/L sodium to your wine, so keep that in mind if you think you need to add more). Draw a sample, add the powder the sample, and reintroduce the sample and stir. I use potassium carbonate and calcium carbonate, and if you have those at hand, I recommend them instead of baking soda, but baking soda will do in a pinch.

That’s great information. Thank you. Yes, I have both of those to hand, as the recipe later calls for their addition. What a learning curve. Cheers for the help.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

It that’s a Tilt measurement, it’s not unusual for it to be off. Especially with higher gravity beers, it’s common enough for the gravity to go up a few points when things start kicking off. Just part of life with Tilts.

Very interesting. I had no idea. Thanks for taking the time to explain. At least it’s an indication that something is happening in the bucket, despite the no bubbles. I live in hope.

 

[VikeMan]

It that’s a Tilt measurement, it’s not unusual for it to be off. Especially with higher gravity beers, it’s common enough for the gravity to go up a few points when things start kicking off. Just part of life with Tilts.

Very interesting. I had no idea. Thanks for taking the time to explain. At least it’s an indication that something is happening in the bucket, despite the no bubbles. I live in hope.

Wait. @Sculptorofstone are you actually using a Tilt? If not, what @AlexKay said doesn't apply. Real gravity does not increase. Tilts can give false readings, due to their design and way they are used, resulting in apparent (but false) increases in gravity. It's a measurement error.

If you are not using a Tilt, the apparent (but false) increase in gravity reading does not indicate that something is happening. (Something may be happening, but the erroneous measurement doesn't indicate that it is.)

 

[AlexKay]

Very interesting. I had no idea. Thanks for taking the time to explain. At least it’s an indication that something is happening in the bucket, despite the no bubbles. I live in hope.

I really like my Tilts, but you have to take them for what they are. The measurement is good when you first put it into the wort, but when fermentation starts, yeast can get on it and upsets the balance. Sometimes it stays accurate, sometimes it's a few points high or low. The useful information provided is when fermentation starts and when it's leveled off. (And yes, if you're not using a Tilt, this is all irrelevant.)

 

[whattabrau]

That’s great information. Thank you. Yes, I have both of those to hand, as the recipe later calls for their addition. What a learning curve. Cheers for the help.

I do not see them in your recipe (but maybe I'm blind). Potassium metabisulfite or sorbate is not the same thing. Do *NOT* add them during fermentation. The thing you need to raise pH is something-carbonate, hence potassium [bi]carbonate, chalk (calcium carbonate) or baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Carbonate reacts with the protons (acid) and forms water and carbon dioxide, thereby getting rid of the proton and raising the pH (pH, after all, is the concentration of protons in solution, with more protons = lower pH).

Yes, wine-like (wine, mead, skeeter pee, seltzer, ...) fermentations are somewhat involved and require babysitting. You might get lucky with "toss in ingredients and cross fingers", or you might not. For the best results (rapid and complete fermentation without off-flavors) you need to be on top of the game. It's not something you need to be overly concerned with in the beginning, but as your skills grow, you might notice that the pH meter is your most important instrument (matter of opinion/style, hence the conditional "might").

 

[Sculptorofstone]

Wait. @Sculptorofstone are you actually using a Tilt? If not, what @AlexKay said doesn't apply. Real gravity does not increase. Tilts can give false readings, due to their design and way they are used, resulting in apparent (but false) increases in gravity. It's a measurement error.

If you are not using a Tilt, the apparent (but false) increase in gravity reading does not indicate that something is happening. (Something may be happening, but the erroneous measurement doesn't indicate that it is.)

No Tilt, just a regular glass hydrometer. I took a reading again this morning and it’s the exact same. It’s a shame that it’s not fermenting after the extra care I put into the prep so that there’d be low to no sulphites or chlorine and as is, it tastes fantastic…but I wanted a bit of a bang for my Realemon buck. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

I do not see them in your recipe (but maybe I'm blind). Potassium metabisulfite or sorbate is not the same thing. Do *NOT* add them during fermentation. The thing you need to raise pH is something-carbonate, hence potassium [bi]carbonate, chalk (calcium carbonate) or baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Carbonate reacts with the protons (acid) and forms water and carbon dioxide, thereby getting rid of the proton and raising the pH (pH, after all, is the concentration of protons in solution, with more protons = lower pH).

Yes, wine-like (wine, mead, skeeter pee, seltzer, ...) fermentations are somewhat involved and require babysitting. You might get lucky with "toss in ingredients and cross fingers", or you might not. For the best results (rapid and complete fermentation without off-flavors) you need to be on top of the game. It's not something you need to be overly concerned with in the beginning, but as your skills grow, you might notice that the pH meter is your most important instrument (matter of opinion/style, hence the conditional "might").

I got out my pH reader just now and it says 6.8. Is that high?
Re: ingredient list I think I am not on the right track. It later calls for “Kmeta” and when I looked that up, it said that it’s potassium metabisulphite. It calls for Sorbate, which I took to mean potassium sorbate. (Stabiliser.)
Thank you for your help. Even if I have to dump it out and start again, I will, as I am determined to get it right.

 

[whattabrau]

I got out my pH reader just now and it says 6.8. Is that high?

A pH of 6.8 is *extremely* high for a mixture of lemon juice, water and sugar. It is typically something like 2.5 - 2.8 (depending on the lemon juice and water used). Are you sure you are measuring it correctly? Did you calibrate your meter and does it read the correct value in the buffer solutions used for calibration?

Re: ingredient list I think I am not on the right track. It later calls for “Kmeta” and when I looked that up, it said that it’s potassium metabisulphite. It calls for Sorbate, which I took to mean potassium sorbate. (Stabiliser.)
Thank you for your help. Even if I have to dump it out and start again, I will, as I am determined to get it right.

Yes "K-meta" is potassium metabisulfate and "sorbate" is potassium sorbate, but they should be added only after fermentation when the product is completely clear and racked off of any yeast.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

A pH of 6.8 is *extremely* high for a mixture of lemon juice, water and sugar. It is typically something like 2.5 - 2.8 (depending on the lemon juice and water used). Are you sure you are measuring it correctly? Did you calibrate your meter and does it read the correct value in the buffer solutions used for calibration?

Yes "K-meta" is potassium metabisulfate and "sorbate" is potassium sorbate, but they should be added only after fermentation when the product is completely clear and racked off of any yeast.

Okay, thanks for that. My pH reader is a cheapie so I won’t count on that. I’ll head out today and buy a new one and tested. Thanks for the support.

 

[whattabrau]

Okay, thanks for that. My pH reader is a cheapie so I won’t count on that. I’ll head out today and buy a new one and tested. Thanks for the support.

Cheers. Just make sure you realize that a pH meter is an instrument that works by eroding itself, so regardless of the pricepoint you *must* calibrate it periodically, and especially before the first use. To that end, you must buy buffer solutions in which the meter is calibrated, either as dry powder that you mix yourself into distilled water or as ready-mixed solutions. It all might sound intimidating, but once you get the hang of using your pH meter there's nothing to it.

 

[Sculptorofstone]

Cheers. Just make sure you realize that a pH meter is an instrument that works by eroding itself, so regardless of the pricepoint you *must* calibrate it periodically, and especially before the first use. To that end, you must buy buffer solutions in which the meter is calibrated, either as dry powder that you mix yourself into distilled water or as ready-mixed solutions. It all might sound intimidating, but once you get the hang of using your pH meter there's nothing to it.

You’re a wealth of information! Thanks. Another thing that I didn’t know about. I went yesterday to the small brew supply place in town, but it didn’t have pH strips or a reader. So, now that I know it’s my lack of understanding and not the metre, I’ll follow up with learning to regularly calibrate it. It does indeed all sound intimidating but I am hell bent on learning about brewing. Thank you, again. When I checked this morning, there were slight signs of fermentation in my bucket. Here’s hoping. Thanks, again, very much.

 

[whattabrau]

You’re a wealth of information! Thanks. Another thing that I didn’t know about. I went yesterday to the small brew supply place in town, but it didn’t have pH strips or a reader. So, now that I know it’s my lack of understanding and not the metre, I’ll follow up with learning to regularly calibrate it. It does indeed all sound intimidating but I am hell bent on learning about brewing. Thank you, again. When I checked this morning, there were slight signs of fermentation in my bucket. Here’s hoping. Thanks, again, very much.

Small brewshops might not carry them, or at least one you'd want, because it's not really a specialty item for brewing, and I imagine the margins would be pretty crappy. I think I got mine (MW-102) from Amazon.

Once the fermentation gets going, it should be fine. That's actually the reason, at least as far as I know, why the recipe reserves the last bottle of lemon juice until later: don't add too much acid i.e. drop the pH to rockbottom until the yeast are feeling reasonably cozy.

btw, some nugget of info which might save you some headscratching later in your career: unlike the recipe claims, sulfur dioxide (SO2) doesn't smell like rotten eggs. H2S smells like rotten eggs. If you want to know what SO2 smells like, mix some K-meta in water and smell the the solution (but do it carefully; inhaling large amounts of SO2 is not a good idea). Knowing what SO2 smells like is a good idea because if your finished product has even a hint of it, it means you added too much K-meta (or Na-meta).

 

[Sculptorofstone]

Small brewshops might not carry them, or at least one you'd want, because it's not really a specialty item for brewing, and I imagine the margins would be pretty crappy. I think I got mine (MW-102) from Amazon.

Once the fermentation gets going, it should be fine. That's actually the reason, at least as far as I know, why the recipe reserves the last bottle of lemon juice until later: don't add too much acid i.e. drop the pH to rockbottom until the yeast are feeling reasonably cozy.

btw, some nugget of info which might save you some headscratching later in your career: unlike the recipe claims, sulfur dioxide (SO2) doesn't smell like rotten eggs. H2S smells like rotten eggs. If you want to know what SO2 smells like, mix some K-meta in water and smell the the solution (but do it carefully; inhaling large amounts of SO2 is not a good idea). Knowing what SO2 smells like is a good idea because if your finished product has even a hint of it, it means you added too much K-meta (or Na-meta).

Good to know and a great suggestion to get an inkling of what it smells like so I know what to be looking for. Very helpful. I will write down your helpful suggestions in my notes. Thanks for your time and for sharing your knowledge. Also, I’ll go through Amazon. I like to support my small town shops but if he hasn’t got it, he hasn’t got it.