What hop combination will get me grapefruit and pine?

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robcj

robcj

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I recently brewed the pale ale below two weeks ago with Mosaic and it turned out fantastic. Even better, I've already been drinking it for two days. This keg is going to drain quickly so I want to brew it again but with different hops.

This time I'm looking for the classic west coast hop profile--specifically a combination of grapefruit and pine. And some resiny dankness. Ideally I would keep the same hop schedule, adding hops only in the last twenty minutes of the boil plus whirlpool and dry hop additions. I like the flavour and aroma that method extracts. I have 2oz each of Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus and Simcoe on hand and the stores are closed for the next two days so that's what I'm working with. I would appreciate any suggestions to get me to that flavour profile!

Riverdale Pale Ale (Mosaic Single Hop Edition)
OG 1.053
FG 1.012
IBU 35
SRM 4

2-Row: 85%
Vienna: 8%
Crystal 35: 5%
Acidulated: 2%

Mashed at 152.

Mosaic: 0.5oz at 20 mins
Mosaic: 0.5oz at 15 mins
Mosaic: 0.5oz at 10 mins
Mosaic: 0.5oz at 5 mins
Mosaic: 1oz at turn off
Mosaic: 1oz dry hop

Fermented with US-05 at 64 degrees for 4 days then ramped up to 72 degrees over 4 days. Cold crashed for 2 days, transferred to keg, fined with gelatin and burst carbonated over two days. Ready to drink in 12 days!

IMG_9377.jpg
 
I always get tons of grapefruit from the combo of Citra/Mosaic

From what you have, I haven't picked up grapefruit from Simcoe, Columbus, Centennial. I don't use Cascade or Amarillo but maybe you could coax it out of those. I sometimes get some pine from Simcoe and Columbus.
 
hezagenius said:
I always get tons of grapefruit from the combo of Citra/Mosaic

From what you have, I haven't picked up grapefruit from Simcoe, Columbus, Centennial. I don't use Cascade or Amarillo but maybe you could coax it out of those. I sometimes get some pine from Simcoe and Columbus.
Click to expand...

YCH says that Amarillo and Cascade both have hints of grapefruit so maybe you're right. It also says that Simcoe has hints of pine.

So maybe Amarillo, Cascade and Simcoe?
 
I really like Comet for grapefruit as well (more zest than juice).
 
I did some homework. Beers that really capture the northwest style in a way that appeals to me include Driftwood Fat Tug, Green Flash West Coast IPA and Russian River Pliny the Elder. Driftwood and Green Flash publish which hops they use and I have one of the Pliny the Elder clone recipes that has floated around these forums. Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus and Simcoe are the commonalities here but Green Flash says they use Cascade for floral aroma, which I want to avoid.

With that in mind, here's what I'm thinking based on 33 IBU. To simplify my measurements, I'm going to mix the Amarillo, Centennial and Simcoe together--the figures below are total amounts for all three at each addition.

Columbus: 0.5oz at 20 mins
Amarillo, Centennial & Simcoe: 0.5oz at 15 mins
Amarillo, Centennial & Simcoe: 0.5oz at 10 mins
Amarillo, Centennial & Simcoe: 1oz at 5 mins
Amarillo, Centennial & Simcoe: 2oz at turn off
Columbus: 0.5oz dry hop
Amarillo, Centennial & Simcoe: 2oz dry hop
 
ong said:
I really like Comet for grapefruit as well (more zest than juice).
Click to expand...

Thanks--I haven't tried Comet yet. But I will look for an opportunity. For this brew, I'm limited to what I have on hand as per my original post.
 
Simcoe/Amarillo combo has been a go to for me. Try Alpine Duet if you want to get a feel of the profile.
And if you get the chance, Comet/Citra is a superb combo as well.
 
I've been drinking the recipe in my original post all weekend and I think it could use just a tiny bit more bite. I'm going to move the first Columbus addition back to 30 minutes.
 
I think the Simcoe, Amarillo, cascade combo will get you there with some of the Columbus for bittering and maybe some at flameout. I love Centennial in the dry hop for sure but I often pick up a lot of floral notes when used in the boil. That's just me tho. Keep us posted on how the beer turns out. And thanks for not posting a recipe for another juicy hazy IPA. Jeez!
 
A potential combo for you to look into for what you are going for would be to use Cascade, Centennial, and Chinook. The Chinook gives a good pine hint and is a really solid bittering hop.
 
d3track said:
A potential combo for you to look into for what you are going for would be to use Cascade, Centennial, and Chinook. The Chinook gives a good pine hint and is a really solid bittering hop.
Click to expand...

I'm fan of Sorachi, amarillo, citra and centennial
 
robcj said:
Cool--I'll have to try Ahtanum and Eureka sometime soon.
Click to expand...

Eureka is a extremely aromatic hop. In terms of intensity Eureka is similar to citra. In terms of actual aroma its pure pine, reminiscent of simcoe but less complex. Flavour is a bit like Amarillo.

If I was aiming for what you describe I would use ahtanum in the hop stand and the a big dry hop with Eureka. This would produce a big pine aroma and grapefruit favour. If you want some resin I would add Columbus at about 10mins in the boil.
 
I like Simcoe and Chinook for a West Coast IPA. Complex, with pine and grapefruit, which I like.
 
My last batch was exclusively Cascade and Columbus (mostly dry hopped, 4oz or more) and the beer was basically a glass of grapefruit juice (it was a grapefruit version of Julius, cloudy and juicy).
 
Cascade, Amarillo and Chinook. I know you didn't have Chinook on your list but it's a great hop for a grapefruit/pine profile. Cascade, I've found, shines with grapefruit near the end of a boil and dry hop. Chinook is a great all around hop with some resiny pine aromas and grapefruit flavors.

I recently brewed a Grapefruit Session IPA with Cascade and Chinook and it turned out awesome.

5 gallon batch

0.6oz Chinook FWH
1oz Cascade 10minutes
1oz Cascade 5minutes
1oz Cascade/0.5oz Chinook Flameout

Dry hop with 3oz Cascade and 1oz Chinook.

Fantastic flavor.
 
I recently brewed a ctrus hopped ale that has plenty of grapefruit character. Late hop, whirlpool and dry hop with Azacca, Citra and Rakau, gave it a flavor and aroma that was like biting into a fresh ripe grapefruit, without any harsh bitterness. Simcoe has always been my go to hop for pine.
 
Thanks everyone for all of the input. Based on some your comments, I changed my hop schedule for today's brew. As I mentioned in my original post, I only had Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus and Simcoe. I decided not to use Centennial and I mixed the Amarillo, Cascade and Simcoe together to make my measurements easier.

Columbus: 0.5oz at 20 mins
Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe: 0.5oz at 15 mins
Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe: 0.5oz at 10 mins
Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe: 1oz at 5 mins
Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe: 2oz at turn off
Columbus: 0.5oz dry hop
Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe: 2oz dry hop

I also did a 10 minute whirlpool after turn off.

My base pale ale recipe as outlined in my original post goes from grain to glass in 12 to 14 days (with a ramped fermentation, cold crashing, gelatin fining and burst carbonating) so I'll know soon enough if I achieved the flavor profile I wanted! But even if I don't, I'm certain that with all these great hops this will be a great Northwest-style pale ale regardless. I'll report back!
 
Hard to go wrong with your hop mix there.
For future reference, I haven't seen Polaris mentioned. I get very intense pine/eucalyptus notes from it. Might be worth a try.
 
Mosaic is the new high demand hop for awesome tropical flavors.
The key to a good drinkable APA or IPA is back off on all the bitter hops and keep all your flavor/aroma AFTER flame-out when the wort gets down below 185-180 degrees. Whirlpool if you can with a pump, or stir-man-stir. Let these JUICY mosaic hops steep for a good half-hour to 45". I only add a big Alpha-Acid hop at 30" for all the bittering you want. Also, first wort hopping has some saying it helps keeping boil overs down. Just forget all the 20, 15, 10" additions and go all out after flame-out with the Juice hops!
 
If you want resinous pine and grapefruit, seriously look no further than columbus, cascade, and amarillo. They will give you exactly what your looking for. Columbus is great for bittering, and gives you that heavier dankness with deep pine. Cascade when used liberally packs a bright grapefruit resin punch, and similarly amarillo will round out the grapefruit profile with some nice pine and juicier grapefruit, amarillo also leans a little on the tropical side but IMO would be a nice way to give a little dimension to an already great but simple, tried and true hop profile.
 
Galaxy can definitely offer some sharp alpha acid/hop oil bite even used in the dry hop along with some crisp fruitiness.
 
robcj said:
Cool--I'll have to try Ahtanum and Eureka sometime soon.
Click to expand...

Ahtanum, in my experience, is like a floral version of Cascade. I got no more grapefruit than Cascade, no pine, but lots of floral notes.
I did a 1# brew with it a while back. I used millennium for bitters, and lots of late additions and whirlpool.
Note, that was 2013 crop used in 2016, iirc. I'm sure there is some variation, but I don't see how the floral aspect could dissipate. Maybe if used early in the boil, it would impart more pine.

For pine, simcoe, boiled longer(20-30m), same with centennial. Ctz for bittering and flavor can do it.
Maybe something like
Ctz bitter
Ctz +simcoe at 25
Simcoe+citra+Mosaic at 15
Citra +mosaic at 5
Citra at 0/wp

Possibly sub nugget for simcoe

I've heard ultra late in the boil can be piney
It's cheap too
 
My experience of athtanum was grapefruit only. Lots of folks seem to recommend centennial for grapefruit, Ime I get mostly flowers and spice from it
 
I've noticed huge flavor variance in centennial. Maybe the same for ahtanum.
My plan for it was a spruce IPA, but I ditched that idea once I tasted how floral it came out. There was no pine at all.
But, I did a 9 oz whitlpool.
Could be totally different with a big 15-20m addition
 
bloombrews said:
Mosaic is the new high demand hop for awesome tropical flavors.
The key to a good drinkable APA or IPA is back off on all the bitter hops and keep all your flavor/aroma AFTER flame-out when the wort gets down below 185-180 degrees. Whirlpool if you can with a pump, or stir-man-stir. Let these JUICY mosaic hops steep for a good half-hour to 45". I only add a big Alpha-Acid hop at 30" for all the bittering you want. Also, first wort hopping has some saying it helps keeping boil overs down. Just forget all the 20, 15, 10" additions and go all out after flame-out with the Juice hops!
Click to expand...

I wanted to follow up on your comment because I think that it is terrific advice for brewers who are looking to craft a contemporary juicy APA or IPA. The technique you describe is great for drawing out hop flavour and aroma. And Mosaic is a fantastic hop if you're seeking a highly tropical flavour profile.

To clarify, that wasn't my intent here. My objective was to craft a traditional northwest APA. I was looking more for citrus and pine than citrus and pineapple. I'm happy to say that my recipe achieved that. The only caveat is that I didn't get any dankness at all. I'll be following up on my original post soon because this recipe turned out amazing.
 
I would love to hear how this beer turned out. This is my kind of hoppy beer.
 

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