What All Grain Method Do You Use?

[mcgimpkins]

Eh... All-Grain vs Extract, 3 Vessel vs 2 Vessel vs BIAB vs BIABasket vs PicoBrew vs Grainfather vs etc... I think the important thing is we're all brewing beer.

As to the OP question, I don't think you're going to see a substantial difference in quality regardless of what method you use. It is great that we as homebrewers have the amount of brewing options that we do and are able to build/buy rigs that accommodate our lifestyles.

 

[dstockwell]

I BIAB, and decided that based on what I had on hand before starting to brew, never tried any other method.

 

[Morrey]

Eh... All-Grain vs Extract, 3 Vessel vs 2 Vessel vs BIAB vs BIABasket vs PicoBrew vs Grainfather vs etc... I think the important thing is we're all brewing beer.

As to the OP question, I don't think you're going to see a substantial difference in quality regardless of what method you use. It is great that we as homebrewers have the amount of brewing options that we do and are able to build/buy rigs that accommodate our lifestyles.

Absolutely. It is rewarding as a home brew community to have as many brewers as possible in our camp. The more the merrier IMHO, and it keeps the industry pumping out new products due to the demanding market. Was interested in the division of who was doing which process...just keep in touch with the trending patterns. A good beer is a good beer no matter the process, all agreed.

 

[Upthewazzu]

I use BIAB for 3gal batches, multi-vessel for 5gal batches.

 

[Burquebrewer]

Now lets see is we can find an association between 3 vessel brewers/ BIAB brewers and their political affiliations, or maybe their financial status, or race...religion?

JK. Figured I'd fuel the fire of the ridiculous arguments going on here just for fun!!

 

[Burquebrewer]

What I do find interesting is that the poll indicates more people use on or the other having never even tried both (or so the poll indicates in the wording)... I use both methods regularly and there are significant pros and cons to both. But, there are so many nuances to each system that can vary that even all using BIAB may not be using the same (or even very similar)system. The same can be said for multi-vessel brewing.

I've seen BIAB systems that are done in pots that allow direct fire to keep steady temps. Some use coolers to mash in. Some squeeze the bag, while ive seen others that still use a sparge arm. Yet again, some are electric.

What I can say is that 3 vessel systems are not archaic systems in which old brewers are stuck on. BIAB is not the new "superior" system that we old brewers just cannot accept. I've been brewing for 9 years. I started with extract, moved to BIAB a few years later, moved to a 3 vessel system because I wanted to brew a larger volume and came across a 3 vessel system on CL for $1,500 (which included a 14 gal SS Blichmann Conical and two pumps), then went back to BIAB part-time for the smaller batches and test batches, or for side-by-side experiments in which I split wort.

If anyone thinks their system is better than the next guys and have never brewed on his, they are just talking out their backside.

 

[jan_b19]

BIAB is so much easier and less time consuming. And there is no difference in the quality of my brews, the only downside is that you can't do large brews with it. Unless you have a very big bag

 

[Sailingeric]

I halfass fly sparge. I just lay a tube from my sparge water on a spoon on my grain bed and let slowly drain at about quarter open on my valve. I get good efficiency and I can other chores while it is sparging.b

 

[Totally]

Two tier multi-vessel with a pump for my first year of brewing. Pretty close to getting serious about my ebiab build though, looking forward to it.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I use a 20 gallon cooler mash tun and a 15 gallon boil kettle. It works for me and I see no need to change it up.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

BIAB is so much easier and less time consuming. And there is no difference in the quality of my brews, the only downside is that you can't do large brews with it. Unless you have a very big bag

Why is BIAB faster? You still have to heat strike water. The drain squeeze might take 5 minutes less that a batch sparge. After the mash/lauter, the process is the same. I clean an MLT cooler while the boil is going on. You clean a bag. Neither takes more that ten minutes and is done while other brewing process is going on

I'm not knocking BIAB and I'll probably do that if I start doing small batches, but I don't understand the common claim of less time.

 

[codybaldwin]

I think this might be true for some... but I think there will always be beer geeks who find making it just as fun as drinking it, if not more so.



THIS I think is a huge one.... it's the same thing that is affecting a lot of things... Think about Fraternal organizations like the Moose, or Masons, etc... they've gone down a slippery downhill slide in terms memberships over the last 2 decades.... And I think even Veteran Organizations are suffering in the same way- even though there's always vets, newer generations of people aren't big on joining "clubs" that much these days.

I'm thinking we're becoming a less "active" society? Though I thought that over the last few years we've had a peak in DIY culture.... think Maker's Fairs, etc. I thought everything like this was peaking...

It depends on how to define "active society," right? And surely there's more to life than fraternal organizations?

I'm a relatively new brewer (couple years) and I smetimes felt/feel like there is already so much information on the internet that I don't have much to contribute that hasn't already been said. Also, I brew with my wife and it's more of a fun thing we can do together (like a home date), less of a hang out with bros thing (though on occasion I have done that as well).

Back to the topic, I feel this question of BIAB vs. Multi-Vessel has touched on the zeitgeist of contemporary home brewing (and perhaps a more general social zeitgeist). The influx of newcomers with access to rich instructional information not available, say, ten years ago, may be changing the culture of brewing itself. This may be causing an existential crises (i.e. the cognitive dissonance mentioned earlier) for seasoned home brewers.

Long story short, I think we'll see some new home brewers give up the hobby, some stick with BIAB, but we'll see others start to make the switch to multi-vessel. I think the latter category will be the biggest category overt time because the persistent bunch will want to explore new territory (like myself with decoction and sparging and stuff)--and I imagine the technology will continue to get cheaper over time.

Anyone who has been brewing for like 15 or 20 years (in America): When you started did you imagine it'd be this easy to buy the kind of equipment, yeast strains, and other high quality ingredients we can today?


Another nuance ("nuance before novelty" is a favorite slogan): In Japan, where I live, there aren't really home brew shops (actually it's technically illegal to home brew, but it's unenforced). However, there are two main websites where you can order ingredients. Both of them only really offer BIAB kits for beginner AG brewers. No mash-tun options. I wonder if it's as difficult in other (particularly Asian and non-"western") countries to brew AG as it is here. Whether that be because of import issues or language issues or whatever.

 

[kh54s10]

I set up first with a 3 tier gravity 3 vessel system. I have done some small batch BIAB. Since I have not set up a good system for dealing with the BIAB bag of hot sticky grain I end up with a mess. If I worked a good rig for it, maybe. But the 3 vessel is so easy and from my experience it is just as fast as BIAB.

If I were to switch to 5 gallon BIAB (the same as I brew on my 3 tier) I would want to go electric.

 

[Burquebrewer]

IMO, the only reason why my BIAB brews take less time is because I am brewing a smaller batch. It takes less time to heat 7 gallons of sparge water vs 4 gallons. It takes longer to bring 13 gallons to a boil than it does 6 gallons, etc... I don't feel the need to deep clean my HLT or my brew kettle, that only leaves mash tun clean-up, running PBW through all the pumps, hot-side hoses, and my plate chiller... followed by a wipe down or PBW soak of everything else. Same as a BIAB clean-up...

I found I spend about one hour more on a 3 vessel brew than a BIAB. But I personally am not looking to shave an hour off of my brew time. I enjoy the process. I've also found that if I am too concerned with shortening my brew day, I usually screw something up! But then again, I am in a fortunate position to be in what I call "early retirement" and have an abundance of free time to brew and build all of my own gadgets.

I will agree that BIAB is an easier brew day in the sense that I don't have to lift as many heavy pieces of equipment and do not need a step stool to see inside of my MT or BK...

 

[mcgimpkins]

Another nuance ("nuance before novelty" is a favorite slogan): In Japan, where I live, there aren't really home brew shops (actually it's technically illegal to home brew, but it's unenforced). However, there are two main websites where you can order ingredients. Both of them only really offer BIAB kits for beginner AG brewers. No mash-tun options. I wonder if it's as difficult in other (particularly Asian and non-"western") countries to brew AG as it is here. Whether that be because of import issues or language issues or whatever.

This is kind of interesting cultural difference. BIAB originated in Australia, so I wonder if it has more influence in East Asia over the 3 vessel which seems to be more German/European in nature.

 

[codybaldwin]

This is kind of interesting cultural difference. BIAB originated in Australia, so I wonder if it has more influence in East Asia over the 3 vessel which seems to be more German/European in nature.

DEFINITELY. I feel the last 10-15 years Australia has been increasingly influential on Japan.

In regards to beer, this is very apparent as almost all of the imported yeasts, extracts, and equipment are sourced from Australia.

I think the first yeast I used was a "Brew Cellar" yeast which I did some searching to discover was the same thing as Fermentis US-05. That home brew shop sells Fermentis now too, though--and I found another shop that's recently started importing liquid White Labs and Wyeast now (though they are often almost expired or already expired).

 

[jcav]

I love my three vessel electric herms system. I really enjoy the process of making beer and my system is a joy to use. Temp control is a breeze on it and the beer is fantastic!

John

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

BIAB 10 gallon brews, electric system, in a 20 gallon pot from the start.

The lack of equipment, minimal brew/storage space and cleanup is what turned me on to it.

It really is amazingly simple...one pot....that's it. Stick it in a spare bedroom and bring it out on brew day.

 

[chickypad]

I didn't vote because I do both but my choice of one over the other is purely based on batch size. For 2-3 gal batches I prefer BIAB, for 10-15 gal batches I like my 3 vessel system with HERMS and pumps.

 

[Morrey]

Anyone who has been brewing for like 15 or 20 years (in America): When you started did you imagine it'd be this easy to buy the kind of equipment, yeast strains, and other high quality ingredients we can today?

I began the brewing hobby in the 80's where I bought a huge can of pre-hopped liquid malt extract and a dry sachet of yeast. Internet was just really starting up, so learning or ordering supplies online was not yet available. I'd buy my ingredients from a general store in which the owner had setup a small section for wine making supplies and had a token amount of beer items alongside. I'm sure there were places with a broader selection of items, but I was largely unaware of much else being available. I'd like to add that my experiences with this extract based LME was less than appealing and I all but decided this was not a good hobby for me.

Today in comparison, there are TONS of brewing products and ingredients that put everything we need at our fingertips. Information is available 24/7 and you don't have to special order a book to read on the subject. There are literally dozens of yeast strains in dry and liquid, plus every kind of malt and adjunct you can dream of in most large retail operations. If a brewer cant find what they are looking for in 2017, they are not trying very hard.

In answer to your question, I could not possibly imagine back in 1980 that I'd see available what I am seeing today. The quality is high now and the prices are somewhat reasonable in comparison to yesteryear. If I brewed today the quality of beer that I made in 1980 (I partially blame crappy ingredients as well as me), I'd have long stopped home brewing. We have it pretty good now I'd say, and our beers rival or surpass the quality of commercial products.

 

[bleme]

I brew 5 gallon batches BIAB at home. Most of my brewing friends have larger multi-vessel systems. I prefer to brew with them and split the batch but I don't think that has anything to do with the system. I can't tell any difference is quality of the end product.

My wife says she prefers my beer to most of the homebrew brought to club meetings, but I think that has more to do with recipe choice. There is one other brewer in the club who consistently makes beer that she likes. He is a chemistry teacher and is the most meticulous about his methods of anyone I have brewed with. He also dumps more beer than most of the other brewers in the club make.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Long story short, I think we'll see some new home brewers give up the hobby, some stick with BIAB, but we'll see others start to make the switch to multi-vessel. I think the latter category will be the biggest category overt time because the persistent bunch will want to explore new territory (like myself with decoction and sparging and stuff)--and I imagine the technology will continue to get cheaper over time.



Anyone who has been brewing for like 15 or 20 years (in America): When you started did you imagine it'd be this easy to buy the kind of equipment, yeast strains, and other high quality ingredients we can today?

.

I think you would be surprised how many BIAB brewers are converted long time 3v brewers.

Like Morrey, I started brewing in the mid eighties, we had Charlie's book and a three page paper catalog from Alternative Beverage we would phone orders to.

All grain brewing seemed like rocket science. Yeast selection was ale or lager....

 

[brewswithshoes]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. Here is a follow up question i'd like to pose.... How many electric vs. gas brewers? To me this was the real big change in brewing. Something about moving to electric just seemed to make things easier for me. Not sure if that was because i could go back indoors (hot in Florida), or if it was i felt i got better control of temps with electric.

I commented earlier on my preference of 3V/BIAB, but the real change that i would never do again is gas. Most folks i talk to with electric systems pretty much same the same thing.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think you would be surprised how many BIAB brewers are converted long time 3v brewers.

Like Morrey, I started brewing in the mid eighties, we had Charlie's book and a three page paper catalog from Alternative Beverage we would phone orders to.

All grain brewing seemed like rocket science. Yeast selection was ale or lager....

Yep. I first brewed extract in the early 90's. I was lucky as there was a homebrew store nearby that was not much bigger than my kitchen. I had the "The Joy..." and the paper pamphlet the HBS guy wrote periodically. The beer was not bad at all, but the resources were slim to say the least. Hell, craft beer was hard to come by. I was bringing Boulevard home from KC because they didn't bottle.

I would not have dreamed of all grain brewing then. Now extract brewing is unsatisfying...not because the beer is bad, I just enjoy the process of all grain and miss it with extract brewing (which I do occasionally with one of my friends). I look forward to brew days like a high school girl looks forward to prom. Many seem concerned with simplifying the process or choosing a method that's faster or easier. I want the whole monty. I have zero interest in making things easier...I like the brewing process I have. It's a social event with my friends and a time to relish in the art and science of brewing beer.

 

[jparrette]

There are lots of ways to make all-grain wort. They all work great. Extract works great too. It's all in the ferment.

 

[doug293cz]

...

THIS I think is a huge one.... it's the same thing that is affecting a lot of things... Think about Fraternal organizations like the Moose, or Masons, etc... they've gone down a slippery downhill slide in terms memberships over the last 2 decades.... And I think even Veteran Organizations are suffering in the same way- even though there's always vets, newer generations of people aren't big on joining "clubs" that much these days.

I'm thinking we're becoming a less "active" society? Though I thought that over the last few years we've had a peak in DIY culture.... think Maker's Fairs, etc. I thought everything like this was peaking...

OT warning: OT coming

I can't let this go without adding a comment. Why are people less involved today? My view is that in times past, there were simply fewer things competing for people's time....and there are more ways to connect to people than there used to be.

Take this forum as an example. I get to have discussions with other like-minded people here that would be impossible without the internet. There just aren't very many people locally doing this beermaking thing, to say nothing of doing it at the level I am doing it. The only place to find people, knowledgeable and imaginative people, is on the web.

Same goes with things like Facebook and other social media platforms; in some ways, they replace the need/desire for face-to-face interaction. People used to connect with each other at gatherings, and that was largely the only way they could easily connect. Now, I'm engaging in conversations with people across the globe, and have less need to interact in face-to-face environments.

The same thing goes for entertainment. At a time 125 years ago, how could you hear good music and song? It had to be played and sung live. What about drama? Had to be done live. Much of what people did for entertainment required personal interaction and connections at gatherings often held explicitly for the purpose of entertainment. Not any more.

We are no longer geographically limited in our associations. My local homebrew club isn't local; it meets 25 miles down the road in Dubuque. I have one local brewing friend; the rest are online or in Dubuque. Most brewers in that LHBC are extract brewers; few can engage me in a conversation about all-grain, to say nothing of the effect of PH on finished beer flavor (a discussion I'm having with Morrey via email right now). They don't read HBT, don't read Brulosophy and the exbeeriments, don't buy the books I do. The only place I can find people to engage on these topics is HERE.

Whereas once people might be limited to joining just a few local organizations, now the menu has expanded drastically. It's one reason why, locally, our community theatre struggles. Back in the day, it's what there was. Now, it has to compete with Netflix, cable TV, Dish, etc. And it can't do it.

It isn't so much that people are less active, I don't think, as they are less active locally. But often still, they are active.

My 2 cents.

I was thinking of a similar response, but I think you nailed it better than I would have. Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.

Brew on

 

[jan_b19]

Why is BIAB faster? You still have to heat strike water. The drain squeeze might take 5 minutes less that a batch sparge. After the mash/lauter, the process is the same. I clean an MLT cooler while the boil is going on. You clean a bag. Neither takes more that ten minutes and is done while other brewing process is going on

I'm not knocking BIAB and I'll probably do that if I start doing small batches, but I don't understand the common claim of less time.

Well for me it feels faster, don't know why it's just a feeling

 

[Morrey]

Well for me it feels faster, don't know why it's just a feeling

I agree, for me it feels faster as well. Sometimes I don't choose to go faster, sometimes I want to enjoy the "zen" place I feel while brewing, other times I may want to get a batch finished so I can do other things. I may do a step mash while doing BIAB, other times I use a Wilserbag in a mash tun....I am crossing the lines of all systems I suppose.

Mongoose33 and I had a multi-email conversation regarding the advantages/disadvantages of 3V compared to BIAB. He and I do both, and we switch back and forth from time to time, so the comparison gives both of us a real feel for pros and cons of both systems. In my case, I got a fair amount of $$$ tied up in insulated mash tuns, HERMS system items, screens, bottoms, valves, pumps....and on. I have all of this since this was a popular way to go when I went AG.

And I say this, not to prove I am qualified to "weigh-in" properly, but I personally can say this is what I would choose for my process if we brewed a beer this weekend. I read a post that said something like....."if you have never tried the approach you are discussing, its similar to a virgin offering sex advice". I thought this both funny while making a good point.

I like both systems and don't really want to choose one over the other...so I don't. I love any kind of brewing. I apologize for starting a tug of war, and find it great we can share in the love of brewing regardless of the method we choose.

 

[permo]

I use a 100 quart igloo cooler to mash and batch sparge. 15-18 gallon batches. Works awesome. I can mash 75+ pounds of grain.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I agree, for me it feels faster as well. Sometimes I don't choose to go faster, sometimes I want to enjoy the "zen" place I feel while brewing, other times I may want to get a batch finished so I can do other things. I may do a step mash while doing BIAB, other times I use a Wilserbag in a mash tun....I am crossing the lines of all systems I suppose.

Mongoose33 and I had a multi-email conversation regarding the advantages/disadvantages of 3V compared to BIAB. He and I do both, and we switch back and forth from time to time, so the comparison gives both of us a real feel for pros and cons of both systems. In my case, I got a fair amount of $$$ tied up in insulated mash tuns, HERMS system items, screens, bottoms, valves, pumps....and on. I have all of this since this was a popular way to go when I went AG.

And I say this, not to prove I am qualified to "weigh-in" properly, but I personally can say this is what I would choose for my process if we brewed a beer this weekend. I read a post that said something like....."if you have never tried the approach you are discussing, its similar to a virgin offering sex advice". I thought this both funny while making a good point.

I like both systems and don't really want to choose one over the other...so I don't. I love any kind of brewing. I apologize for starting a tug of war, and find it great we can share in the love of brewing regardless of the method we choose.

I can appreciate the experience you have. I've watched BIAB, but not done it myself. I'm honestly curious where the time savings come from. I'm no expert on either since I'm relatively new to all grain, but the time consuming elements for me are:

Heat Strike water
Mash
Boil


You could say heat sparge water, but I do that while the mash is happening, so when the mash is done, I'm adding sparge water within 10 minutes and full onto the boil process in 15-20 minutes tops.

I clean my MLT after the hot break (which only takes about 10 minutes), so there's no lost time there.

There is some extra time setting up and tearing down for the HLT and MLT...that's probably 10 minutes, but, again, I set up while heating strike water and tear down while boiling. When I'm done boiling, I have a kettle, pump, hoses, IC, whirlpool arm and some small stuff (like refractometer) to clean and put away. All of that would be there if I did BIAB.

Setup and tear down will largely go away when I build my rolling brew stand.

I guess I just don't know the respective processes well enough to identify where the savings comes from.

I do see BIAB as a great option for someone just starting out who is on a tight budget or has storage concerns. The kettle is arguably more expensive, but you don't need to spend $ on an MLT or HLT. I was lucky that I got a whole brew setup used pretty cheap. I already had a 5 gal beverage cooler to use as an HLT, everything else came with the stuff I bought. You can build a cooler MLT for about $50-$60 though ($25 for a cooler, $15-30 for a valve/bulkhead adapter and $10 for a bazooka screen).

 

[Morrey]

I can appreciate the experience you have. I've watched BIAB, but not done it myself. I'm honestly curious where the time savings come from. I'm no expert on either since I'm relatively new to all grain, but the time consuming elements for me are:

Heat Strike water
Mash
Boil


You could say heat sparge water, but I do that while the mash is happening, so when the mash is done, I'm adding sparge water within 10 minutes and full onto the boil process in 15-20 minutes tops.

I clean my MLT after the hot break (which only takes about 10 minutes), so there's no lost time there.

There is some extra time setting up and tearing down for the HLT and MLT...that's probably 10 minutes, but, again, I set up while heating strike water and tear down while boiling. When I'm done boiling, I have a kettle, pump, hoses, IC, whirlpool arm and some small stuff (like refractometer) to clean and put away. All of that would be there if I did BIAB.

Setup and tear down will largely go away when I build my rolling brew stand.

I guess I just don't know the respective processes well enough to identify where the savings comes from.

I do see BIAB as a great option for someone just starting out who is on a tight budget or has storage concerns. The kettle is arguably more expensive, but you don't need to spend $ on an MLT or HLT. I was lucky that I got a whole brew setup used pretty cheap. I already had a 5 gal beverage cooler to use as an HLT, everything else came with the stuff I bought. You can build a cooler MLT for about $50-$60 though ($25 for a cooler, $15-30 for a valve/bulkhead adapter and $10 for a bazooka screen).

Understand your question. I have tracked closely the time it takes me start to finish my average BIAB. Average is one that I don't use my whirlpool pump or do any step mashing procedures. This includes a 60 minute mash and a 60 minute boil.

The day before brew day I weigh out my chemistry, grains and hops, and have all my gear organized. But I do this for any process I use.

With BIAB, no extra steps as mentioned, takes me 3 hours and 15 minutes and I am in the house ready for any daily activities the family chooses.

Don't know the length of your process, but this should give you a time comparison. Very possibly the allure of BIAB to some is that there may be "less moving parts'?

 

[mongoose33]

Understand your question. I have tracked closely the time it takes me start to finish my average BIAB. Average is one that I don't use my whirlpool pump or do any step mashing procedures. This includes a 60 minute mash and a 60 minute boil.

The day before brew day I weigh out my chemistry, grains and hops, and have all my gear organized. But I do this for any process I use.

With BIAB, no extra steps as mentioned, takes me 3 hours and 15 minutes and I am in the house ready for any daily activities the family chooses.

Don't know the length of your process, but this should give you a time comparison. Very possibly the allure of BIAB to some is that there may be "less moving parts'?

BIAB feels more relaxed, at least for me.

The determining factors now for reducing time are length of time it takes to bring the strike water to temp, and bring the wort to a boil.

I have the Blichmann Hellfire burner, and it's fast, but it's also a bit of a waster of propane. A lot of heat, when it's turned up, escapes to the sides. I'm cogitating on the idea of a metal sleeve that would go partway up the side of the kettle to keep that wasted heat in contact w/ the kettle for a longer time.

I'm also stewing over the idea of adding an immersion heater to help things along. I brew in my garage and I will not let the Blichmann go without attending to it. Looking for a reasonably-priced 110V immersion heater to suspend in the kettle as I also heat it with the Blichmann. I can't at this time go all-electric, so this is the best I can think of.

I have this dream of starting a brew day at 8:00am and being done at 11:00am. I'd crush grain, set up kettle and water the night before, get everything ready to go--then start the immersion heater at maybe 7:30am and let it go w/o supervision.

Then at 8:00 I'd crank up the Hellfire, and I'd guess I could have the strike water at 160 degrees by 8:15am. Dough-in, finished with that by 8:30am, mash done at 9:30am, then again, add that immersion heater to help the Blichmann get the kettle to a boil. Figure that's another 15 minutes to take the wort from 150 degrees to boiling, so 9:45am.

An hour boil, and it's 10:45am. Chiliing, transferring to fermenter, cleaning and putting away--at least another 30 minutes.

I just don't see how I can get this down to 3 hours.

 

[Morrey]

BIAB feels more relaxed, at least for me.

The determining factors now for reducing time are length of time it takes to bring the strike water to temp, and bring the wort to a boil.

I have the Blichmann Hellfire burner, and it's fast, but it's also a bit of a waster of propane. A lot of heat, when it's turned up, escapes to the sides. I'm cogitating on the idea of a metal sleeve that would go partway up the side of the kettle to keep that wasted heat in contact w/ the kettle for a longer time.

I'm also stewing over the idea of adding an immersion heater to help things along. I brew in my garage and I will not let the Blichmann go without attending to it. Looking for a reasonably-priced 110V immersion heater to suspend in the kettle as I also heat it with the Blichmann. I can't at this time go all-electric, so this is the best I can think of.

I have this dream of starting a brew day at 8:00am and being done at 11:00am. I'd crush grain, set up kettle and water the night before, get everything ready to go--then start the immersion heater at maybe 7:30am and let it go w/o supervision.

Then at 8:00 I'd crank up the Hellfire, and I'd guess I could have the strike water at 160 degrees by 8:15am. Dough-in, finished with that by 8:30am, mash done at 9:30am, then again, add that immersion heater to help the Blichmann get the kettle to a boil. Figure that's another 15 minutes to take the wort from 150 degrees to boiling, so 9:45am.

An hour boil, and it's 10:45am. Chiliing, transferring to fermenter, cleaning and putting away--at least another 30 minutes.

I just don't see how I can get this down to 3 hours.

Shaving time off 3:15 is gonna be tough. I have several key factors working in my favor for time savings:

Hellfire Burner...fast

Source water 75-80F means quick time to mash temp

JaDed Hydra Chiller....fast

Arbor Fab Basket w/Press Plate...fast

As you said, I don't think it realistic to expect many time cuts here.

 

[balrog]

For me, BIAB. It's not ideal, but my situation is that I must carry everything from "put away" in the basement to the kitchen/garage to brew/keg/bottle. The burner/kettle stay in garage, as would a 3v, but it's fewer things for me, setup/cleanup. I do only make 5G batches, but going steeping grains with extract to BIAB all grain was pretty easy step. I'm sure 3v would have been also, but for me, it was easier to think about going to BIAB.

One thing that just came up in conversation a couple weeks ago with, I think Homercidal the mod when he came to visit me, was that Homebrewing peaked a few years back, and we're actually on the "downside" of that curve.... Don't know if it's true or not, but it does seem like even this place is a lot less active than it was 6-7 years ago.
...
I wonder what the NEXT leap in the hobby will be... and if THAT will then even usuarp BIAB? Probably... Just like cellphones replaced home phones, beepers and payphones, something else ever simpler will shift the hobby to some other method.

I wonder if it's going to involve sous-vide immersion circulators since they're coming down in prices and some people have begun to use them to mash with....

It's very strange to see less involvement, "IRL", than online with all things these days. We may be more connected, but we sure as heck have less face to face that when I was growing up.

I can't wait to see what's next, and I think the E-bewing and AIOne systems, and Sous vide things are all very interesting to watch.

This is a huge selling point in getting new brewers into the game. With the hectic lifestyle that many folks have, the most simple process is potentially more attractive.

And certainly a new brewer would not be accustomed to brewing the old way, so these new folks are prime candidates to try BIAB.

For selfish reasons I'd hate to think our home brewer base is shrinking. Possibly means more LHBS will close and make driving distances for supplies even greater. Also harder to find local brewers to meet and brew together. Mail order suppliers reap the rewards I suppose.

The LHBS shrinking is suffering the same fate as many B&M places due in no small part to the prevalence of online shopping I am sure.

Now lets see is we can find an association between 3 vessel brewers/ BIAB brewers and their political affiliations, or maybe their financial status, or race...religion?

JK. Figured I'd fuel the fire of the ridiculous arguments going on here just for fun!!

GAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[TorMag]

Speeding the brew day, I guess I kind of get it. I BIAB but enjoy the process as much as the end results. I guess if you had young kids and needed the family time then speed brewing could be a thing. As others stated above, I don't think BIAB is any faster then 3v. The timed steps are the same.

 

[Denny]

Being that BIAB has really made a splash in the last few years, just seeing what method most brewers are using these days.

I use multi-vessel only
I use BIAB only
I have used multi-vessel but prefer BIAB
I have used BIAB but prefer multi-vessel.

How about "whatever suits my mood and needs"? I have 3 cooler mashtuns, I do BIAB, I have a Zymatic, a Pico and a Grainfather. According to a Brulosophy survey, multi vessel batch sparging is the most popular method.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Understand your question. I have tracked closely the time it takes me start to finish my average BIAB. Average is one that I don't use my whirlpool pump or do any step mashing procedures. This includes a 60 minute mash and a 60 minute boil.

The day before brew day I weigh out my chemistry, grains and hops, and have all my gear organized. But I do this for any process I use.

With BIAB, no extra steps as mentioned, takes me 3 hours and 15 minutes and I am in the house ready for any daily activities the family chooses.

Don't know the length of your process, but this should give you a time comparison. Very possibly the allure of BIAB to some is that there may be "less moving parts'?

I'm quite a bit longer than that, but it's because my burner is an el cheapo turkey fryer burner. It takes 45-60 minutes to bring strike water to temp and 45 minutes to get a boil after sparge is complete. It's so slow I start my sparge water heating as soon as I get my 60 minute mash settled in.

I have a new bayou classic 200 btu burner on my wish list. I'm just holding off buying it in case my wife gets it for me for father's day. I'm guessing it'll either be that or a vacuum sealer for leftover hops.

I also have a very inefficient immersion chiller that's about 6 or 7 loops (came with my used equipment initial purchase). It takes me 25 minutes or longer to chill to pitching temps (and that's with cool water coming out of the chiller). A Hydra is on my list, but lower priority.

I mostly brew IPA's, so I have a fair amount of post boil hop additions both at flameout and at 170 degrees that I whirlpool for set periods of time.

There's no way I could brew in 3 hours 15, but I don't think it's the process that is the issue.

 

[bleme]

3:15 would be awesome! I'm using a natural gas stovetop so it takes forever to get to temperatures. I enjoy brewing and the process but with work, the kids soccer and dance, church and honey-do's, I have a hard time finding an uninterrupted 5.5hr block to do a brew day. My last brew day, I had to leave for 4 hours during my mash because that was the only way it was getting done.

 

[doug293cz]

How about "whatever suits my mood and needs"? I have 3 cooler mashtuns, I do BIAB, I have a Zymatic, a Pico and a Grainfather. According to a Brulosophy survey, multi vessel batch sparging is the most popular method.

Clearly you have way too many toys! How do you find time to play with them all? (Don't mind me, it's just the envy rearing its ugly head )

Brew on

 

[Denny]

Clearly you have way too many toys! How do you find time to play with them all? (Don't mind me, it's just the envy rearing its ugly head )

Brew on

Actually, I don't have enough time to play with them! I thought after I retired I'd have plenty of time to brew, bit between writing books (another one in progress), producing 2 podcasts and traveling to do seminars, I actually brew less now!