I started out brewing kits, then adulterated kits, then extract based recipes with my own hops and steeping grains, then BIAB. I liked a lot of things about BIAB and can see why it has so many fans and would recommend it to anybody starting out, but found that it didn't really allow the level of control and thus consistency I desired. My recipes were unique to my system and practices and as such didn't transfer very well. I disliked having to have a kettle large enough to contain the grain as well as the entire pre boil volume which I couldn't use at full capacity and would either bring my gravity up with extract while topping up or often heat some more water in a smaller saucepan to perform first a dunk sparge then subsequent 'hanging bag drip launter'. These methods were chaotic and my temperature all over the place, the grain bag huge and heavy at this point when wanting to make higher gravity beer. I couldn't really say the process was repeatable by anybody except myself. When building a new system I went for the classic shiny stainless HLT, mash/launter tun, kettle 3 vessel and while it takes up more room and is a bit more involved, it is very easy to use and so much more consistent. I can also sparge until the kettle is full, I've got the capacity to use plenty of grain, the system tops out around an OG of 68 at 100% capacity, OG of 98 at 75% capacity all grain, no extract, no sugar.
What All Grain Method Do You Use?
- Thread starter Morrey
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Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
1. Infusion step mash with batch sparge
2. No-Sparge
3. No-sparge Infusion step mash (usually a hochKurz mash profile with the final mashout infusion bringing me up to full no-sparge volume)
Been using #1 since I started all-grain.
Occasionally do #2 for some simple ales.
Lately #3 has been my primary method because it works well for Low Oxygen brewing when you need a good mash profile but can't direct-heat your mash tun.
2. No-Sparge
3. No-sparge Infusion step mash (usually a hochKurz mash profile with the final mashout infusion bringing me up to full no-sparge volume)
Been using #1 since I started all-grain.
Occasionally do #2 for some simple ales.
Lately #3 has been my primary method because it works well for Low Oxygen brewing when you need a good mash profile but can't direct-heat your mash tun.
Like others, I have multiple systems. I have a single tier, three vessel, natural gas system that I can do 10+ gallons on. I can convert that to an electric, BIABasket system fairly easily to use indoors when it is cold and nasty, and I have a Zymatic I can use for small batches and recipe development. By FAR the Zymatic is the easiest brew day for a lot of reasons. With the timer feature, I can set it to start brewing while I am at work, come home in time to whirlpool or chill, easy spray and clean, pitch and done. When I need to brew a big beer or a lot of beer, I use the gas or electric system depending on my mood and the weather. The poll doesn't quite cover those of us that use multiple systems or use unique systems like the Z, though I *guess* you could put that in a BIABox category?
normonster
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I BIAB and 3V, both, and enjoy both equally.
That option was missing!! IMO the best answer to this age old question is that having both methods at your disposal is the way to go.
That option was missing!! IMO the best answer to this age old question is that having both methods at your disposal is the way to go.
Burquebrewer
Well-Known Member
Ahhh! The life of stardom!
I E-BIAB with recirculation now, but would still be 3V in the kitchen if I hadn't been kicked out.
I like having a hobby where I can keep buying gear and DIY'ing my process. I also like having my buddies say this beer is fantastic, even if I don't think it's all that great.
I like having a hobby where I can keep buying gear and DIY'ing my process. I also like having my buddies say this beer is fantastic, even if I don't think it's all that great.
BOT... I use an old big blue extract barrel as my mash tun. A 12" false bottom fits perfectly over a bulkhead with a bazooka fitted into it. Holds heat great with one of those reflective windshield heat reflectors bungeed around it. My setup is pretty basic and I make some great beers with it. To each their own. I tried BIAB last year, I would need a good pulley system to do it right. I can mash 10 gallon batches with my setup. In the end, if you are winding up with an end product that you enjoy and are happy with, why insist that one way to brew (be it extract, partial mash, BIAB, three tier, or what have you) is THE way? We're all here to make beer, right? We will all gravitate to what works best for our situation, and means. I would adore to have a full electric system, but I would miss the process I have with the system I have now, primitive as it may seem to others. It's the end result that matters, not how you get there. My two cents.
I cant really answer you poll. While I have only done single vessel BIAB so far (10 batches) I am in the process of building my system to be a multi vessel BIAB system to be able to brew back to back batches continuously throughout the day. I love brewing but it seems to take up the whole day so I figure why not set up to brew 20-40 gallons in that day.
I think you need to add a hybrid option to your poll.
I think you need to add a hybrid option to your poll.
OP
OP
Morrey
Well-Known Member
I'm currently doing BIAB, using a paint strainer bag with separate mash kettle, boil kettle, and HLT. HLT is a 5500W electric 5 gallon bucket.
Next step is getting a nicer bag, probably from Wilser, that will fit my boil kettle (it's too big for a standard paint bag.) I'd like to eliminate the sparge step and maybe my need for buying RO water.
Next step is getting a nicer bag, probably from Wilser, that will fit my boil kettle (it's too big for a standard paint bag.) I'd like to eliminate the sparge step and maybe my need for buying RO water.
OP
OP
Morrey
Well-Known Member
Same here, TorMag. Seems like most of what we see in the home brew community appears to me to be 5.5G based batches to fit into a 5G corny keg or equivalent bottles. On the other hand, it is not much difference in effort to do 10G vs 5G. Makes sense in a way to split into two fermenters, two kegs etc even if you are somewhat setup for 5G batches.
I have room in my kettle for 10 gallons, I did one batch, just to see if my equipment could handle it. Gave 5 gallons to a buddy brewer who paid for half the ingredients. It's really no more effort. I would have to buy some more kegs. Oh well.
Back to this thread and saw this crap!!!
Fact, there is less to clean. Faster?? Maybe by a minute or two. In my case it takes longer!!!! I rinse out my mash tun in 2 minutes. It takes longer than that to get the grain out of my bag. Granted I am using paint strainer bags rather than a purpose built BIAB bag. If you are mashing for an hour then boiling for an hour the only time saving is cleaning and as I said, I can clean my mash tun FASTER!!!
" The only people who only multi vessel these days are the people who learned to homebrew before biab was popular and haven't bothered to update their practices."
Speak for yourself. I have done both and find 3 vessel easier!!! Granted I set it up first but I don't need a hoist to get a heavy, hot, sticky, potentially messy bag out of my boil kettle.....
Or it may not....
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To be a little selfish, I am glad you brew less now. That gives you more time to advise us less experienced folks. Reading your posts here has greatly reduced the time of my learning curve. One of my early decisions was made about doing batch sparging after looking at your website on it, along with other youtube videos.
I've started with a very basic biab, and will change over to an electric biab system later this year.
Space wise I can't really afford to move a 3-vessel system around all the time, storage is just not big enough where i can brew and don't feel like dragging stuff several flights of stairs every time.
For bigger batches, biab will fast become hard to handle for a single person and that might limit the appeal.
Here in Finland homebrewing is growing very fast, and evolved from prehopped extract/sugar water to full on all-grain in the last 5 or so years.
When I started it was only one small shop that sold any brewing ingredients over the net for allgrain, nowadays there are at least 6 I know of, likely more.
Space wise I can't really afford to move a 3-vessel system around all the time, storage is just not big enough where i can brew and don't feel like dragging stuff several flights of stairs every time.
For bigger batches, biab will fast become hard to handle for a single person and that might limit the appeal.
Here in Finland homebrewing is growing very fast, and evolved from prehopped extract/sugar water to full on all-grain in the last 5 or so years.
When I started it was only one small shop that sold any brewing ingredients over the net for allgrain, nowadays there are at least 6 I know of, likely more.
OP
OP
Morrey
Well-Known Member
Of course. For all of those who are attracted to state of the art (really cool) controller based systems, there are those who prefer completely manual systems that need manual tending each step of the way. I admire the electronic systems, but I always remember there are many individual preferences besides mine out there.
On a totally off topic note, Denny, I brewed a 2.8% abv from one of your guests, James Spencer. It is a wheat/rye brew with Nelson Sauvin. In fermenter now...cant wait to try it. Thank you for all you continue to do prompting the home brew craft!
Home-Brewery design isn't a destination its a journey. I expect my system to evolve over time and maybe a bag is in my future maybe not. Hardly think I am sitting on my hands stuck in the old ways. And yes once upon a time I did sparge with a Pap-o-Zap lol.
I started brewing again seriously about 4 years ago and considered BIAB at the time. Bought a 10 gallon pot and was considering getting a bag for it but then saw a great deal on a coleman cooler (77qt) and realized a cooler mash tun with a bazooka tube and batch sparging was probably similar financial committment to BIAB and would let me do the occasional 10 gallon batch.
Then I started brewing with a friend who had a 15 gallon pot and all of a sudden I had a 3 vessel system to work with. Got that dialed in and was very happy indeed.
Then another friend wanted to get into welding. So we decided to build a brew stand. Ended up building a cooler MLT with a false bottom and have had a lot of fun with that. Spent at least 100 hours researching temperature control techniques (thanks Brulosophy for suggesting that may not even be necessary) and decided to go with direct fire recirculating mash. Was a blast figuring out how to control household natural gas with PID controlled solenoid valve and still makes be smile every brew session when that burner kicks in.
I have played with both fly- and batch-sparging on the system...works equally well for both. In the end prefer fly sparging as it is more hands off process and the time savings for batch sparging is minimal given the time it takes me to get 14 gallons of runnings to a boil.
I do not believe fly sparging makes better beer than batch sparging or BIAB but it suits me and I enjoy it. Differences in efficiencies are modest and not a justification at a homebrew scale to consider one way over the other.
One other thing I remember about BIAB when I was considering that path was concern about vessel size and having the ability to do both 5 gallon and 10 gallon batches in same equipment. (not that I ever really did but I was in fact concerned about it at the time) If I recall you probably need a 20 gallon kettle to do a 10 gallon BIAB which I thought would be poor choice for boiling a 5 gallon batch. This line of thinking contributed to the path I took.
Now of course that I am always brewing 10 gallon batches (well 11 to the fermentor) collecting about 14.5 gallons of wort into my BK I do wish I had purchased a 20 gallon kettle somewhere along the way. But the road goes on and there are some pretty nice kettles out there to research.
I started brewing again seriously about 4 years ago and considered BIAB at the time. Bought a 10 gallon pot and was considering getting a bag for it but then saw a great deal on a coleman cooler (77qt) and realized a cooler mash tun with a bazooka tube and batch sparging was probably similar financial committment to BIAB and would let me do the occasional 10 gallon batch.
Then I started brewing with a friend who had a 15 gallon pot and all of a sudden I had a 3 vessel system to work with. Got that dialed in and was very happy indeed.
Then another friend wanted to get into welding. So we decided to build a brew stand. Ended up building a cooler MLT with a false bottom and have had a lot of fun with that. Spent at least 100 hours researching temperature control techniques (thanks Brulosophy for suggesting that may not even be necessary) and decided to go with direct fire recirculating mash. Was a blast figuring out how to control household natural gas with PID controlled solenoid valve and still makes be smile every brew session when that burner kicks in.
I have played with both fly- and batch-sparging on the system...works equally well for both. In the end prefer fly sparging as it is more hands off process and the time savings for batch sparging is minimal given the time it takes me to get 14 gallons of runnings to a boil.
I do not believe fly sparging makes better beer than batch sparging or BIAB but it suits me and I enjoy it. Differences in efficiencies are modest and not a justification at a homebrew scale to consider one way over the other.
One other thing I remember about BIAB when I was considering that path was concern about vessel size and having the ability to do both 5 gallon and 10 gallon batches in same equipment. (not that I ever really did but I was in fact concerned about it at the time) If I recall you probably need a 20 gallon kettle to do a 10 gallon BIAB which I thought would be poor choice for boiling a 5 gallon batch. This line of thinking contributed to the path I took.
Now of course that I am always brewing 10 gallon batches (well 11 to the fermentor) collecting about 14.5 gallons of wort into my BK I do wish I had purchased a 20 gallon kettle somewhere along the way. But the road goes on and there are some pretty nice kettles out there to research.
Well, I have had a few systems over the years. Currently I have a 3 vessel electric capable of 12 gallon batches, a recirculating ebiab, capable of 17 gallons, and finally a grainfather, which I use the most. Need to sell some stuff.
BIAB and prefer biab = 69
Multi-vessel and prefer = 98 As of 3:25PM eastern 6/6/17
Multi-vessel and prefer = 98 As of 3:25PM eastern 6/6/17
Black Island Brewer
An Ode to Beer
Every time this post pops to the top of the feed, I click on it hoping for another option. I started with three-vessel, added BIAB, and love both. They're different, but I win medals on both.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
You're a crusty old cow
Seriously though, "not appropriate" for what exactly? Because it's a somewhat newer technique in the history of brewing? Maybe using gas stoves is cheating and we should all be brewing over an open firepit. If we are not growing our own hops and barley and malting it ourselves, letting the wild yeast ferment our batches, are we cheating? Not to mention using extract I guess. Hard to see how using a bag to strain your wort instead of a braid or false bottom is cheating.
Joewalla88
Well-Known Member
I recently read about a method using glass beads.
Joewalla88
Well-Known Member
I used to do this too. It worked pretty good, but my efficiency was never consistent. I switched to a copper manifold and upgraded a few things and now I get close to the same everytime. Do you have this issue? I also have access to a decent grain mill now, so that might be the real reason for resolving my efficiency issues, but I Iike to think its my gear and "flawless" process.😁
Dfitz
Well-Known Member
I use herms 3 vessel keggles for smaller batches 5-10 gal. and a two vessel system for 25-30 gal. batches. I really like the simplicity of my single barrel system. Same amount of cleanup and triple the finished product. The
Why? It's HOMEbrewing...everybody gets to decide for themselves how to do it Why would BIAB be cheating or not appropriate? Not baiting you, genuinely curious to understand your viewpoint.
brewbama
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No. I find I get fairly consistent brewhouse efficiency in the low 80(s). I like how fast clean up is as well.
Joewalla88
Well-Known Member
I agree with you on clean up. I do miss that part.
99% chance it's the mill.
Joewalla88
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmmm...... are you sure? 🤔
brewbama
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I do have a JSP Malt Mill that may help but I did not get the consistency that I do now that I use the bag.
Joewalla88
Well-Known Member
I agree with @Denny that's it's most likely due to the mill.
Brew on
I'm sure you guys are probably right, but I got things dialed in now, so I'm afraid of changing anything. The easy clean up would be nice though.
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