Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

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Exactly, I've got to pack it away too. I drank my sample as I was starting the mash on a saison with a friend. If I had put a 6 pack in the fridge, I would be missing a six pack right now because we both kept wishing there was more chilled, it was just so damn good. Gotta have restraint with this one. I'm going to cellar it underneath a couple of other batches. My hope is I forget about it for the next 7-9 months, and I'll have a pleasant surprise in January.
 
Brewed this today: my efficiency was down a little and my post boil volume was a bit too much so I ended up with about 5.75 gal of 1.082 wort. I only used 2 bags of d-180 at the end of the boil. I'm inclined to add another bag (if I can find it) at high krausen. Any thoughts?
 
Brewed this today: my efficiency was down a little and my post boil volume was a bit too much so I ended up with about 5.75 gal of 1.082 wort. I only used 2 bags of d-180 at the end of the boil. I'm inclined to add another bag (if I can find it) at high krausen. Any thoughts?

I would go for it. I used three pounds and the flavor from the gravity samples is great.
 
Bottled today with a half pack of EC-118 and 4.3oz sugar. Can't wait!!! The sample from what was left in the bottling bucket was excellent.
 
Ok, going to add the d-90 into the fermenter tonight to get this recipe close to where it ought to be. Is the consensus that the safer thing to do is boil it first?
 
Sorry to Bogart this thread, but I want to report that the D-90 didn't hurt this beer at all. I think the D-90 is just like doing a wort boil down. The gravity sample tastes great! I did get stuck at 1.022 a few days ago but I threw a hydrated pack of S – 05 in there and now I'm down to 1.012! I'm on day 12 now and I think I'm going to secondary now for a few weeks.
 
Moved 5 gal to a keg to secondary at 50 deg. The beer was very clear already after a few days at 60 degrees and I had enough left over I bottled two 12oz and two bombers. What I found unusual is that there was significantly less yeast in the bottom of my brewbucket than with other yeasts...
 
I started brewing version 40 off of CSI's website on 29th May. It's currently sitting in tertiary. I thought people might be interested in a graph of the fermentation. I have a fridge I have converted to use the BrewPi control system with a small space heater inside and various sensors. I also have a tilt hydrometer which the BrewPi logs.

This photo shows the inside of the fridge with a previous brew in it.
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This shows the Westvleteren 12 with my DIY kreusen capture which wasn't needed in the end.
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The capture device is just a lunch box with a hole for an air-lock and a hole for hose barb. To prevent anything bursting open and getting goo everywhere, I used a fermentor with a full width lid (easy to clean) that is held down by a large threaded ring (no chance of it popping off). That red thing in the middle is a screw on cap. The fermentor came with a blank one and one with a hole that snugly fits 1/2" hose. To stop the hose popping out, I used a male quick-disconnect - barb inserted into the hose on the inside. This is really easy to sanitise and once inserted expends the hose so it can't be pushed out of the hole.
Another neat thing about this setup is the port on the bottom left of the fermentor in the first pic. It came with a blanking piece (which I've used) and a spigot. But that's not what's interesting. Where it attaches is slightly in-set from the rest of the fermentor with a slope at the bottom. The plastic is translucent enough that you can see the bubbles from the yeast at the bottom hitting and moving up this slope. When the fermentation slowed, the bubbles almost stopped in the air lock and the hydrometer practically stopped moving. But the little bubbles were still clearly visible here!

Finally, my graph.
west12.png

The hydrometer isn't 100% accurate, particularly at the top. I forgot to calibrate it with my actual OG reading which was far higher than the wort from my calibration run for the hydrometer. This hydrometer is best used to gauge activity and approx gravity along with a glass hydrometer for accurate readings. OG was 1.090 and the SG going in to secondary was 1.012/1.013 as measured with an old-school glass hydrometer. Note that the gravity went up after transfer to secondary. I think this is because I cleaned quite a bit of krausen off of the hydrometer when transferring. The gravity dropped slightly in secondary, looking at the graph, so I think the FG is around 1.011/1.012. I haven't taken another reading because its about right and what doesn't go in my trial jar goes in the bottles!
Interesting observations with this beer. The last few points took several days. I think with if I'd just been using my glass hydrometer, I might have worried I'd stopped a few points short and given up a day or so earlier and racked to secondary. I also found the temperature of the beer extremely erratic during fermentation. The lively nature of the yeast meant readings bounced +/- 1degC on my real-time readout of the digital thermometer. Far more than usual. You might also notice the temp took a little while to settle down as I was off by a few degrees when it went in the fridge. I'm not too worried by that as it'd be in the lag phase where the yeast is mainly metabolising aerobically and giving off fewer flavour compounds. The temp had settled by the time it started eating through the sugars.

So hows the beer doing? The samples tasted amazing! I was lucky enough to drive over from the UK to St Sixtus with my wife for our honeymoon at the beginning of April and pick up a couple of crates. The young Westvleteren 12 when you pick it up has quite a few hot flavours that overpower the fruits/spices flavours. These begin ageing out relatively quickly though and were notably lower in the second bottle which we opened while brewing this clone. Having had a bottle about 1year old in the past which was much cleaner and complex, I'm the reason some people review the beer and say it is over-rated is because they drank it too young. The sample from ours going into secondary had far fewer of those hot flavours. I'm really interested to see how ours turns out as right now it tastes better than the real thing when drunk too young! We're opening our real Westvleteren 12's about one every 2 months to see how it ages. So it'll be very interesting to see how this clone compares.

Once this brew is in the bottle and our temp controlled fridge is free again, we are planning to brew Saq's recipe listed in the fantastic round-up of the previous thread that can be found on page 3 of this thread. For those who haven't read all the way through this and the previous thread, Saq helped develop the original clone several years ago. He developed it over the years along with others on these forums. Early on CSI set up his company producing Candi Syrup that is reportedly far better than anything available before. Him and his company partners used this clone as one of their tests for their products. Eventually, CSI took the lead on these threads and continued to develop the recipe and keeping it up to date on his company's website. In around 2014, they noticed a clear change from a more complex malt bill to the all-pale malt bill in the recipes today. The updated version of Saq's recipe in the round-up on page 3 of this thread is probably the closest thing to the pre-2014 recipe which some people preferred. We're brewing that immediately after this to compare.

I'll try and remember to post again when we brew Saq's recipe and when they have both aged in the bottle a bit.

Thank you to all who have contributed, btw. I started building our first all-grain brew setup and the fridge around Xmas. They were designed specifically to be able to brew this beer. This recipe was the inspiration for many of the features of both and we probably wouldn't be in this position of enjoying ourselves so much with this hobby without that goal to aim for.

Cheers :mug:
 
Westy 12 (brew 4-28-17) update - Found a hair crack in my hydrometer %$#*. I think my OG of 1.093 was correct as I also did a Plato check of 22.2 before 1st pitch. Glad I always do both reads on OG.

5/14/17, day 16 - @ 70.8F with SG 1.014 (corrected 1.015) still in primary.
Looks like fermentation is on target to reach 1.012. Will reach 60F in 4 days.

This brew requires a good memory and notes. I'm 10 days from the 50.0 F rest period. Will keg on 6/27/17. My last gravity was 1.012 as documented by other brewers on this thread. It's nice to see the measurements and steps in line with others. Just to recap, primary 12 days 65.0F to 82.0F, 8 days from 82.0F to 60.0F and now 40 days at 50.0F. I did not rack to secondary based on the recommendation to maintain the yeast cake.
 
Might be worth noting that a lot of discussion was had early in these threads about the yeast. The temp curve and racking procedure was developed to encourage certain flavour and aroma profiles and suppress others in order to achieve as close a clone as possible. For example, the high primary ferm temp is specifically there to stress the yeast causing it to release specific flavours present in the real Westvleteren 12. I don't know how much of a difference changing the procedure in as significant a way as leaving the beer on the yeast will have. But given the levels of experimentation done by CSI, Saq and others on this recipe (I think racking included), I would be surprised if it leads to a more accurate clone. Though I would be interested to hear if it did. I certainly don't think it'll result in a bad beer :)

The yeast seems to be one of the most important and delicate parts of producing this beer. The pitch rate, quality of yeast, temperature profiles, and racking all seem to have a huge impact on the likelihood of this beer stalling out and on what the beer you get out at the end is like. If there's one part of this recipe you should take extra care with, its the yeast.
 
Trying to understand schedule here.

1/5/2012 - Primary Fermentation (7 days at 63F ending at 80.0 F)
1/23/2012 - Secondary Fermentation (3 -10 days at 78.0 F ending at 60.0 F)
1/26/2012 - Tertiary Fermentation (40 days at 50.0 F ending at 50.0 F)


I am using a Fast Ferment. SO:

After 7 days, dump thrub and start secondary.
After 10 more days... Wait for 40 more days.

Cant really do much about temperature since i do not have much control. But, 1 room is at 21.5 C and other room at 18.5c

Advice?
 
Trying to understand schedule here.

1/5/2012 - Primary Fermentation (7 days at 63F ending at 80.0 F)
1/23/2012 - Secondary Fermentation (3 -10 days at 78.0 F ending at 60.0 F)
1/26/2012 - Tertiary Fermentation (40 days at 50.0 F ending at 50.0 F)


I am using a Fast Ferment. SO:

After 7 days, dump thrub and start secondary.
After 10 more days... Wait for 40 more days.

Cant really do much about temperature since i do not have much control. But, 1 room is at 21.5 C and other room at 18.5c

Advice?

The rise to 78-80 F will help ensure fermentation, since this yeast can stall out at lower temperatures.

The cool-down, especially the tertiary, is mainly for brightening. You will still have an excellent product if you skip this stage, especially if you age it at least a few months in the bottle.
 
If I remember correctly, the yeast can also stall if it rises too fast. Though this might be because it'll potentially blow off large quantities of yeast if you let it go ferment too quickly. It also has a tendency to get too hot if you don't hold the temp down. Though the early recipe did recommend letting it self rise then holding it once it reached temp. I really recommend reading the round-up of posts about the early version of this recipe at the top of page 3. Some of the info there is conflicting but there's a lot of useful info in it if you don't fancy reading through ~110 pages of this thread and ~170 of the previous...

Recommendations in the past have been to try as hard as you can to not drink it before 6 months. This beer isn't "finished" until 6 months in the bottle. It starts getting really good at 1year. It's excellent after 2years.
 
The rise to 78-80 F will help ensure fermentation, since this yeast can stall out at lower temperatures.

The cool-down, especially the tertiary, is mainly for brightening. You will still have an excellent product if you skip this stage, especially if you age it at least a few months in the bottle.

Just dumped the thrub after 10 days (Fastferment rules) Smells really good.. Also, yeast went bonkers and fermented down to 1.012:ban:
 
My brother and I have decided to brew 10 gal of this. We will mash separately due to volume limits but will boil together. Will need to begin the starter a week ahead to get what I need.

Challenge accepted!
 
Does anyone know if CSI is ok? They've not posted since March 2016. That's also when the last update was on the Candi Syrup Inc website blog (about moving to bigger facilities). The recipes page on the website is also somewhat out of date with the brew pipelines showing 2015 & 2016 and mention of a "Malheur Dark Brut" recipe using their D-240 which would be posted in March 2016 once ageing was complete. I know the company is still going as I imported some syrups from them a few months ago. I just hope the person behind the account on here and presumably the website is ok. They have certainly been a fountain of knowledge on here.
 
Just informed my lhbs of the ingredients I will need as I am going to pull the trigger on my third batch of this classic! My brother will also be brewing so we will have 10-11 gallons by the end of the day.

Very excited!
 
Ok, I am close to getting upset. This app won't let me post a pic. This is my 4th attempt...

It is 11 gal of Westvleteren 12 clone (oh, the irony!) with krausen at 13 hours after pitching a 3L starter split in half.

Nope... Effing phone won't effing let me effing upload the effing pic. Tried 6 effing times.
 
View attachment 400625I have a nice Belgian style carb and the taste is amazing as it warms a bit. If this gets better with age it's gonna be awesome. Thanks to all who posted in this thread. I'm so glad I breed this Quad! No to pack it away so I keep my paws off of it. Ha ha!

Since you and I are basically on the same schedule, I wanted to give you an update on mine. I carbed at room temp (between 68-75F) for 6 weeks then it went down into the cellar to age. I just cracked one last week to see how it was progressing (and share it with a friend/critic). Holy crap, just that short amount of aging has drastically changed this beer. It is no longer sweet (that must have been the residual bottling sugar). I'd say its probably carbed to about 2.2-2.4 vols but it has a viscous mouthcoating stone fruit flavor all while being fairly dry and drinkable. The alcohol is blending into the background; there's still a little warmth to it but its fading.

This beer is incredible. Ridiculously incredible. I have brewed so much over the past 5 years and I have a couple brews that stand out to me from the past. This one blows them all away, and its not even close.

Just wanted to give you a heads up in case you were tempted to crack one to see how its progressing. No worries, its progressing just fine. I'm now down to 48 bottles of it and they will all be cellared until Jan. I want to have max volume when this bad boy hits its stride. I was thinking about entering this into a competition, but now I don't want to give any away to a stranger.
 
Since you and I are basically on the same schedule, I wanted to give you an update on mine. I carbed at room temp (between 68-75F) for 6 weeks then it went down into the cellar to age. I just cracked one last week to see how it was progressing (and share it with a friend/critic). Holy crap, just that short amount of aging has drastically changed this beer. It is no longer sweet (that must have been the residual bottling sugar). I'd say its probably carbed to about 2.2-2.4 vols but it has a viscous mouthcoating stone fruit flavor all while being fairly dry and drinkable. The alcohol is blending into the background; there's still a little warmth to it but its fading.

This beer is incredible. Ridiculously incredible. I have brewed so much over the past 5 years and I have a couple brews that stand out to me from the past. This one blows them all away, and its not even close.

Just wanted to give you a heads up in case you were tempted to crack one to see how its progressing. No worries, its progressing just fine. I'm now down to 48 bottles of it and they will all be cellared until Jan. I want to have max volume when this bad boy hits its stride. I was thinking about entering this into a competition, but now I don't want to give any away to a stranger.

Troglodytes,

Thanks for the update. I have been thinking about cracking open another bottle as I am trying to free up a few bottles for a brown ale I just brewed. Your description is making it pretty hard not to. When I do, I'll let you know what I think.
 
I brewed mine the middle of May and bottled the beginning of July. I had one last nice and it's carbonated but perhaps another couple weeks will fully carbonate it. Delicious! In a couple weeks the remaining stash will go to a friends wine cellar to age until the new year. Thank God for friends who have cool storage in the South!
 
Bottled ours last night along with 3 other beers (long story. Our home brew club is having a "will it brew?" competition with bizarre ingredients. We pulled dried blood, like you'd use in British black pudding, out of the hat. We split the batch to try different concentrations. It..... sort of worked....). We ended up with 45 330ml bottles, iirc. This tastes fantastic for such a young beer. Possibly even a little better than a young Westy 12 picked up from the monastery. We used a couple of Westvletren 12 empties for bottling along with the regular Belgian stubbies :)
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On Sunday we're planning to brew a batch of Saq's updated clone recipe for the pre-2014 Westy 12 as per this post in the original thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=3666514&postcount=513. I'll let you know how it goes including the boil-down of the first runnings into a syrup. It should be interesting, to say the least :)
:mug:
 
I agree these are great warm(er). I serve mine direct from the shelf - no refrigeration at all anymore and I love it. Just made my second batch - first is 3 years old now. this time I added tequila barrel oak that I soaked in my favorite sipping tequila :) just bottled last weekend so now..........we wait!
 
My wife and I brewed Saq's revised recipe for the pre-2014 Westvleteren 12 on Sunday. Pretty much went without a hitch. We ended up with a SG of 1.085 going in so added 2/3 of a pouch of Simplicity we had left over from priming the previous batch. This put us bang on 1.090.

Very full mash!
fullMash.jpg


The boildown of the first runnings into a syrup. Next time we do this, I might try something I saw on a TV where people were making boiled sweets. They used a brush and water to regularly coat the exposed sides of the pan to stop the syrup sticking to the sides.
boildown.jpg


The break material was VERY dense on this one. Made for some interesting patterns as it wrinkled over itself.
break.jpg


The syrup from the boildown going in. Excuse my windowsill.
syrup.jpg


This is the ferm today. The kraeusen keeps creeping up the blowoff but hasn't made it to the kraeusen-catcher yet.
fridge.jpg


I also decided to start doing forced-ferment tests on my batches so I can diagnose any ferments that finish high. Here it is when I put it on.
forcedFerm.jpg


And here it is a day later... Complete with tin-foil tray to catch the mess. The glass at the side is the left over sample. It had yeast in it at this point and was also fermenting quite happily. We had a taste before pouring it. Pleasingly nutty at this stage :)
forcedFerm2.jpg


I've got high hopes for this. The samples were a lot more complex from the malts. The current Westy mainly lets the yeast and candi syrups shine with their stone fruits. I think this version will add a more malty/bready character. Will have to see which we prefer and decide which to brew about 2 years before we run out of bottles :tank:
 
My brother and I just began the lagering phase on Saturday, and it will sit for 45 glorious days at at a glorious 45°.

Should be quite tasty!
 
Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.
 
Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.


Lots of good info here. I went back and read it all, that was a year ago as well though too. A lot more to catch up on now, but I still would if you have the time.
 
Would anyone recommend reading this entire thread before I brew this. I'll put off brewing for a day if it's worth it.

I hate reading a thread after I've brewed and realizing that people are trying a new approach and are successful.

You can just follow the recipe and have excellent results. CSI did tweek a few things, like 2 lb. D-180 for the 5.5 gallon batch (instead of 2.5), and he stopped doing the boil-down for the maltose syrup.

If there is one thing that he emphasized over and over, it's pitch enough healthy yeast and let the wort temperature rise. I've never had much trouble with this yeast but others have.

FWIW, the long bulk aging is more for clarity than anything else, so I cut the schedule short and still like the results.
 
Ditto what Kee said.

Also I would recommend a large(half gallon) kraussen catcher and the ability to reintroduce the yeast to the fermentation vessel. Even with close to 2 gal of headroom, I had several blow-offs.
 
Ditto what Kee said.

Also I would recommend a large(half gallon) kraussen catcher and the ability to reintroduce the yeast to the fermentation vessel. Even with close to 2 gal of headroom, I had several blow-offs.

This was by far the most active yeast I've ever worked with. I inserted the widest diameter tube directly in the mouth of the carboy and inserted the other end in a small bucket of water as high above the carboy as possible. Even then, the yeast rose more than half-way up the tube. It beats a krausen device since the yeast is constantly being re-introduced back into the wort, is simple, and cost-effective.
 
This was by far the most active yeast I've ever worked with. I inserted the widest diameter tube directly in the mouth of the carboy and inserted the other end in a small bucket of water as high above the carboy as possible. Even then, the yeast rose more than half-way up the tube. It beats a krausen device since the yeast is constantly being re-introduced back into the wort, is simple, and cost-effective.

I like that idea. And giving the yeast a LOT of room is probably the first point to make about this recipe. I was wrong more than once saying to myself "surly this time I have enough headspace".
 
Thanks for the tips everyone! I'm brewing right now. I've completely switched to brewing only Belgian styles, almost through BLAM, read Yeast. Drank every Trappist I could get my hands on. Got 350 billion WL530 cells ready.

I Think I'm ready! Hahaha

As many others have said thanks for the thorough and well laid out details.
 
I could only get my hands on a one lb bottle of dark Belgian candi syrup but I decided to make some candi sugar myself. I didn't get it dark enough so I also did the boil down of the first runnings but I still only got a very deep amber beer.

Everything else went smooth so I'll just have a beer that's a little lighter in color and some loss of flavors due to not having the real dark Belgian. Candy.

It's still amazing how dark and rich this beer is with just base malts. There's something to be said about that simplicity of recipe but complexity in technique.

Most of my Belgians utilize nearly 5 malt varieties.
 
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