Well... My first mead and looks like I screw up on OG....

[bolepa]

Hi everyone! In my previous thread I told you that I am getting ready to make make mead for first time and was asking for y our advices. Once again - thank you everyone who helped me on that phase!
On April 10th I made two 3 gallon batches of mead: for one I used D47 yeast and for another Red Star Premier Classic. I used 9 pounds of honey per each 3 gallon vessel. Yeasts were rehydrated in water with Go-Ferm prior to adding them to the must... I used TOSNA calculator for nutrients addition so... I added Fermaid O at 24, 48 and 72 hours interval. Also, I was aerating the must twice a day.
Here is my problem: when I measured OG (right after I mixed all honey with water) and probably because I was so exited I took (obviously) wrong measurements. Must from one fermenter showed me 1.115 and from another 1.400. I said to myself: "WOW! Something is wrong because based on amount of honey and water in each fermenter OG has to be the same...". So, everything was and still fermenting just fine as of today. Yesterday I decided to measure SG to find out if 1/3 sugar brake is occurred and I was unpleasantly surprised to find that reading were 1.190 and 1.180 respectively. How come? Gravity went up after 6 days of fermentation? Of course I realized that I screw up while measuring my initial gravity first time...
I tried very small amount of mead hoping to taste some alcohol in it but it was just sweet... and I didn't taste any alcohol in it...
From what I learned so far, it looks like that I am screwed on finding correct 1/3 sugar brake as well as future ABV level... I am asking for help from you guys if there is any way to determine approximate OG level of my mead? Please let me know if you need any additional information.... Thank you!

 

[bushpilot]

One pound of honey in a gallon of must adds about .035 points to the SG. So 3 pounds would be .035x3=1.105.

Or, using the GotMead calculator (The Mead Calculator – Got Mead? The Largest Mead Resource on the Web), I get 1.108.

Are you sure your hydrometer is good?

 

[bolepa]

Thank you, bushpilot. Yes, I tested my hydrometer in plain water - it showed 1.000 so I guess it's good....

 

[bolepa]

Update: Its been two days since I measured SG in both of my 3 gallon fermenters. Two days ago it was 1.080 (D47) and 1.090 (Red Star Premier Classique). Today it was 1.071 (see attachment) and 1.80 accordingly. Yes, it still bubbling but now I see bubbles every 2 - 3 seconds. I didn't feed any nutrients since last time which was 72 hours after pitched yeast and taking in consideration that I screwed up on OG it's my understanding that I need to feed nutrients now. I cannot determine 1/3 sugar brake anyway... Any suggestions? Thank you!

 

[Maylar]

I would let it ride

 

[bolepa]

I would let it ride

Thank you, Maylar! Another words your suggestion is leave as is without feeding nutrients. Correct? If so, for how long do you think I should leave it for fermentation? Another two-three weeks and then transfer to 1 gallon vessels for secondary fermentation? What SG I should be looking for before transfer?

 

[Maylar]

You've already added enough nutrients. Wait for it to finish, which means the gravity is unchanged for a week. Both of those yeasts are capable of taking the mead to or below 1.000.

 

[bolepa]

Sounds great! Thank you!

 

[MightyMosin]

Update: Its been two days since I measured SG in both of my 3 gallon fermenters. Two days ago it was 1.080 (D47) and 1.090 (Red Star Premier Classique). Today it was 1.071 (see attachment) and 1.80 accordingly. Yes, it still bubbling but now I see bubbles every 2 - 3 seconds. I didn't feed any nutrients since last time which was 72 hours after pitched yeast and taking in consideration that I screwed up on OG it's my understanding that I need to feed nutrients now. I cannot determine 1/3 sugar brake anyway... Any suggestions? Thank you!

1.108 should be your OG with the honey qty you listed. That puts you 1/3 break at 1.072.

You should be good to go on your next addition. You are currently at about 5% ABV so your yeast will still take up the nutrients.

 

[bolepa]

1.108 should be your OG with the honey qty you listed. That puts you 1/3 break at 1.072.

You should be good to go on your next addition. You are currently at about 5% ABV so your yeast will still take up the nutrients.

Great information, Mosin! So, taking your calculation of my OG I should be able to calculate ABV at final stage....
Also, from what I read so far, and taking in consideration that I am shooting for semisweet mead - I don't want to go to less then 1.020 of FG... Is this correct? Thank you!

 

[MightyMosin]

Great information, Mosin! So, taking your calculation of my OG I should be able to calculate ABV at final stage....
Also, from what I read so far, and taking in consideration that I am shooting for semisweet mead - I don't want to go to less then 1.020 of FG... Is this correct? Thank you!

Your final gravity is likely to go to 1.000 or slightly below that, which will give you a 14% mead. If you want itsweeter you will have to stabilize it and then back sweeten.

 

[bolepa]

Your final gravity is likely to go to 1.000 or slightly below that, which will give you a 14% mead. If you want itsweeter you will have to stabilize it and then back sweeten.

Hmmm... I was under impression (from what I read online and on this forum) that I will be able to reach 12-14% ABV while having semi-sweet mead without back sweetening it... Definitively, self-educating myself online is not enough... Not even close to be... More experience is needed!!! Thank you, Mosin!

 

[MightyMosin]

It is possible to start with more honey and when/if the yeast hit their ABV tolerance, then whatever is left would be your sweetness left over. One of the problems with that is that most of these wine yeast have a pretty high tolerance and with proper nutrition they often zoom right past their published tolerance level.

Another larger issue is that starting with all of that honey creates a higher osmatic pressure on the yeast and it is difficult for them to ferment.

Ale yeasts like the SafAle S-04 are rated at 9-11%, but they can hit ~13.5% in my experience, though often 12% is typical. With a yeast like that you can try and calculate the amount of honey to say 12% and then add another 0.020 points of gravity. If it stops at your target you will get the left over sweetness that you are looking for. The Wyeast 1388 seems to pretty reliable eat through 1.020 points of gravity and stop if I remember @Dan O comments correctly.

 

[DBhomebrew]

The Wyeast 1388 seems to pretty reliable eat through 1.020 points of gravity and stop if I remember @Dan O comments correctly.

120pts. 1.120 down to 1.000, 1.130 to 1.010, etc.

 

[madscientist451]

I would let it ride

I have to respectfully disagree. Follow the TONSA protocol.
So at this point I have to come clean on my lazy mead making (and brewing) sins. Yeah, you're supposed to measure the gravity and add the staggered nutrient additions at the suggested proper times, but I'm way too lazy and busy to pull all those samples, so my lazy method is to add first addition 24 hrs after pitching rehydated yeast, second addition 48-72 hrs after that and third addition 48-72 hrs after second addition.
My range is 48-72 hrs because often I get busy or aren't home or there's some other reason its not getting done. However, using my lazy, imprecise methods has still greatly improved my mead. So perhaps letting up on the fussing and being a lazy brewer will work for you as well.
Your results will likely vary....

 

[MightyMosin]

It's funny. I look at my calendar before starting new meads to make sure I won't be away for the feeding schedule. If it is close, they'll get additions 3 & 4 at the same time. Session meads I always just throw all the nutrients in up front and don't try TOSNA.

 

[bushpilot]

Topic drift, but ...

For anything with a gravity of less than 1.090, I add it upfront if I am using Fermaid-O, or after 24 hours if using DAP. (This is where I confess that I still use DAP sometimes ...)

For any higher OG, I figure up my total nutrition additions and divide it into three portions. I then degas add the first at 24 hours, the second at 48 hours, and the third at 72 hours.

 

[MightyMosin]

About 1.060 and under, I front load all nutrients, though I usually do 6% or 10%+.

 

[Maylar]

I have to respectfully disagree. Follow the TONSA protocol.

He's already added the TOSNA quantities. Without knowing the OG it's possible he may be at the 9% ABV point where yeast stop assimilating nutrients. If that's the case whatever he adds now will remain in the mead. And taste like crap. Respectfully...

 

[bolepa]

Nice discussion, guys and I really appreciate your help!
I am a bit confused now:

it's possible he may be at the 9% ABV point where yeast stop assimilating nutrients.

Per yeast strain chart both yeast strains I currently use have ability to go up to 14-15% ABV:

Lalvin

D-47 White Wine

Dry

50-86 °F (10-30 °C)

14%

Red Star

Montrachet

Dry

54-95 °F (12-35 °C)

15%

I read somewhere that Red Star Premiere Classic is in fact Montrachet... Saying that, even if my mead reached 9% it still can go higher. Also, when I was taking SG readings yesterday I performed a taste test (just about a half Tbsp from each fermenter). Certainly, there is some alcohol in it but not too much - I would say around 5%. It still way too sweet.... Definitely I cannot rely on my taste for ABV determination but I doubt the abv in my mead reached such a Hight digit like 9%. Once again, this is my assumption only...

 

[Maylar]

It's not that the yeast won't go beyond 9%, my comment was that yeast can't assimilate nutrients beyond that. So it's dangerous to add more after that point.

 

[bolepa]

It's not that the yeast won't go beyond 9%, my comment was that yeast can't assimilate nutrients beyond that. So it's dangerous to add more after that point.

Oh, I got it. I just learned something new.... Thank you!

 

[Dan O]

Every day's a school day

 

[bolepa]

Every day's a school day

That is very true!!

 

[madscientist451]

He's already added the TOSNA quantities. Without knowing the OG it's possible he may be at the 9% ABV point where yeast stop assimilating nutrients. If that's the case whatever he adds now will remain in the mead. And taste like crap. Respectfully...

Yes you are correct about adding the nutrients when ABV is too high. My comments were based on the statement by the OP that he made 3 nutrient additions and the TONSA method calls for 4.
Please excuse my sometimes incoherent ramblings brought on by a little too much homebrewed beverages.

 

[bolepa]

Good morning Ladies & Gentlemen.... Here I am again with more questions for you and with hope you will be able to answer those questions...
1. I was measured SG this morning (three weeks after fermentation started) and it was:
D47 - 1.030 (it was 1.045 one week ago). Taste tasted it and flavor was good and I tasted definitely more alcohol in it. As soon as I prefer semi sweet mead, should I stabilize it at 1.015 or maybe let it ferment till fermentation ends naturally, rack it for secondary fermentation and then back sweet the mead before buttling?
- Red Star Premier Classic - 1.055 and this is strange because SG was the same one week ago. Doesn't look like stalled fermentation because it still bubbling... Taste was about the same as a week ago with approximately about the same percentage of alcohol )just by personal taste).
Yes, the mead in both vessels still fermenting because I can see bubbles. Bubbling is slowing down: it's one bubble every 8 second for D47 & one bubble every 12 seconds for Red Star Premier Classic. Should I start worrying about "Red Star Premier Classic" mead? Should I pitch some more yeast or use energizer for this batch?
2. As soon as I am getting closer to start racking the mead I want to be prepared for situation if I have to use clearing agents.... I went through this forum and also googled this and found a lot of information about how to clear the mead. So many clearing agents so I am still a bit foggy on what agent is best to use. Let's say Bentonite.... Considered one of the best but gives a lot of sediment and reduces amount of mead a bit.... What would you recommend base on your experience?
Thank you in advance!

 

[bolepa]

Hi everyone! Still waiting for some help from you.... Thank you.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Ferment until it's completely done. Rack, let it clear. Stabilize and backsweeten.

Leave the Red Star alone. I bet it's doing just fine.

Finings can help speed clearing. Time does a pretty good job too.

 

[bolepa]

Thank you, DB and I appreciate your comment! Would you mind to share with me what fining agents are preferable to use?

 

[DBhomebrew]

I use bentonite in primary. When that's done, I rack it onto Sparkoloid in a secondary vessel. Sometimes I skip the Sparkoloid and just let time do its thing. Cold crashing can also do wonders.

 

[bolepa]

Thank you for the clarification, BD!

 

[bushpilot]

Bentonite in primary, and time In secondary usually gets it done for me. If not, I also cold crash.

 

[bolepa]

Cold crashing can also do wonders

I also cold crash.

Thank you, Gentlemen! Cold crush option is not for me - I don't have room in my fridge for two 3-gallon vessels...
I do have bentonite on hand but as much as I could learn it creates a lot of sediment in carboy and thus decreases amount of mead in it.. Isn't it? I have another agent - Super-Kleer and heard it works like a charm but I would like to hear your opinion on this first, before I start using it...

 

[DBhomebrew]

I have not used Super-Kleer. Yes, bentonite creates a big fluffy cloud of sediment. I find cold crashing helps it compact. If that's not available to you, time will do it with our without finings. Time will make a better tasting mead, too.

 

[bolepa]

I have not used Super-Kleer. Yes, bentonite creates a big fluffy cloud of sediment. I find cold crashing helps it compact. If that's not available to you, time will do it with our without finings. Time will make a better tasting mead, too.

Got it. Thank you, Sir!

 

[MightyMosin]

Super-Kleer (Kieselsol & Chitosan) works very well. You will want to let it sit a week or after it clears to allow let all the fining agents drop out to the bottom and avoid the funky taste.

You will want to make sure you have degassed it well before using these.

I typically will add the Kieselsol and stir it in for a minute or two. An hour or two later, I add my Chitosan. I have done this where I added the Chitosan about 24 hours later but I then need to be very careful about not stirring up what has settled to the bottom as my experience has had it not clear up again very fast without having to add a bit more of the Kieselsol.

 

[bolepa]

Super-Kleer (Kieselsol & Chitosan) works very well. You will want to let it sit a week or after it clears to allow let all the fining agents drop out to the bottom and avoid the funky taste.

You will want to make sure you have degassed it well before using these.

I typically will add the Kieselsol and stir it in for a minute or two. An hour or two later, I add my Chitosan. I have done this where I added the Chitosan about 24 hours later but I then need to be very careful about not stirring up what has settled to the bottom as my experience has had it not clear up again very fast without having to add a bit more of the Kieselsol.

Great info, MightyMosin! Thank you. I think I will be using Super-Kleer when time comes - at the end of secondary fermentation....

 

[MightyMosin]

I do have bentonite on hand but as much as I could learn it creates a lot of sediment in carboy and thus decreases amount of mead in it.. Isn't it?

If used at the beginning of fermentation, by the time fermentation is done, Bentonite will form a mud like cake at the bottom that will tend to trap the sediment that it dropped out of suspension and does a pretty good job of keeping it trapped there. You don't lose any more or less as the Bentonite is displacing your mead. I find that I can often rack out more as the sludge is trapped within the Bentonite.

Whether it is Bentonite with Sparkolloid or Super-Kleer, you will generally see quite a bit drop out of your honey is pretty raw and only lightly filtered. Either way you are racking the cleared Mead that is above it all. Bentonite and Sparkolloid have been my general go to fining agents though I have started to use Kieselsol and Chitosan more now as there is less prep involved. I still use Bentonite in primary.

 

[bolepa]

If used at the beginning of fermentation, by the time fermentation is done, Bentonite will form a mud like cake at the bottom that will tend to trap the sediment that it dropped out of suspension and does a pretty good job of keeping it trapped there.

So.... I am close to end of 4th week of primary fermentation. It may or may not take one or two more week which would conclude primary fermentation... Then mead will be racked for secondary one.... This is my understanding that I can add finning agents during secondary fermentation. Is this correct?

 

[MightyMosin]

Add them at secondary. To my Knowledge, Bentonite is the only one that can be used in both.

Tannins in primary also help with clearing, but they aren't considered a fining agent. Experience also seems to show that oak in primary might have some benefit for speed of clearing; though I only use it in primary on mead that I know for sure I want oaking with.