Water

[kjr24]

Hey again guys I have been looking more and more into the research in water, but still am having a little trouble I will be testing my water soon. But what I was wondering is there any real guidelines to follow for say an IPA?

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

Harder water accentuates hop bitterness more, the guideline is like 2:1 sulfate to chloride. I use softened water and back treat it to add minerals, but I prefer a softer water with my beers, regardless of the style, they tend to be smoother on the palate.

 

[mabrungard]

The sulfate/chloride ratio is not really useful for assessing if a water is suited for one style or another. It only works in a narrow range of concentration. Hardness is also not an indicator if a water is suited or unsuited for brewing. The main thing brewers need to be concerned with is the alkalinity of their water. That has a direct effect on the brewing outcome.

Read the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to help understand what you need to be concerned with in your water and how to manage it.

 

[Mexibilly]

You might try 100% RO water with your IPA grain bill.
Before I started attempting to dial in my chemistry I brewed several very nice IPAs with RO.

 

[mabrungard]

Using RO to brew with, is a relatively fool-proof method. However, you will want to add some minerals to that water for flavor. I've tasted beers made with straight RO and they tend to be bland. You do need some 'seasoning' to make the beer taste right. Gypsum would be the preferred mineral to add in the case of IPA.

This approach can be more expensive and inconvenient compared to tap water. That's why getting that tap water tested and understanding what's in it, is an important task.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Using RO to brew with, is a relatively fool-proof method. However, you will want to add some minerals to that water for flavor. I've tasted beers made with straight RO and they tend to be bland. You do need some 'seasoning' to make the beer taste right. Gypsum would be the preferred mineral to add in the case of IPA.

Sorry if I'm reviving a nearly year old thread here, but what would you recommend as a decent minerals addition here when starting with straight RO? And would you also add the same minerals to the RO sparge water?

I'm getting ready to make a 5.7 gallon (to the fermenter) IPA with targets of 7% ABV and 70 IBU. I was considering adding the following to both my mash and sparge water:

4 grams calcium sulfate (gypsum)
2 grams calcium chloride dihydrate
2 grams magnesium sulfate (epsom salt)

 

[mabrungard]

Assuming that your goal is to create a somewhat dry beer finish, those additions are reasonable. I have to admit that 140 ppm sulfate is not dry enough for my tastes, but its a good starting point for you to find your own preferences.

For the minimum additions that an RO user might consider, the Water Primer's recommendations are appropriate.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Assuming that your goal is to create a somewhat dry beer finish, those additions are reasonable. I have to admit that 140 ppm sulfate is not dry enough for my tastes, but its a good starting point for you to find your own preferences.

Thanks Martin! Given your preference for more dryness in the IPA style, what changes to my 4,2,2 mineral additions would bring things more into your liking?

In general, which mineral(s) is(are) the driving force behind the perception of dryness?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Martin! Given your preference for more dryness in the IPA style, what changes to my 4,2,2 mineral additions would bring things more into your liking?

In general, which mineral(s) is(are) the driving force behind the perception of dryness?

I'm not Martin, but I thought it would be interesting to tell you one of the ways Martin and I differ in the sulfate level in IPAs. I think Martin really likes a lot of sulfate, like 300 ppm, in those beers. For me, I have one recipe that I love with that much sulfate, but for many of my 'usual' home ones (not competition IPAs or pale ales), I often am very pleased with 135-150 ppm of sulfate and get there with RO water and enough gypsum to get the sulfate where I want it, and the calcium at 50-80 or so. I use 100% RO water, and often hit the mash pH I want without acid additions with the gypsum. I like to mash my IPAs at 5.35-5.4 pH or thereabouts.

I find a very high sulfate level a bit too dry in the finish for many of my IPAs and pale ales, but in others I like it. I would say that for a first go, "less is more" might work for you, until you know your preference. Most of my IPAs are approachable and hoppy, but not with harsh bitterness because that is how I like them on a daily basis. You may want something with a firmer dry bitterness.

When I judge, I don't generally judge IPAs. There are two main reasons, and both have to do with how much I love them- they are my favorite style. When I judge them, it's hard for me to be non-subjective about those. I can judge other styles like English ales or European amber lagers much better because my preferences don't really come into play. I hope that makes sense! The other reason is that if they ask you want you'd prefer to judge, many judges will say "IPAs!" and I just say "whatever" and get assigned where they need me.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I'm not Martin, but I thought it would be interesting to tell you one of the ways Martin and I differ in the sulfate level in IPAs. I think Martin really likes a lot of sulfate, like 300 ppm, in those beers. For me, I have one recipe that I love with that much sulfate, but for many of my 'usual' home ones (not competition IPAs or pale ales), I often am very pleased with 135-150 ppm of sulfate and get there with RO water and enough gypsum to get the sulfate where I want it, and the calcium at 50-80 or so. I use 100% RO water, and often hit the mash pH I want without acid additions with the gypsum. I like to mash my IPAs at 5.35-5.4 pH or thereabouts.

Thanks Yooper! I've I'm reading this correctly, it is the SO4 level that determines the dryness (with higher being dryer), and my 4,2,2 mineral mix is relatively in line with your liking for IPA as opposed to Martins.

 

[mabrungard]

If the recipe hasn't been 'tuned' for use with high sulfate water, you may find that an old, tried and true recipe can be screwed up with a big sulfate content. But, there are advantages to using high sulfate content. The primary advantage is that you can reduce both bittering and flavor additions slightly since the sulfate's effect will magnify those elements slightly.

My advice is to go ahead and brew with the proposed ionic levels and then add sulfate in a glass of that beer to see if there is an improvement. Since you can't take ionic content out after brewing, its best to start low.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If the recipe hasn't been 'tuned' for use with high sulfate water, you may find that an old, tried and true recipe can be screwed up with a big sulfate content. But, there are advantages to using high sulfate content. The primary advantage is that you can reduce both bittering and flavor additions slightly since the sulfate's effect will magnify those elements slightly.

My advice is to go ahead and brew with the proposed ionic levels and then add sulfate in a glass of that beer to see if there is an improvement. Since you can't take ionic content out after brewing, its best to start low.

Good advice! Thanks!!!