Water Report From Ward Lab, What Do You Think?

[pshankstar]

I have been using RO water for brewing but I sometimes I find it to be a pain to run out to the store and try to get my containers refilled. There have been occasions where the machine is being serviced or repaired. Or so many other people have used it, that the unit needs to process the water and replenish it's tank.

I want to work on the water side of my brews. So what do you all think about my water from the report? Does it look good to brew any particular styles without any adjustments? Just curious to know any thoughts. Does anything in particular stand out to you all? I run my water through a charcoal filter and that's what I sent to Ward Lab for analysis. Would I still need to add campden tablets to my water too? I've read mixed things on this, but it seems like you don't need to if the water is run through a charcoal filter.

Below is the information from Ward Labs (screen shot too):

pH - 8
TDS Est - 248
EC - 0.41
Cations - 3.9
Anions - 4.2
Sodium - 21
Calcium - 39
Magnesium - 12
Potassium - 2
Total Hardness - 148
Nitrate - 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfur - 6
Carbonate CO3 - < 1.0
Bicarbonate HCO3 - 146
Chloride - 51
Total Alkalinity - 121



I think I have entered everything into the Bru'n Water spreadsheet correctly. The next recipe I plan to make has been entered into the spreadsheet as well. Please note I do BIAB with no sparging. That is why the sparse water is zeroed out. With the print outs (PDF) below, does it all look good using my water and not RO water? Seems like I need to add a lot of Latic Acid to bring the PH level down, but my water's PH from the report is 8 to begin with.

Thanks in advance everyone! I know this is a lot, but I wanted to provide all the info I could right up front. Cheers!

View attachment Brun Water Water Report Input.pdf
View attachment Brun Water Water Profile Adjustment Calc.pdf
View attachment Brun Water Mash Acidification Calc.pdf

 

[flugelizor]

I ignored the PH on my report.
The mash chemistry will change the PH quite a bit.

What caught my attention is all that bicarbonate.
Not the best for IPAs.
A quick Google turned up info that Pre-boiling the water might help that.

But anyway, PH and bicarbonate are related, so I know what you mean about the PH.

 

[pshankstar]

I ignored the PH on my report.
The mash chemistry will change the PH quite a bit.

What caught my attention is all that bicarbonate.
Not the best for IPAs.
A quick Google turned up info that Pre-boiling the water might help that.

But anyway, PH and bicarbonate are related, so I know what you mean about the PH.

Yeah, running the numbers through Bru'n Water I would need about 12.2mL of Lactic Acid to bring my PH down to 5.2.

IPAs and Pale Ales are my favorite styles to brew, but I'm always curious to try different styles here and there too. That's why I was curious to know if there were any beer styles (if any) that would do well with my water as is. Even though I am sure many styles would require some adjusts, some more than others. Thanks flugelizor!

 

[ElChangoGuero]

i would recommend you try EZ water calculator, there are some videos by BobbyNJ on how to use it on an older version, but basically the same thing, you would need to adjust it with some salts so you can fit it to your beer water profile, but these are not expensive at all, 35 dlls and you got all you need plus a little gram scale, add the salts first then you want to hit a 5.5-5.6 ph at room temp so the ph at mash is 5.2

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

 

[mabrungard]

That water is an acceptable starting point. Some ions are slightly high, but not enough to be serious problems. The main concern is to neutralize the alkalinity. Lactic will be fine for this water.

 

[stpug]

Observations:
-That looks like reasonable water to work with - fairly adjustable for many/most styles
-That's A LOT of brewing water you start with just to end up with 5.5 gallons in the fermenter. Is it correct?
-I don't think a mash 5.2pH is necessary; 5.3-5.5 seems to be a more reasonable range IMO and will reduce lactic acid
-If the grainbill is for an apa/ipa then I think you could use more sulfates which will further reduce lactic acid

Finally, brew some beers with your water; decide for yourself how the resulting beers are; adjust next batch if needed. My brewing water is not too dissimilar from yours and I run the gambit on styles I brew without much/any negative impact.

 

[pshankstar]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated!

@stpug, I do BIAB without sparging. Plus, the keggle I have has a ball valve at the lowest point it could be installed. It usually leaves about 1.25-1.5 gallons if I do not tip the keggle to drain all the wort. That's why I start to high. Plus it seems like my boil off rate is about 3/4 of a gallon per hour. I'm still trying to dial in my equipment and make the profile in Beersmith more accurate. I guess I need to brew more often to figure this out.

 

[stpug]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated!

@stpug, I do BIAB without sparging. Plus, the keggle I have has a ball valve at the lowest point it could be installed. It usually leaves about 1.25-1.5 gallons if I do not tip the keggle to drain all the wort. That's why I start to high. Plus it seems like my boil off rate is about 3/4 of a gallon per hour. I'm still trying to dial in my equipment and make the profile in Beersmith more accurate. I guess I need to brew more often to figure this out.

That makes sense why you start with such a large amount. Yeah, getting the equipment profile dialed-in in Beersmith helps quite a bit (but sometimes feels like I'm chasing a white whale ).

You can decrease the amount of lactic you use by reserving some brewing water and use it as a pour-over sparge. Then you'd mash using enough lactic to hit you mash ph (which would be quite a bit less), and only dose the sparge water to about 5.5pH. The net result would be less acid used and is, IMO, a reasonable thing to do for small(ish) grainbills where you don't want to push the water:grist ratio much above 3qt/lb or where the flavor of lactic acid might carry over (e.g. light lagers, cream ale, etc).

Phosphoric is another option that has a much higher flavor threshold which allows using more with less impact, or where a lactic character might be out of place.

 

[flugelizor]

I see you were also asking about campden taablets.
I assume you are worried about chlorine?
I think the charcoal filter will remove chlorine, but some municipatities add chloramide.
Charcoal does not remove chloramide.

I have found that info is not always available, but brew a batch and see.
If you get band-aid or plastic flavor, that's probably chloramide.

I brew with municipal tap water filtered through charcoal, and it's great with no campden.

 

[ajdelange]

Charcoal filters will indeed remove both chlorine and chloramide (monochloramine as it is called by most). Most RO systems have a charcoal filter in front of the membrane for exactly this reason. If chlorine/chloramine are of concern see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=361073.

Since alkalinity (bicarbonate) was mentioned earlier I'll comment that the 2.25 mEq/L (121 ppm as CaCO3) isn't a great deal but it is over twice what we can usually shrug off and thus enough to be problematic in many beers so that it must be removed by dilution with RO or conversion to CO2 with acid. The rule of thumb is that you will need 90% of the alkalinity here 2.25 - .225 ~ 2 mEq/L of water treated. The 10% phosphoric acid sold in home brew shops is about 1 N so that you will need about 2 mL of that for each liter of water. The lactic acid sold by home brew shops is about 11.8 N so you would need approximately 2/11.8 mL /L of
that stuff.

You do have nearly 2 mEq/L calcium hardness so you could add 1 more (total 3) as the chloride or sulfate and then treat with lime or boil the water in which case 1 mEq/L of alkalinity and hardness would drop pout leaving an alkalinity of 1 and a harness of 2 (approximately) but this is much more work than just cutting 1:1 with RO water or adding a bit of acid.

 

[pshankstar]

Thank you all for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it! I've read through them all multiple times this weekend and again this morning before responding.

It sounds like the water isn't too bad to use for brewing, I really need to make some adjustments. Martin mentions the Lactic Acid should help neutralize the alkalinity without any issues. AJ recommends for every one gallon of my tap water, to use one gallon of RO water. This would help cut down some of the minerals (I'll use that term loosely). STPUG mentions maybe trying Phosphoric instead of the Lactic since there is so much I would need to use (12.2mL) if I use all tap water. flugelizor, thanks for answering my Campden question. There is no need for them right now (AJ you did you talk about the chlorine and chloramide). ElChangoGuero, I will also look into the EZ Water link you provided.

Again, I really appreciate all of your help! I hope to be able to brew a batch of beer this week. I'm on the fence if I should brew with just my tap water or do a 1:1 ratio with RO water as AJ suggested. Of course making all the "mineral" additions as needed. Thanks again everyone!

 

[flugelizor]

I just noticed you are from Canandaigua!
Cheers I drive through there all the time!
Look me up if you are ever in Wellsville.