Water profile question

[walker111]

Hi all
Happy New Year belated

I know the water profile questions can be many and there are so many factors to contend with.
I am brewing over 3 years now and the past year I have been working on the water additions.

I use CC, gypsum, and L acid along with capden tablets.

Local water report here in Calgary Alberta was:

Cal 55
Mg 16
Sodium 7
Chloride 9
Sulphate 78

I do double batches of all grain and brew ales.

How do you think this tap /city water is for a pale ale or a amber ale ( one hoppy vs one malty)

Also, neighbor gave me a 5 gallon jug of spring water with the following:
Ca 63
Mg 18
Na 11
K 1
SO4 45
Cl 13

Would this water fit a certain beer profile?

Thanks so much. Lots to learn.

 

[Jag75]

I would look into a mash program . There are some different ones out there that will help you with exactly this . Ive used Bru n Water now for a while and really like it . Also check out the sticky "primer" I think its titled in the Brew science section

 

[walker111]

I did see there are programs and water calculators out there. Will look into this more.
Thanks for reply.

 

[IslandLizard]

The missing parameter in both is alkalinity. It's important and essential for pH calculations (buffering capacity). From the above it looks like it's zero or even "negative" in your tap water, which makes the accuracy of all numbers look a bit suspicious. Maybe call them to get the actual numbers.

If they add up, given the small difference in minerals between your tap water and the bottled "Spring" water you can use either, depending on their alkalinity. They're both a little high in Sulfate, but nothing you can't work with. Most beer benefits from 50-60 ppm sulfate.

I'm moving this thread to the Brew Science forum. Maybe someone there can lend some insights.

 

[walker111]

Thanks. I received the numbers through an email from a brewer in my area. I do measure ph and buffer accordingly and have a lot to learn.
thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks. I received the numbers through an email from a brewer in my area. I do measure ph and buffer accordingly and have a lot to learn.
thanks

You water company should have data on all the minerals in your domestic water. Ask to speak to someone in "quality control" to get up to date numbers (ppm) for those minerals we brewers are (most) interested in.

Wouldn't it be such a treat if water companies posted their current mineral profiles on their sites. Daily or at least weekly updates. I'd settle for monthly as long as a 12 month history is visible. When pigs fly...

You measure your water pH or mash pH?
Water pH by itself means very little. It's the amount of buffering that resists change in pH when we add something (like grain or acid). Given the numbers you posted, buffering (alkalinity) may well be low (<20-30 ppm), which would be good, especially for sparging. And easy to adjust mash pH for.

 

[cire]

You measure your water pH or mash pH?
Water pH by itself means very little. It's the amount of buffering that resists change in pH when we add something (like grain or acid). Given the numbers you posted, buffering (alkalinity) may well be low (<20-30 ppm), which would be good, especially for sparging. And easy to adjust mash pH for.

Can you check that again please? My calculations suggest the spring water has alkalinity in the order of 125 mg/L CaCO3 and more in the domestic supply. Otherwise both waters seem suitable for brewing provided their alkalinities are reduced sufficiently.

 

[walker111]

I measure ph for my water and for mash ( about 5-10 minutes into mash) after cooling. City water here is around 7.2. Mash I aim for 5.2-5.5 and usually fall inside of these.

You are right about seeking the city water info..................... should be easy but.......

I understand the ratio sulphate : chloride.

question however. If I need 30 litres of water for my grain and say I want to accomodate for a Pale Ale,
I am thinking of a general 2.5 : 1 ratio of chloride to sulphate.

How many grams of each would I need in this case? This is where I have been trying different ratios and recording findings .
Thanks for your help. Appreciated

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Based upon cation/anion mEq balance (a somewhat tainted science for this case, due to not knowing fully all of the "other" present ions or their concentrations, but with the knowledge that the unknowns are 'generally' in low enough concentration to not change things significantly) the alkalinity of the first water is in the "ballpark" of 124 ppm (as CaCO3), and the second is in the ballpark of 190 ppm (as CaCO3).

These figures should be good enough for the various calculators.

To neutralize 5 gallons of the first water to ~5.5 pH (~12 ppm alkalinity**) should require ~3.7 mL of 88% lactic acid, and for 5 gallons of the the second water this acid addition should be on the order of ~5.8 mL. If the post acid addition and mixing pH result is close to 5.5 pH for each case, that lends strong credence to the validity of these initially presumed alkalinity valuations.

Scale the acid addition volume to water volume for water volumes other than 5 gallons.

**Technically the state of zero ppm alkalinity (as bicarbonate HCO3-) is only achieved via acid addition (titration) to an achieved pH of 4.3. See thumbnail.

 

[walker111]

Thanks for that! Reading a lot on this as always trying to improve my beers. My friends think it is great but WE are usually the ones that find fault in the beer!!!!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thanks for that! Reading a lot on this as always trying to improve my beers. My friends think it is great but WE are usually the ones that find fault in the beer!!!!

I have much the same issue. Friends and relatives who are afraid to tell me what they really think and hurt my feelings. So no matter how flawed it is, they always say its great.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you check that again please? My calculations suggest the spring water has alkalinity in the order of 125 mg/L CaCO3 and more in the domestic supply. Otherwise both waters seem suitable for brewing provided their alkalinities are reduced sufficiently.

Yeah, sorry, my mistake.

 

[walker111]

I have much the same issue. Friends and relatives who are afraid to tell me what they really think and hurt my feelings. So no matter how flawed it is, they always say its great.

We are the harshest critics of our own for the most part.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

We are the harshest critics of our own for the most part.

Bingo! When I tell them it's flaws, they say that I'm being too hard on myself, so once again we have much the same situation.