If you're no sparging, all the water you use is mash water, none is sparge. All the salts would be stirred into the mash.
Kal, if you list your whole profile, I can play around to see if I can get something you can work with.
If you're no sparging, all the water you use is mash water, none is sparge. All the salts would be stirred into the mash.
I think both are OK. No harm in adding epsom to the boil that I can tell.
According to the profile in the EZ calc, Munich is still on the bitter side of Cl:SO4, but not overly so. I think balanced to 1.25 would be good.
You can even go a step further by crafting additions that ONLY go into the boil and not in the mash but it starts getting really complicated. Just for example, what you if you need to get a ton of Ca and SO4 into the beer but your RA is already low enough for the mash? Right, gypsum into the boil only.
Hey Kal, I just noticed your little notes below your sulfate about 50-150 being normally bitter and up to 350 being really bitter. How's that range working for you?
I forget if I have read about that in Palmer or not.
It's something I've thought about asking you about but I wonder if the added complexity is worth the occasional use. One idea I had was to have two worksheets that are basically the same but one would be "basic" and one would be "advanced". Basic might be like the version previous to adding the radio buttons. Advanced might be having this explicit control over exactly how much salt you add to the mash and boil. In other words, the boil addition would be a field instead of a checkbox that drives calculation based on the boil entry. I personally, based on my water and the styles I brew, haven't had to do a boil/no mash type addition but after running many profiles from fellow HBT'ers, I can see the utility of it in some cases.
I think as you start looking at ultimate functionality, you start understanding why Palmer's sheet is a clusterF at first glance ;-)
right now one of the most common questions with the spreadsheet is when to include or not include salts in the boil.
Just so I get this straight. When you are referring to the "boil", that is the sparge water addition right? If I am no-sparge brewing, there is no need to actually add anything to the boil kettle is there? In other words, everything goes into the mash? I know this has been answered before, but it wasn't clear then either. Semantics? Boil=Sparge?
I do this already by typing the value directly into the 'Sparge Additions (add to boil)' row. I'm not sure you need to revise the spreadsheet.
Ok, I see now. I also don't see why I'd ever add chalk to the boil. Good point. I see now why you're given the option of splitting mash from boil. Makes sense to me!The two salts I regularly leave out of the boil are Chalk and Baking Soda. They are typically only good for raising RA for the mash pH. Also, if you need to use Gypsum and others to drastically lower RA, you'll likely get all the SO4 you'd need out of the mash addition so you wouldn't want to layer more on top for the boil.
I frankly can't remember where I read it either... I think it was in Palmer's book. (edit: oops - you guys already mentioned it!). I just cut and pasted it in there to give me some idea of what to aim for...Hey Kal, I just noticed your little notes below your sulfate about 50-150 being normally bitter and up to 350 being really bitter. How's that range working for you?
I forget if I have read about that in Palmer or not.
I'm probably going to splurge and drop $70 on a meter before my next batch because I'm less confident that the strips are good enough. Well, actually it's because I'm a gadget geek.
You have a situation where there's no harm in adding any of those salts to the boil since they are flavor affecting. Let's say you were adding a bunch of gypsum to the mash for Ca and SO4 additions but also for dropping the RA. Let's say by the time you add enough to get your RA down to where you need it, you already have enough or borderline too much Ca or SO4. That's when you'd think about leaving it out of the boil.
When you add a salt to the mash specifically, it's foremost about getting your pH correct.
You can even go a step further by crafting additions that ONLY go into the boil and not in the mash but it starts getting really complicated. Just for example, what you if you need to get a ton of Ca and SO4 into the beer but your RA is already low enough for the mash? Right, gypsum into the boil only.
Hmm, over-write the calculated sparge/boil addition huh. Face palm!
That works but the downside is that you have to remember you did that if you keep modifying the same file from batch to batch. I personally don't have any problem with modifying my local copy to clear out the formulas from those fields. I'll probably change the bg color to white so I remember that it's a user input field at that point.
Carry on, nothing to see here.
Can I hijack this thread? Or shall I start a new one?
Just got back my water report from Ward Labs and this is what I got:
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 60
Mg: 39
Na: 24
Cl: 21
SO4: 15
HCO3: 333
Total Hardness CaCO3: 313
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3: 273
pH: 7.8
RA (mash only): 207 (22 to 27 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 1.40 (Malty)
Looks good for darker beer, which I like, but I also like IPA's and such. I tried the dilution ratio but I had to get about 90% to get the mash RA where it needs to be. Any suggestions??
thanks in advance
Aaron
Did you watch the videos by Bobby M. That sure answered a lot of my questions. You will definately need some salt aditions to get to a light colored beer. The spreadsheet recommended is great! I just plugged in some numbers for salts until I got a reasonable result. I am very excited to try brewing a lighter beer now. They never turned out very well before.
Good Luck
Yes I have watched them, in fact i watched them again. It seems that I need to dilute my water first then add back, without having to add a bunch of salts. I'll go through it again later today and post what I think needs to happen and see what the brain trust has to say about that.
Aaron
My water is very low mineral and shows very malty unadjusted.
Ca: 2
Mg: 1.1
Na: 6.5
Cl: 8.4
SO4: 4.1
CaCO3: 11
Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 2 / 2
Mg: 3 / 3
Na: 7 / 7
Cl: 8 / 8
SO4: 11 / 11
CaCO3: 11 / 11
RA (mash only): 8 (6 to 11 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 0.73 (Bitter)
So I guess the question here is does the chloride to sulfate ratio pertain to the boil and not the mash, to just the mash, or both?
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