Water/German Pilsner/Acid Malt (yet another thread)

[vtfan99]

I see several threads recently about Pilsners, water, acid, and pH. I've done my best to read through them all before posting this thread but I am still hoping for some reassurances/input on my specific situation.

This is my first attempt to use Bru'n water and my first attempt to brew a German Pilsner. My recipe is pretty simple.

Batch Size = 10 gallons
21 lbs. German Pilsner (95.5%)
1 lb Acidulated Malt (4.5%)

WLP 830

I am going to do a Hochkurz infusion mash (30 at 145 and 40 at 158)

Here is the Water Report Input tab from Bru'n Water (water report from Ward labs)



The profile I am attempting to hit came from braukaiser's Pilsner water:

I am concerned about using too much acid malt and imparting off flavors. Is 4.8% ok or am I pushing the limits? With the 1lb my predicted mash pH is 5.55.

I could cut my water 1:1 with Distilled (RO isn't an option right now) to reduce some sodium and bicarbonate. That would allow me to add less acid malt to the bill (.75lbs) but I would have to add more salts.

Anything else I'm missing here? I have ignored my brewing water for the past 13 years and my beer has been ok but I have reached the point where I want to better understand and control this element of my brewing.

Any and all feedback is welcomed. I hope to brew this in the next few days. Thanks!

Here is the water adjustment tab is anyone is interested.

 

[eluterio]

Can you show the next tab with the malts?

 

[eluterio]

Ok there are some issues I see right away your total batch volume is at 6.0 gallons. With 16.5 gallons seems too high.

 

[eluterio]

your percentage of distilled water needs to read 50.

 

[eluterio]

if you want to match your desired profile of German Pilsner water to reach the 59 ca, 89 SO4, and 63 Cl your going to have to add a little bit more salts. As far as the % of acid malt you should be ok. If your still worried use lactic acid.

 

[vtfan99]

Thanks for the replies eluterio.

I didn't have the dilution percentage set to anything as I wasn't sure I wanted to go that route yet. I did adjust my total volume to 16.5, although I don't see where that actually affected any of the readings

I do need to adjust my salts a bit more although I read in another thread that lagers don't like Ca too high and that 20 ppm is a good value, despite the fact my target profile is 59.

Here is the grain bill tab:

 

[ajdelange]

You say you are shooting for a Boh Pils yet specify a profile that is quite hard and contains much more sulfate than is appropriate for this style (though would be OK for German Pils). Bohemian Pils is done with very low mineral content water and as such the easiest thing for a home brewer is to use straight RO/DI water with a little calcium chloride in it.

Yes, 4.5% sauermalz is a lot and would likely carry your pH to around 5.3 with a typical Pilsner malt and 100% RO/DI. Half that amount (0.5 lb) would do (pH 5.44 or so).

 

[vtfan99]

You say you are shooting for a Boh Pils yet specify a profile that is quite hard and contains much more sulfate than is appropriate for this style (though would be OK for German Pils). Bohemian Pils is done with very low mineral content water and as such the easiest thing for a home brewer is to use straight RO/DI water with a little calcium chloride in it.

Yes, 4.5% sauermalz is a lot and would likely carry your pH to around 5.3 with a typical Pilsner malt and 100% RO/DI. Half that amount (0.5 lb) would do (pH 5.44 or so).

I edited my original post to avoid the confusion. I am actually shooting for a German Pils.

 

[eluterio]

ok Ill share with you my experiences with using bru'n water profiler and brewing lagers. The one time I used an actual ph meter and compared it to bru'n waters predicted it was spot on. Since then I have just go by what it tells me. I think your mashing volumes is too high and seems like a really thin mash that pushing 2 or 3 qt per pound. If you can reduce that to 1.5qt per lbs your ph should decrease. My bo pils I just finished up had about the same % of acid malt as yours but my mash was 1.5qt per lbs of grain.

 

[vtfan99]

ok Ill share with you my experiences with using bru'n water profiler and brewing lagers. The one time I used an actual ph meter and compared it to bru'n waters predicted it was spot on. Since then I have just go by what it tells me. I think your mashing volumes is too high and seems like a really thin mash that pushing 2 or 3 qt per pound. If you can reduce that to 1.5qt per lbs your ph should decrease. My bo pils I just finished up had about the same % of acid malt as yours but my mash was 1.5qt per lbs of grain.

That's where the Hochkurz mash comes in. 1.25 qt /lb at first step, then infuse with high temp water to raise total mash to 2 qt/lb for second step. What I've read said that these ratios were good for this mash profile. If I dropped them to 1 qt/lb and then 1.5 qt/lb, would I still be getting the benefits of the Hochkurz? Or am I better off just doing a single infusion at 148 and 1.5 qt/ lb?

 

[eluterio]

That's where the Hochkurz mash comes in. 1.25 qt /lb at first step, then infuse with high temp water to raise total mash to 2 qt/lb for second step. What I've read said that these ratios were good for this mash profile. If I dropped them to 1 qt/lb and then 1.5 qt/lb, would I still be getting the benefits of the Hochkurz? Or am I better off just doing a single infusion at 148 and 1.5 qt/ lb?

Good question since I don't mash that way I really don't know. So your first mash setting is set to where? Cause I think this can play a bigger impact on the fourth tab. Since most of the mash will be at a 1.25 qt/lb I would put that amount there and see what your ph will read. I think the other amount after 30 mins wont effect it much at ph is concerned. When calculating the minerals for you 10.5 gallons I would do that in your HLT and move over your first volume. Does this make sense???

 

[ajdelange]

I edited my original post to avoid the confusion. I am actually shooting for a German Pils.

That actually makes it bit trickier. You can get within 1% of each of the stated ion concentrations by adding the following to each L of the water being treated (in mg)
CaCl2.0H2O 23.46
CaSO4.2H20 100.87
MgSO4.7H20 76.11
Ca(OH)2 48.14
K2CO3 0.00
Lactic Acid 272.1660

You will indeed need about a pound of sauermalz for this in order to provide the lactic acid necessary to neutralize the water (21 mEq), the amount necessary to neutralize the base malt (154) and the rest to neutralize the lime you put in to supply calcium without upsetting the chloride or sulfate targets (39.4). This covers the lactic acid requirement above so don't add lactic acid and a pound of sauermalz.