Water Chemistry - Additions Check

[DanMyers]

Hi, I am new to mineral additions, although i do have a strong science background. I typically use local spring water and do not add any minerals. I produce good beer, that said i would like to start adding minerals in hopes of improving my beer. I am entering this beer in a comp so its probably not the best time to try out additions but oh well. I do not have access to the local springs minerals, therefore i will not be using it. I do have access to my tap water report but I do not have campden tablets on hand (Tap water will liketey serve as my base for future batches.

Thus with 100% RO water, using the EZ water calculator and an online source I have determined that I should add

~10 gal of RO Water
13 g of Gypsum
4 g of Calcium Chloride
and
8 g of Epsom Salts
2 grams of Baking Soda.

This results in a mineral profile quite similar to Randy Mosher Ideal Pale Ale. The EZ calculator states my ph should be good (5.55) I understand I should treat my full volume of water, however I am skeptical as i do not have a ph meter.

Any glaring issues? otherwise I feel moderately comfortable proceeding.

 

[ajdelange]

The only thing that is eyebrow raising is the addition of baking soda which is alkaline to the water. This would raise the pH a bit but as there is not much of it (only 2 g in 10 gal) it wouldn't have that disastrous an effect. But it will push your pH in the wrong direction so why bother with it?

We also might question a sulfate level this high for an initial attempt at water synthesis. It might be much more practical to start off with an appreciably lower level of sulfate and then experiment with gypsum additions to the finished beer to see if a higher level of sulfate is warranted vis - a vis your palate. If, however, you already know that you like sulfate then go ahead with the higher level.

In this same regard the epsom salts only add more sulfate and are probably not needed. Again, if you know what magnesium does and are seeking its effects (generally considered flavor negative) then go ahead with it.

 

[caps_phisto]

The only thing that is eyebrow raising is the addition of baking soda which is alkaline to the water. This would raise the pH a bit but as there is not much of it (only 2 g in 10 gal) it wouldn't have that disastrous an effect. But it will push your pH in the wrong direction so why bother with it?

We also might question a sulfate level this high for an initial attempt at water synthesis. It might be much more practical to start off with an appreciably lower level of sulfate and then experiment with gypsum additions to the finished beer to see if a higher level of sulfate is warranted vis - a vis your palate. If, however, you already know that you like sulfate then go ahead with the higher level.

In this same regard the epsom salts only add more sulfate and are probably not needed. Again, if you know what magnesium does and are seeking its effects (generally considered flavor negative) then go ahead with it.

Baking Soda's Chemical Formula is: NaHCO3

Or Sodium Bicarbonate.

Granted it will add to the pH, but it is a good source of Sodium to meet a specific concentration without adding Sodium Chloride (NaCl, table salt), which would push the pH in the other direction.

Epsom Salt's Chemical Formula is: MgSO4

Or Magnesium Sulfate.

Yes it adds more sulfate than Magnesium, but it is the only way for us to get Magnesium in our wort.

Additionaly Magnesium should be safe in concentrations of 30ppm or less. 5ppm promotes yeast flocculation (settling of yeast).

Finally, the ratio of SO04 to Cl (Sulfate to Chloride) helps accentuate Malty versus Bitter flavors in the finished beer.

Take Sulfate ppm value and divide by the Chloride ppm value. If the value is 1.2 or lower, the beer will have a better malty profile. If the value is 1.3 the flavors will be fairly balanced. If it is over 1.4 it will lean to bitter. 2.0 is very bitter and great for IPAs and DIPAs

 

[caps_phisto]

Hi, I am new to mineral additions, although i do have a strong science background. I typically use local spring water and do not add any minerals. I produce good beer, that said i would like to start adding minerals in hopes of improving my beer. I am entering this beer in a comp so its probably not the best time to try out additions but oh well. I do not have access to the local springs minerals, therefore i will not be using it. I do have access to my tap water report but I do not have campden tablets on hand (Tap water will liketey serve as my base for future batches.

Thus with 100% RO water, using the EZ water calculator and an online source I have determined that I should add

~10 gal of RO Water
13 g of Gypsum
4 g of Calcium Chloride
and
8 g of Epsom Salts
2 grams of Baking Soda.

This results in a mineral profile quite similar to Randy Mosher Ideal Pale Ale. The EZ calculator states my ph should be good (5.55) I understand I should treat my full volume of water, however I am skeptical as i do not have a ph meter.

Any glaring issues? otherwise I feel moderately comfortable proceeding.

When I am building a profile I usually use Distilled as then I don't need to work about any remainin bicarbonates in the water. RO doesn't remove those.

I would highly suggest getting a pH meter as I have found both EZ Water and Brewin' Water can be off +/- 0.1-0.2 pH. This usually depends on roasted grains that have a variable Lovibond value.

A very cheap and accurate pH meter is: Milwaukee Instruments pH600AQ

Amazon has it for about $22.

The only downside is that the mash needs to be under 100F, or the sample needs to be under 100F for accurate readings.

 

[ajdelange]

Baking Soda's... will add to the pH, but it is a good source of Sodium to meet a specific concentration without adding Sodium Chloride (NaCl, table salt), which would push the pH in the other direction.

Sodium chloride is a neutral salt (salt of a strong base and strong acid). It will not cause an appreciable pH shift.

Yes it adds more sulfate than Magnesium, but it is the only way for us to get Magnesium in our wort.

Malt contains a lot of magnesium. There is no need to add any and it lends a sour bitter flavor to beer. This is part of the profile of some beers so if you want that you can supplement magnesium but there is no need to do so for the sake of its enzyme co factor role.

Finally, the ratio of SO04 to Cl (Sulfate to Chloride) helps accentuate Malty versus Bitter flavors in the finished beer.

Take Sulfate ppm value and divide by the Chloride ppm value. If the value is 1.2 or lower, the beer will have a better malty profile. If the value is 1.3 the flavors will be fairly balanced. If it is over 1.4 it will lean to bitter. 2.0 is very bitter and great for IPAs and DIPAs

This is pretty much nonsense. Whether you specify a chloride level and a ratio or a chloride level and a sulfate level you have two degrees of freedom. A beer made with 1 ppm each of sulfate and chloride is not at all like one made with 100 ppm of each. Brewers would be advised to forget that they ever heard about chloride/sulfate ratio, learn what the effects of each are and adjust their beers for best flavor WRT each.

 

[ajdelange]

When I am building a profile I usually use Distilled as then I don't need to work about any remainin bicarbonates in the water. RO doesn't remove those.

RO does indeed remove bicarbonate. Why wouldn't it? If the TDS meter reads 3 ppm (granted that this is an approximation to the actual TDS) it means that the sum of the ion contents is 3 ppm. Bicarbonate has, therefore, to be less than that.

I would highly suggest getting a pH meter as I have found both EZ Water and Brewin' Water can be off +/- 0.1-0.2 pH. This usually depends on roasted grains that have a variable Lovibond value.

The errors from spreadsheets and calculators come from the fact that the malts, all the malts, are not modeled robustly. There can, because of the various levels of color in higher kilned malts, be quite a bit of variability in the roast malts but there can be quite a lot in base malts too. Weyermann's 'Pils' for example, has a DI mash pH of about 5.6 for the pneumatic and 5.8 for the floor malted varieties.

A very cheap and accurate pH meter is: Milwaukee Instruments pH600AQ

Amazon has it for about $22.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. This little toy has resolution of one digit which means that its accuracy cannot possibly be better than 0.1/sqrt(12) = 0.03 pH but that is just the quantization 'noise' averaged over all possible readings. In fact the manufacturer's own spec says that its accuracy (from errors other than quantization) is 0.1 pH. This means that such an 'instrument' is totally unsuited for measurement where we wish to detect changes of 0.1 pH and less. Beyond that it is an analogue meter which implies no ATC nor is there any indication that temperature compensation is possible so that buffer and sample must be at the same temperature and finally it is only capable of 1 point calibration.

A good pH meter is an important part of the brewers kit and any serious brewer should be prepared to spend about $120 to aquire one that will allow measurements to the sub 0.05 pH level (a specified accuracy of 0.01 using dual point temperature compensated calibration with ±0.02 buffers at 7 and 4). There are a couple of these now available. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/

I have given several reasons why this meter is unsuitable for brewing but if anyone is still tempted by the low price I would suggest reading the reviews on the Amazon site.