Was my ball valve a waste?

[anmldr]

I just finished a IIPA with 1 pound of hops. I did not use a hop sock however a Hop Spider may be in the near future. I just got a new Bayou 16 gallon brewpot with thermometer and Ball valve. I set up a pick up on the interior using a 90 degree elbow attached to at 3/8" nipple. Set it up so it is at a 45% angle and the tip of the nipple touches the bottom of the pot.

I tried to run the wort from the ball valve to the carboy but it wasn't moving. So I used the autosiphon to transfer. I did try to do a manual whirlpool. When I got to the bottom from the transfer there was a ton of trub covering the whole bottom of the the kettle at least an inch over the ball valve.

I know I should try and get the kettle much higher to help with the transfer and will do that next time, but am I missing something else.

Should I not worry about the trub making it into the fermentor?? If so should I remove the elbow and nipple.

Has anyone thought about just having teh 1/2 inch opening and putting a small piece of voile cloth over the coupler and secure it with an heat resistant O-ring?

Should I just get use to using the auto-siphon and consider the valve as a little extra bling on my pot that does not really serve a purpose?

I did a batch of Samuel Smith Nut brown ale with very little hop additions and still had a large amount of trub at the bottom of the kettle. I know using a hop bag will cut down on some, but still want advice on how to use the valve.

 

[thadass]

An IIPA with 1# of hops might not be the best measure for a ball valve's function. They make specialty products like the Blichmann HopBlocker to help clogs in this kind of situation (or the hop spider kind of thing like you mention).

As far as the brown ale with the same level of trub, is it hop material or cold break/etc kind of trub? How are you mashing, BIAB, cooler, something else? Are you using irish moss or whirlfloc in the boil?

 

[anmldr]

It's hop material and hot/cold break. I mash full volume biab. 75 Mash at 152, 15 min rise included to 170. Pull bag squeeze. Then 90 min boil. I have an immersion chiller , however my last three batches have chilled overnight and I transfer the next day.

 

[CA_Mouse]

This may sound like a simple question... Do you have a False Bottom or a Kettle Screen? If not, then the trub and hop matter will clog the elbow very quickly.

 

[anmldr]

Will a false bottom hold hop and break material. Bayou has a false bottom specifically for this pot I just didn't get thinking I wouldn't need it. I could also build a screen again I did not think it would be needed for BIAB.

How are others using there ball valve do you use a false bottom or kettle screen? (I take it the kettle screen is the SS hook up I put in the bottom of my 10 gallon cooler mash tun?

 

[Slow_Day]

No need to filter the hot and cold break from your fermenter. This will settle out. Those that use counterflow or plate chillers have no way of preventing cold break transfer.

Irish moss and post fermentation crash cooling are more effective tools for achieving clear beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

No, a false bottom will not help. You need to bag hop bills this large, period.

 

[anmldr]

When doing BIAB, does anyone use a kettle screen or false bottom? Or is it not needed? If you are using your ball valve are you trying to limit the amount if trub making it to the fermentor. The last batch had 2 gallons of trub which
Would have overfilled my carboy.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

No, a false bottom will not help. You need to bag hop bills this large, period.

That's only true with pellets. He could use two pounds of whole hop cones with the Bayou false bottom and it will not clog. I've used a false bottom with whole hop cones pretty much since I moved to full volume boils over twenty years and several hundred batches ago. The only downside to this approach is that whole cones can retain a significant amount of wort, which is a problem in keg-based kettles because the false bottom sits below the ball valve; therefore, the pickup tube loses suction before the hop bed is fully drained. The Bayou kettle is the like American-made PolarWare kettle in that the false bottom sits above the ball value; therefore, the design is not dependent on suction to drain the hop bed. Gravity will take care of most of the wort retention problem (there is a significant amount of dead space under the false bottom). The wort that remains in the hop bed after gravity has done its thing can be pressed out using a sanitized spoon or left in the kettle with the break.

 

[Carlscan26]

When doing BIAB, does anyone use a kettle screen or false bottom? Or is it not needed? If you are using your ball valve are you trying to limit the amount if trub making it to the fermentor. The last batch had 2 gallons of trub which
Would have overfilled my carboy.

Turn your elbow so it's not quite so low and will leave some/all of the trub behind.

What size batches are you making that 2 gals would have been trub?

 

[anmldr]

It was the Dreamhopburst IIPA from northern brewer. I may have exaggerated a little on the amount. But the trub was high enough that it covered the internal components of the ball valve completely.

 

[anmldr]

It was a 5 gallon batch

 

[thadass]

According to the recipe : http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-115thDream.pdf
This indeed does have 1lb of hops.

 

[Jaybird]

I just finished a IIPA with 1 pound of hops. I did not use a hop sock however a Hop Spider may be in the near future. I just got a new Bayou 16 gallon brewpot with thermometer and Ball valve. I set up a pick up on the interior using a 90 degree elbow attached to at 3/8" nipple. Set it up so it is at a 45% angle and the tip of the nipple touches the bottom of the pot.

I tried to run the wort from the ball valve to the carboy but it wasn't moving. So I used the autosiphon to transfer. I did try to do a manual whirlpool. When I got to the bottom from the transfer there was a ton of trub covering the whole bottom of the the kettle at least an inch over the ball valve.

I know I should try and get the kettle much higher to help with the transfer and will do that next time, but am I missing something else.

Should I not worry about the trub making it into the fermentor?? If so should I remove the elbow and nipple.

Has anyone thought about just having teh 1/2 inch opening and putting a small piece of voile cloth over the coupler and secure it with an heat resistant O-ring?

Should I just get use to using the auto-siphon and consider the valve as a little extra bling on my pot that does not really serve a purpose?

I did a batch of Samuel Smith Nut brown ale with very little hop additions and still had a large amount of trub at the bottom of the kettle. I know using a hop bag will cut down on some, but still want advice on how to use the valve.

There are several pieces of equipment you can use to your advantage. Your kettle has a great design and with the sheer diameter of the kettle you get a massive amount of surface area. A hop bill like this is a breeze! Most people that want to toss the hops into the kettle will be using a full false bottom or a separate whirlpool kettle like the big boys. If the stand is designed correctly to allow proper flow while creating extra filtration then toss in as many hops as you want, volume will not be a factor. You may have to assist it a little but hay your playing with a hop bill to volume ratio that would scare most people! Your kettle has a 15 1/2" diameter (going off memory here my notes are at the fab shop) that is PLENTY of area to assist filtration of 16 oz of hops. The rest can come form the stand (if built right)
Yes you can bag your hops or use a hop spider. Both will help but do have there downfalls as well. The biggest downfall to a properly designed false bottom system cost.

But to answer some of your original questions You will have to do something to protect your valve from clogging. You have a boatload of options from a simple as a stainless scrubby to as crazy as a full custom false bottom system with massive amounts of filtration.
Some trub going to the fermenter is not a huge issue.
You have a nice kettle system! You don't have to siphon or bag for fear of the ball valve plugging.

No, a false bottom will not help. You need to bag hop bills this large, period.

I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. Maybe in a kettle with much less area Bobby but this kettle has a massive footprint and being a flat bottom kettle a well designed stand will facilitate even more surface area of filtration. Bring on the HOPS!!

Cheers
Jay

 

[anmldr]

What would you recommend, say price was not a concern. In terms of stand I have a burner that is 13-16" off the ground.

As for internal parts what would give me the best and easiest way to transfer to the fermentor. Keeping in mind I have gone to BIAB b/c it is faster and allows me more time to spend with the kids.

I was quite irritated that I had to stand holding the siphon, stopping numerous times to get my 2 year old off of counters and stop him from buying/pinching his sister. I was looking forward to opening the valve drinking coffee and also tormenting my daughter with him.

 

[Jaybird]

What would you recommend, say price was not a concern. In terms of stand I have a burner that is 13-16" off the ground.

As for internal parts what would give me the best and easiest way to transfer to the fermentor. Keeping in mind I have gone to BIAB b/c it is faster and allows me more time to spend with the kids.

I was quite irritated that I had to stand holding the siphon, stopping numerous times to get my 2 year old off of counters and stop him from buying/pinching his sister. I was looking forward to opening the valve drinking coffee and also tormenting my daughter with him.

A 15.5" hinged false bottom with a 2" stand to keep the false bottom above the valve. The false bottom will stop about 75-80% of the hops and let the stand do the rest. the hinge is needed because the ring around the inside of your kettle. Although Bayou classic does have 3 variations of that kettle. Ring on top, ring on bottom and no ring. So depending on if you have the straight wall one you can get away from the hinge.

Cheers
Jay

 

[anmldr]

Bayou has a false bottom that is applicable to the pot. It is 3.25" tall. Any thoughts on it? My kettle is straight sided except at the 3.25 mark where the false bottom they make would sit.

What would you have on the internal aspect of the ball valve? A bazooka screen; side pick up??

I think I've seen your name thrown around for custom false bottoms do you have one you would recommend. Feel free to PM me with any options.

Thanks

 

[jCOSbrew]

That fitting on the elbow looks like it would significantly reduce pump flow even without hops and break material. I would remove it so you have a 1/2" port instead of a 1/4" one.

Paint strainer bags are a $2 solution to filter the hop pellets.

 

[Epimetheus]

I would use 2 or more hop bags for a pound of hops (paint strainers or other). Personal preference instead of a false bottom.

Yes, that barbed port is quite a restriction, about 1/4 of the possible flow. If you are concerned about the elbow not reaching the bottom, you could replace the barb with a close nipple and grind it shorter until the elbow could point straight down.

 

[stpug]

I just finished a IIPA with 1 pound of hops. I did not use a hop sock however a Hop Spider may be in the near future. I just got a new Bayou 16 gallon brewpot with thermometer and Ball valve. I set up a pick up on the interior using a 90 degree elbow attached to at 3/8" nipple. Set it up so it is at a 45% angle and the tip of the nipple touches the bottom of the pot.

I tried to run the wort from the ball valve to the carboy but it wasn't moving. So I used the autosiphon to transfer. I did try to do a manual whirlpool. When I got to the bottom from the transfer there was a ton of trub covering the whole bottom of the the kettle at least an inch over the ball valve.

I know I should try and get the kettle much higher to help with the transfer and will do that next time, but am I missing something else.

Should I not worry about the trub making it into the fermentor?? If so should I remove the elbow and nipple.

Has anyone thought about just having teh 1/2 inch opening and putting a small piece of voile cloth over the coupler and secure it with an heat resistant O-ring?

Should I just get use to using the auto-siphon and consider the valve as a little extra bling on my pot that does not really serve a purpose?

I did a batch of Samuel Smith Nut brown ale with very little hop additions and still had a large amount of trub at the bottom of the kettle. I know using a hop bag will cut down on some, but still want advice on how to use the valve.

Your issues this time are strictly a system-dependent issue, and as you work through more and more batches you'll figure out what works best for your system and budget.

False bottoms are a good choice in certain circumstances while hop spiders are a good choice in others. I don't believe there is a best of both words solution to using lots of hops, particularly when you take into consideration your system (chilling method, wort moving method, etc).

Not to mention, most folks have found that they prefer a specific form (pellet vs leaf) of hops because it works better with their system. Or, they have found that they have to implement different filtering devices based on the form and quantity of hops they'll be using.

My personal recommendation would be to simply brew a few more batches and dial-in your system/process with your new equipment to better determine what form of filtration works best for you - keeping in mind your future process as well. For instance, if you foresee a plate chiller in your future then you need to know it's limitations and plan for it; same thing with a pump.

 

[ArcLight]

Take a look at this:

http://arborfab.com/ocart/

take a look at the: 6" x 14" 300 micron Hop filter

chads454 is a member, you can contact him.

 

[ilikeguns]

i have a similar problem.. siphoning sucks. I've never actually tried to use my dip tube (5/8" OD) because i didn't want to suck up the hops (i use alot) and the break material. I use whirfloc and it makes the break very fluffy too.

My next batch I'm going to use two paint strainer bags.. one for the hops, and then other sterilized in my fermenting bucket to catch the break material.

 

[1MadScientist]

There are several pieces of equipment you can use to your advantage. Your kettle has a great design and with the sheer diameter of the kettle you get a massive amount of surface area. A hop bill like this is a breeze! Most people that want to toss the hops into the kettle will be using a full false bottom or a separate whirlpool kettle like the big boys. If the stand is designed correctly to allow proper flow while creating extra filtration then toss in as many hops as you want, volume will not be a factor. You may have to assist it a little but hay your playing with a hop bill to volume ratio that would scare most people! Your kettle has a 15 1/2" diameter (going off memory here my notes are at the fab shop) that is PLENTY of area to assist filtration of 16 oz of hops. The rest can come form the stand (if built right)
Yes you can bag your hops or use a hop spider. Both will help but do have there downfalls as well. The biggest downfall to a properly designed false bottom system cost.

But to answer some of your original questions You will have to do something to protect your valve from clogging. You have a boatload of options from a simple as a stainless scrubby to as crazy as a full custom false bottom system with massive amounts of filtration.
Some trub going to the fermenter is not a huge issue.
You have a nice kettle system! You don't have to siphon or bag for fear of the ball valve plugging.



I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. Maybe in a kettle with much less area Bobby but this kettle has a massive footprint and being a flat bottom kettle a well designed stand will facilitate even more surface area of filtration. Bring on the HOPS!!

Cheers
Jay

A question for you Jay.

These pictures below are with your false bottom and LEVEL 3 FILTER STAND.

I had clogging with 1 pound of pellet hops. First 4 gallons drained okay, but last 6 gallons didn't. I disagree with your statement.

7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr


7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr


7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr

 

[Jaybird]

A question for you Jay.

These pictures below are with your false bottom and LEVEL 3 FILTER STAND.

I had clogging with 1 pound of pellet hops. First 4 gallons drained okay, but last 6 gallons didn't. I disagree with your statement.

7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr


7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr


7/12/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr

Nice looking hop bed! Love it!
You may have to cut through the bed from time to time with your paddle when flow slows a little. I do it all the time without issue in my kettle. Starting from the outside in all I do is small movements in the bed and it drains like crazy. the other thing the OP will have going for him is the (aprox) extra 23 cubic inches of surface area just on the false bottom alone.

Cheers
Jay

 

[anmldr]

Alright guys, so picked up a false bottom and added a bazooka tube. Also using a hop spider.

I brewed a Lagunitas IPA yesterday. Let it cool overnight and transferred to the fermentor tonight. I noticed the false bottom had a nice filter bed of trub on top, but a lot made it through to the fermentor as well. As you can see on the bottom of the carboy in the picture. I still have not pitched, b/c the to got low and I have to let it come back up to temp. Would it be beneficial or does any ob else recirculate the wort to get the break that is below the false bottom back on top before transferring?

My goal is not to discuss the benefits of quickly cooling down using an immersion chiller. I bought 60' of copper made one hell of a chiller but when the false bottom is in very little of the chiller is submerged in the wort so u gave up on using i. I could reconfigure the copper but at tis point I have slow chilled 5 batches and feel they taste the same if not better than the ones I have quickly chilled.

Thanks in advance