Was it one or all of the changes?

[GrizlyGarou]

I decided I'd redo an APA that I made a few rounds back. Armed with my ingredient list, I went to my LHBS. I told the nice man what I was looking for, and he told me he didn't have that LME, but had DME would work. He didn't have the right yeast, either. Something about a guy that buys all his brewing supplies for the whole year in one visit that didn't call him ahead of time this year was the reason. So, instead of wyeast 1272 dry yeast I got the smack-pack equivalent (I have it written down in my brew notebook which isn't close to me right now...), and instead of the 5.5# of muntons light LME and a pound of wheat LME, I got 6# of muntons light DME. By some act of god, he had the right hops and grains to steep...

That's where the changes begin. I brewed it all up, put it in primary, and a week later, I realized I didn't have any empty fermenters to put it into. So, I just dry-hopped it in the primary, with the intention of bottling it a week later (yes, I know the 1-2-3 rule, but that's what the recipe was originally, so I figured I'd try to do something the same as the first round...)

A week passes, and I don't have the time to bottle it. It sat for 13 days dry-hopping as opposed to 7 on the first batch. When I bottled it, I checked the gravity, and it was where it should have been. But, when I drank the sample, it tasted a whole lot better than the original's sample tasted prior to bottling. The first round tasted kind of like christmas tree broth, and this batch is much more pleasant and sweet, but not overly sweet. I'd even go so far as to call it delicious, for flat and green anyway.

So, my question is, which of the changes made the biggest contribution to my uncarbonated, unconditioned beer tasting much better than the last time, or is it too many changes to pin it down? I want to learn as much about making delicious beer as possible, and it's much easier and faster to ask questions than it is to mess around with gallons of beer that could have been better if I just asked my questions instead of throwing on the Mad Scientist Goggles...

 

[Loup]

Well, using DME rather than LME could have improved it. Old LME gives your beer a slightly off taste. Also, leaving it on the yeast bed longer gives the yeast more time to clean up the beer.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Isn't DME more concentrated than LME too? You'll have a higher gravity on this beer.

How are your temperatures now compared to then?

the yeast could have contributed something too. Leaving it in primary longer is usually a good idea.

the only criticism I have is that you dry hopped a bit early and with the fermentation still that early on, there could have been some off-gassing that can make the dry hop less effective. I think you're fine though.

 

[Loup]

Isn't DME more concentrated than LME too?

Yes, 6lbs of DME is equivalent to 7.5lbs of LME. To get the correct equivalent amount of DME he would have needed to use 4.4lbs of DME

 

[carnevoodoo]

Yes, 6lbs of DME is equivalent to 7.5lbs of LME. To get the correct equivalent amount of DME he would have needed to use 4.4lbs of DME

That's what I thought. I only ever did like 3 or 4 extract batches and it was with DME. I knew it was like LME is .6 of AG, and DME is like .75 of AG? Something like that? I know there's a conversion table somewhere.

 

[ifishsum]

I knew it was like LME is .6 of AG, and DME is like .75 of AG? Something like that? I know there's a conversion table somewhere.

Actually, it's 1# grain = .75 lb LME = .6 lb DME

 

[GrizlyGarou]

I just drank three of them flat, here's my take on it...

There's less hop in the nose for sure. I might wait next time to dry-hop. perhaps swap the 13 days pre-hop (would have been primary into secondary before I dry-hopped had I not been so distracted) for 7 before dry-hopping. I like ot smell hops, but there really isn't that much hop flavor yet. I shouldn't complain when I drink flat beer, though...

All the gravities were within two points of the previous round, so I'm thinking it was more the time sitting than the ingredients. The sweetness isn't more than I like, but I'm not sure if I've just accepted the dreaded 'Extract Twang' or never experienced it or not. LHBS-guy said they go through a lot of LME quick and doubts I'd notice any difference in the flavor, but maybe that's part of it. I do hate the stirring-in of the DME, so I'm not sure if I'd be willing to change that. AG isn't an option quite yet, perhaps I could time it around my schedule and feed horses while it sparged through or something.

The temperature was consistent last batch with this batch. The basement is within 4 degrees August or February, so that wasn't it. 66 on the stick-on ferm-o-meter during active ferment, then 63 when the krausen dropped and that held steady for a day before I dry-hopped both times.

Next time I think I'll go for two weeks primary, rack, dry-hop then bottle after a week. I think I did lose a lot with the time between dry-hopping and bottling.

So do you guys think I should dump it? I can't even type that with a straight face! I have every intention of drinking it, but dry-hopping needs to be cared for carefully. I may have just wasted some hops by being busy... Oh well, I'll just brew something less hoppy next time to make up for it.

I've learned to leave things in primary longer, dry-hop later (and make time for my yeasty-beasties!), and ask questions. Future brews will be better, and the ones I have now aren't going to get any worse. Yay beer!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

GrizlyGarou - DME gives less of an "LME twange" that you read a lot about here.
More time on the yeast always helps. I'm still trying to remember that.
Dry hopping is fine in primary as long as active fermentation is completed. IE, IE: no bubbles, no fluid moving and the beer is clearing.
Then depending on the hops you want 4-10 days of dry hoping. I prefer to dry hop in this fashion, rack to secondary, wait a week+, then crash cool to maximize clearness and slow me down from drinking it all.
Drinking any green beer is just an exercise on learning how bad it is and being able to recognize it. Don't judge your beer by it, It's kind of like judging a 8 year old kid. (Heck I'll be dead if that happened).