WARNING: Plastic buckets are not safe

[AnOldUR]

I just drank a beer brewed in plastic... Am I going to die?

Yes.



Your husband shoots you when he finds you sleeping with your brew partner.

 

[BobbiLynn]

Yes.



Your husband shoots you when he finds you sleeping with your brew partner.

Not even sure how he found out about that. Death is imminent.

 

[slohsandt]

Zbouri? Did you really make two usernames to troll a homebrew forum?

Do you even know what you are talking about and who the hell is Zbouri? Lol

 

[lumpher]

step away from this thread with your hands on your beer mug.!!! do it NOW!!!

 

[slohsandt]

http://www.epa.gov/endocrine/

 

[GeorgiaTiger]

But if you let an actively fermenting alcoholic beverage sit in ANY plastic bucket for a week, it is quite likely you will be drinking estrogen-mimicking plastics.

Kinda like drinking a Zima

 

[richlong8020]

Well considering margarine is chemically one molecule away from being plastic, do I have to stop eating that too.

 

[thadius856]

Well considering margarine is chemically one molecule away from being plastic, do I have to stop eating that too.

Don't stop eating margarine because it's almost plastic. Stop eating margarine because butter tastes so ****ing much better. Pony up the extra $2 a month.

Support farmers. Support cows. Support taste.(C)(TM)(R)

 

[brewguyver]

So, still no link to the study. I smell a troll.

At the least it's dredging up an oft debated topic.

Let's talk about the dangers of glass...

I think he works for Chewlies, and he's stirring up this anti-bucket sentiment so that people brew less and buy gum more.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Yup! Paranoia strikes the brewing world!


Crap, guys! I've worked with pesticides professionally for 40 damn years and I've been watching the government check and double check and triple check everything we or the manufacturers do. And there's not one thing made or sold in this country that doesn't have some government agency checking to make sure it is absolutely safe. You got any idea how many billions of dollars are spent by the government and by the manufacturers trying to make sure idiots like you and me can live in a cocoon of complete safety guaranteed by the US government (funded by he US taxpayer) ? What always seems to stir the pot is some group of out-of-work Berkeley grads using their degrees to leverage some credibility. And believe me, these clowns are usually far less concerned with honest science than they are with getting some attention and government money.

Like a previous poster said, I'm a heck of a lot more concerned about hurting my back lifting a 55# glass carboy than I am worried about plastic buckets. If there ends up actually being some for-real issue with these buckets you can bet your bippy that there will be a bunch of ambulance-chasing vultures with law degrees making the manufacturers sorry they made the things. (And I don't suppose the manufacturers are aware of that right now?).

 

[tommyguner03]

why am i wasting my time reading about this?? ... lets just call it a .. plastic reach around

 

[temple240]

Do you even know what you are talking about and who the hell is Zbouri? Lol

The op, did you even read the first post? You've missed the point entirely. The thread wasn't about the definition of EDs it was about an unsubstantiated claim that plastics leach dangerous levels of them.

Don't take it so seriously, it's just beer!

 

[wilserbrewer]

My friend who works as a birth assistant has seen a huge increase in birth defects, attributed by the doctors at her hospital to endocrine disruptors in our environment.

So yeah, I'm a little concerned.

Thanks for telling us what a "birth assistant" friend of yours may or may not have overheard. This is like saying I have a friend who empties the trash at the nuke plant and is regurgitating comments from the nuclear scientists. I'll take my information directly from those with 3 letters after their names, PHD, thanks!

My friend the birth assistant....please....really?

Not that there is anything wrong with being a birth assistant, but to take endocrine disruptor information from one is silly!

 

[unionrdr]

Not so much that,but it's just the Dr's opinion,who is not a scientist.

 

[Denny]

Besides, hippies hate science

wrong.

 

[slohsandt]

So many fail trolls that only pick out little unimportant items and refuse to see the big picture or look at facts. Just go to the EPA website if you want more info on the subject. Until you have something useful to say without being a dick, I will continue to brew in glass and have healthy offspring.

 

[pabloj13]

So many fail trolls that only pick out little unimportant items and refuse to see the big picture or look at facts. Just go to the EPA website if you want more info on the subject. Until you have something useful to say without being a dick, I will continue to brew in glass and have healthy offspring.

That's rich.

 

[MalFet]

So many fail trolls that only pick out little unimportant items and refuse to see the big picture or look at facts. Just go to the EPA website if you want more info on the subject. Until you have something useful to say without being a dick, I will continue to brew in glass and have healthy offspring.

Not if your wingwang gets cut off by the exploding shards of said glass.

 

[Ondori]

Better not be true, I just dumped money into Better Bottles.. lol I love those things.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I was just shocked and scared about all this talk about homebrewing giving you ED. Well, at least they have a pill for that...

 

[wormser]

I just bought a plastic bucket from brew and grow. Should I switch to glass? I just thought the bucket would be easier to clean....as long as I don't scratch it

 

[Erroneous]

I just bought a plastic bucket from brew and grow. Should I switch to glass? I just thought the bucket would be easier to clean....as long as I don't scratch it

If you believe the potentially minute amount of ED's warrants using glass which has been known to seriously injure people on this forum due to the fact that they can explode if not set down just right it if they have an undetectable defect, then by all means. You could also get milk creates if you're worried about that.

Personally I'm going to find a used 1/4 or 1/6 barrel keg to use as my next primary.

 

[BobbiLynn]

I just drank another beer that was fermented in plastic? What are my chances now? Will my boobs get bigger?

 

[millsware]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've done a significant amount of study in the field of endocrine disruption.

1) Endocrine disruption is a real thing. However, like carcinogens, it is very rarely directly traceable. It is almost impossible to say Symptom A was caused by Compound B, etc.

2) Plastics are loaded with endocrine disrupting compounds. We've struggled with this problem for some samples we tried to have analyzed for estrogens. All of our samples including blanks came back extremely high and we traced it back to the plastic bottle the ethanol was stored in and the rubber tubing (same as in siphoning for homebrewing) that we used.

3) Endocrine disruption is much more dangerous for developing infants and children, so the people that would be most affected (kids and pregnant women) shouldn't really be drinking anyway. For grown men not interested in reproduction the effects will probably be almost nil, except these compounds are sometimes linked to cancer.

4) The argument that most of our food is already in plastic so it must be safe is ridiculous. Endocrine disruption is a relatively young field, and regulation is extremely slow. My house still has lead paint, does that mean it is safe?

If people are interested, I have access to many journals and can find specific articles.

 

[Denny]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've done a significant amount of study in the field of endocrine disruption.

1) Endocrine disruption is a real thing. However, like carcinogens, it is very rarely directly traceable. It is almost impossible to say Symptom A was caused by Compound B, etc.

2) Plastics are loaded with endocrine disrupting compounds. We've struggled with this problem for some samples we tried to have analyzed for estrogens. All of our samples including blanks came back extremely high and we traced it back to the plastic bottle the ethanol was stored in and the rubber tubing (same as in siphoning for homebrewing) that we used.

3) Endocrine disruption is much more dangerous for developing infants and children, so the people that would be most affected (kids and pregnant women) shouldn't really be drinking anyway. For grown men not interested in reproduction the effects will probably be almost nil, except these compounds are sometimes linked to cancer.

4) The argument that most of our food is already in plastic so it must be safe is ridiculous. Endocrine disruption is a relatively young field, and regulation is extremely slow. My house still has lead paint, does that mean it is safe?

If people are interested, I have access to many journals and can find specific articles.

Thank you for a sane, informative post.

 

[AnOldUR]

I just drank another beer that was fermented in plastic? What are my chances now? Will my boobs get bigger?

I'll be needing to do a before and several follow up inspections. There will be spreadsheets, charts and graphs to show that it's all in the name of science.

 

[ACbrewer]

2) Plastics are loaded with endocrine disrupting compounds. We've struggled with this problem for some samples we tried to have analyzed for estrogens. All of our samples including blanks came back extremely high and we traced it back to the plastic bottle the ethanol was stored in and the rubber tubing (same as in siphoning for homebrewing) that we used.

This is a main one for me. I read in Newsweek in the mid 90's that fish and amphibians in a lot of areas were having a sex imbalance, to many females, not enough men The implication was that there were chemicals in the water causing this.

I can't help but think that experiments are tainted before they get into the testing, and our homebrew certainly is if it is in the drinking water (same water those fish and amphibians swim in).

 

[PhelanKA7]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've done a significant amount of study in the field of endocrine disruption.

1) Endocrine disruption is a real thing. However, like carcinogens, it is very rarely directly traceable. It is almost impossible to say Symptom A was caused by Compound B, etc.

2) Plastics are loaded with endocrine disrupting compounds. We've struggled with this problem for some samples we tried to have analyzed for estrogens. All of our samples including blanks came back extremely high and we traced it back to the plastic bottle the ethanol was stored in and the rubber tubing (same as in siphoning for homebrewing) that we used.

3) Endocrine disruption is much more dangerous for developing infants and children, so the people that would be most affected (kids and pregnant women) shouldn't really be drinking anyway. For grown men not interested in reproduction the effects will probably be almost nil, except these compounds are sometimes linked to cancer.

4) The argument that most of our food is already in plastic so it must be safe is ridiculous. Endocrine disruption is a relatively young field, and regulation is extremely slow. My house still has lead paint, does that mean it is safe?

If people are interested, I have access to many journals and can find specific articles.

You seem to know something about all of this.. Is the vehicle for all of these studies ethanol related or is it everything stored in plastic buckets? I pickle a lot of stuff from my garden in Ale Pails.

 

[Bumbler]

Every time I handle a plastic bucket I wear these.

Problem solved.

 

[dlaramie08]

WARNING: too much information without enough knowledge is more dangerous.

 

[millsware]

You seem to know something about all of this.. Is the vehicle for all of these studies ethanol related or is it everything stored in plastic buckets? I pickle a lot of stuff from my garden in Ale Pails.

Good question, in our specific case the compound we were studying was ethinyl estradiol which is a chemically modified version of estrogen used in birth control. It has very low solubility in water, so we make our initial solutions in ethanol, then dilute into water for our studies. Ethanol is a much better solvent for endocrine disrupting compounds than water. However this was 100% ethanol, not the 5% that is in most beer.

Thhe samples that were contaminated from tubing only had water run through them.

If you use vinegar for pickling, it would be better than water, but not as good as ethanol as an organic solvent. How long are they in there?

 

[millsware]

I've considered sending some of my homebrew samples to our collaborators to test for estrogenicity, but would feel bad because of the cost and effort involved. I will do some literature review to see if anyone else has done a similar study.

 

[Denny]

I've considered sending some of my homebrew samples to our collaborators to test for estrogenicity, but would feel bad because of the cost and effort involved. I will do some literature review to see if anyone else has done a similar study.

Thanks...looking forward to whatever you find.

 

[PhelanKA7]

Good question, in our specific case the compound we were studying was ethinyl estradiol which is a chemically modified version of estrogen used in birth control. It has very low solubility in water, so we make our initial solutions in ethanol, then dilute into water for our studies. Ethanol is a much better solvent for endocrine disrupting compounds than water. However this was 100% ethanol, not the 5% that is in most beer.

Thhe samples that were contaminated from tubing only had water run through them.

If you use vinegar for pickling, it would be better than water, but not as good as ethanol as an organic solvent. How long are they in there?

Months. I will generally make my brine at the onset of harvest, mid summer, and will pickle my selected produce for a couple of weeks. Then it usually takes me and my family a few months to go through it all up until the middle of winter.

And I usually use white vinegar for pickling although I have used homemade malt vinegar from leftover beer rackings in the past.

 

[BobbiLynn]

I drank yet another beer brewed in plastic and my boobs are now about to bust their seams. Help!! I brewed in plastic and now I have an estrogen overload!!!

 

[weirdboy]

Months. I will generally make my brine at the onset of harvest, mid summer, and will pickle my selected produce for a couple of weeks. Then it usually takes me and my family a few months to go through it all up until the middle of winter.

And I usually use white vinegar for pickling although I have used homemade malt vinegar from leftover beer rackings in the past.

I don't know about yours, but my white vinegar already comes in an HDPE container from the store. I don't think glass vs plastic is going to make much difference for the pickles.

 

[DrunkleJon]

My house still has lead paint, does that mean it is safe?

I know it was only used as a example but yes. So long as the paint is still on the walls it is safe. Like asbestos, the danger comes when it flakes off or is in dust form and is eaten/inhaled. I know I am being pendantic and will quit nitpicking now.

 

[millsware]

I know it was only used as a example but yes. So long as the paint is still on the walls it is safe. Like asbestos, the danger comes when it flakes off or is in dust form and is eaten/inhaled. I know I am being pendantic and will quit nitpicking now.

This is true, however in my house, like most others in Pittsburgh, that first coat of paint was put on about 80 years ago. I have several spots that are flaking right now and have already done one major remediation.

To tie back to the original point, government inaction is not the same thing as assurance of safety. Pediatricians had been reporting on the dangers of lead paint in houses and on toys since the early 1900's. Lead paint was not made illegal until the 70's, and could still be found in gas until the early 90's.

 

[BobbiLynn]

When I was a baby, I chewed all the lead paint off my crib.

 

[Puddlethumper]

To tie back to the original point, government inaction is not the same thing as assurance of safety. Pediatricians had been reporting on the dangers of lead paint in houses and on toys since the early 1900's. Lead paint was not made illegal until the 70's, and could still be found in gas until the early 90's.

What you are saying is absolutely true. However we cannot equate government's inaction prior to the 1980's with the overwhelming government involvement of today. Nor should we ignore the difference brought on by increased litigation related to product safety since the 1970's. Manufacturers today simply do not operate in a vacuum.

I agree that it is possible that something might slip by all of the watchdogs. But as I have watched these flareups make the news I've learned that they are more often based on the fact that something harmful was found "in detectable amounts" where they didn't think it was before. However the root cause here is improvements in the ability to detect substances. With the huge leaps in science we can find parts per billion now when we could only find parts per million a few years ago.

The question I have to ask is, "Sure, now they can detect the presence of something in my food/utensils/air/whatever, but was it found in an amount that might be harmful?"

Dosage determines if something is going to be harmful. To illustrate the point, oxalic acid is one of the deadliest poisons known. We've known about how harmful it is for 250 years. But with improved ability to detect these substances it suddenly started showing up in some foods. Especially dark green leafy vegetables. It was a big concern until they figured out that it has been there all along. Spinach, for example, produces oxalic acid and stores it in its leaves as a natural insecticide. Is it there in amounts that are likely to be harmful to humans? Absolutely not. Should we all panic and stop eating spinach? I like spinach and will continue to enjoy it, but it is your choice.