That's actually true. I was so focused on the fact that I am planning to go full volume biab, without sparging, that I did not see this possibility.
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Warm Fermented Lager Thread
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You just need a second kettle (or large bucket I suppose). I mashed the first beer in a keggle with a ball valve, drained the wort to an 8 gallon kettle to boil the first beer, then added about 6 gallons of water to the grain in the keggle for the second runnings, and boiled after the first was done. If I had it to do over, I would probably pull the bag from the first kettle, and put it and the water in the second while I boiled the first. It's a lot more work than one batch, but less than two.
Manufacturedevolution
Cooper
Finally tasted the Dopplebock today. It's yummy. It's been lagering in the keg for 2 weeks. Still surprised how clean this yeast is at ale temps. I'll definitely be doing more warm lager ferments in the future!
Been drinking a lot of my latest batch this weekend, too much yesterday while brewing up a batch of American strong. Very potent, but also deceptively smooth. No fusels, nothing off, and very refreshing. Absolutely amazed that a good lager can be brewed at ale temps. Loving this thread, hope it helps others hesitating about brewing a lager.
My Juniper Rye Bock turned out great, and there is no off flavors, it sat on the yeast for almost a month at 70-75. Just put it into the keg to lager, but the hydro sample tasted awesome. 
OP
OP
applescrap
Be the ball!
Finally kicked my bock, which was pretty clear for the most part. And now get to rack the 10 gallons of golden promise pilsner. I think it's been sitting on the yeast for over 3 weeks and if it was cold crash and fined right now I bet it would be crystal clear. But since I'm lazy and don't care I'm going to Rack it and try to keep out of the yeast.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
My girlfriend's father makes a citra pilsener commercially. I think he does it for a reason
Beer666
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Today i kegged/bottled my citra/ el dorado lager. Brewed 3 weeks ago its was cold crashed at 0c for a day then fined with gelatin for 2 more days. The mj54 yeast cleans up very fast. I put another pilsner on the yeast cake.
I was most impressed with the sample i had, hopefully will be carbed up by tomorrow. No off flavours from the warm fermentation.
I was most impressed with the sample i had, hopefully will be carbed up by tomorrow. No off flavours from the warm fermentation.
Exactly how I experienced this yeast as well.
Going to brew another batch tomorrow, this one will be a bit different since I'm low on base malt. I've got 6.5lbs of two row, 4lbs of pilsner, and will add a pound of light DME at 10 minutes to end of boil to make up for lack of grain. I know the grain I have should be fine, but the three I've done so far have been about 6.5% and I like it there. Need to get to a point where I've got this fermenting constantly because it's better every time. Will be the second use of the S-23 that did so well, I do like 34/70 but the S-23 did just fine.
Beer666
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Brewed 13th June. Citra and el Dorado IPL. The fastest clearing lager (with the least cold crashing) i have made so far. Dry hopping did not seem to affect clarity what so ever. The latest one ended up fermenting in the mid twenties and got up to 27.3c last night at the end of fermentation. I was a bit worried to be honest and opened the fv to have a sample and possibly crop some yeast. There was no krausen left after 3 days and it had finished fermenting. No detectable off flavours. Extremely happy i can continue brewing lagers in the summer now.
The wyeast bohemian starter i have is still cloudy despite being in the fridge months yet the mj54 is crystal clear after a few days.
The wyeast bohemian starter i have is still cloudy despite being in the fridge months yet the mj54 is crystal clear after a few days.
How strong is it?
Beer666
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5% 1048 to 1010.
Manufacturedevolution
Cooper
Brewed my house amber ale today and decided to pitch a 34/70 slurry to switch it up. I'm pretty confident it'll turn out well.
iahebert
Well-Known Member
I've been following this thread a bit, and have been VERY interested in a warm ferment lager. I finally bit the bullet and brewed one yesterday.
3 gallon batch,
90% Pils
10% vienna
1oz Tett @ Boil
.43oz Hallertau @ 10min (it's what i had in the freezer)
34/70
Cooled to 55 or so, pitched at 5pm last night, and let free rise to 66 in my fermentation fridge.
It looks like high Krausen already hit, the top of my carboy was a foamy mess. I'm excited to see the results. I've been scared to try a warm lager, but i'm feeling pretty good now. Will post updates as they come.
3 gallon batch,
90% Pils
10% vienna
1oz Tett @ Boil
.43oz Hallertau @ 10min (it's what i had in the freezer)
34/70
Cooled to 55 or so, pitched at 5pm last night, and let free rise to 66 in my fermentation fridge.
It looks like high Krausen already hit, the top of my carboy was a foamy mess. I'm excited to see the results. I've been scared to try a warm lager, but i'm feeling pretty good now. Will post updates as they come.
ramjam
Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalts
did an export lager a few weeks ago used saflager 34/70 fermented at +\- 65 just started drinking it, turned out fantastic!
You will be amazed, trust me. My first one used the same hops you've got and they give a great flavor. 34/70 is a beast and will do just fine at that temp. If you have the ability to cold crash it should drop out perfectly clear. Looking forward to hearing your results.
I'm sure this has already been covered (I'm too lazy to read the whole thread again) but how important is the cold crashing step?
What if I pitch 34/70 kinda cool (low 60's), let it free-rise in my basement which is in the low 70's, then bottle in a couple of weeks when it seems done? Just like I might do with ale yeast.
What if I pitch 34/70 kinda cool (low 60's), let it free-rise in my basement which is in the low 70's, then bottle in a couple of weeks when it seems done? Just like I might do with ale yeast.
Manufacturedevolution
Cooper
That's what I have done. I cooled to ~64 and pitch. It ferments at the ambient temperature in my house which is ~72. The two I've tasted so far have had no off flavor or esters. Very clean. Surprisingly. The smaller beer went 2 weeks and the bigger one for 3. They have benefited from some lager time in the keg for sure. I don't cold crash.
iahebert
Well-Known Member
Infact I do! I'm cold crashing it now ~34 for the week, then bottle this weekend. It'll be nice to have something crisp for these hot freakin summer days we're having.
SmokinBrews
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I brewed a schwarzbier (partial mash) this weekend. I used Munich malt, Vienna malt, crystal 120, black patent malt and DME. I used Perle and tettnang hops. Pitched with Saflager 34/70 at 66 degrees using my brew jacket fermentation controller to keep it at 66.
Nailed the mash temps and SG. Had very active fermentation at 12 hours and has been going steady since Friday. I am really excited about this. I plan on crashing and fining with gelatin in about 10 days or so. Will post back on my experience.
Nailed the mash temps and SG. Had very active fermentation at 12 hours and has been going steady since Friday. I am really excited about this. I plan on crashing and fining with gelatin in about 10 days or so. Will post back on my experience.
ramjam
Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalts
i am planning on doing a mosaic pilsner this weekend and had a couple of packs of saflager s-23, i have never used this yeast before, does it do good at 65?
This will probably a good beer but a Schwarzbier usually doesn't contain any Crystal malts. As a rule of thumb you can say that basically no traditional German style contains any Crystal malt.
I think temperature swings are not desirable. Therefore I would pitch at fermentation temperature and try to keep it as stable as possible.
Just tapped my latest one. Grain bill standard two row & pilsner (80/20) but I kinda went weird with the hops. Bittered with 1oz Cascade and did a 30 minute addition of 1oz Chinook. Beer is beautiful, carbed up perfectly, smells great, but here's the weird part....the aftertaste is like quinine. Not overpowering, but it's not your run of the mill beer "bitterness" that we all know. It lingers for a while. I've got a pretty full pipeline at the moment so I'll let the husband taste it, then take it off tap for a few weeks to see if some extended lagering time will help it settle down. Weird.
I will say that since I found this thread and started brewing "warm" lagers, I've only had one turn out poopy and it was probably the yeast (fruity beyond belief, like someone dropped underripe strawberries in the beer) and I drank about 1/3 of that keg before I gave up on it. Next one I do next month will use some of the FREE pound of Crystal hops I got from Hops Direct, just because I ordered 4lbs last month. Big surprise in the mail yesterday, husband was all suspicious that I was buying brew stuff again until he saw the nice "thank you for ordering with us" card.
I will say that since I found this thread and started brewing "warm" lagers, I've only had one turn out poopy and it was probably the yeast (fruity beyond belief, like someone dropped underripe strawberries in the beer) and I drank about 1/3 of that keg before I gave up on it. Next one I do next month will use some of the FREE pound of Crystal hops I got from Hops Direct, just because I ordered 4lbs last month. Big surprise in the mail yesterday, husband was all suspicious that I was buying brew stuff again until he saw the nice "thank you for ordering with us" card.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
It's not a mistake, it's a New England Lager...
If I liked strawberries I would have saved it...but I don't. Yes I'm weird that way.
I used S-23 in my last two (fresh the first time, slurry the second) and they both fermented clean although didn't get down below 1.020. I've got a weird bitter aftertaste in the second one, but it's pretty young yet and is going to get some extended lager time in the keg. I think if you use both packs you should be safe.
ramjam
Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalts
thanks, i’m going to give it a try and i will post the results.
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I tried a 'classic american pilsner' last night I brewed in first week in June. 34/70 with fermentation temps in high 60'sF. It came out pretty clear, ABV 6.0, good flavor, finish gravity 1.008.
I hear 34/70 is more heat tolerant than S-23, but have not experimented with that myself.
I hear 34/70 is more heat tolerant than S-23, but have not experimented with that myself.
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OP
applescrap
Be the ball!
Just got back after being gone for a couple weeks and pulled a pint of the 10 gallons of the citra pilsner and the 34/70 still hasnt flocced on its own. Well i guess its only six weeks now, but that is a long time for me. If i was home I would have already polished off 5 gallons i bet. That's why I would like to get some more corny kegs I guess so I can let some age and some drink. I want to say it's got much better over the last two weeks but I want to wait and taste it more to make sure it's not just my impression. That being said I do think it's gotten better. I am hoping that I'm just pulling the last of any kind of yeast off the bottom. If not it gives you an idea how die-hard this yeast is. Any kind of acetaldehyde which I think is responsible for green flavors in drinking these two young, is surely gone. As always there are no pronounced esters or off flavors of any kind related to the ferment in my opinion.
3470 can be a pain, that's why I switched to mj California lager.
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34/70 flocks very well at the manufacture's rated temp (53-59F), in my experiance. The lager I mentioned above s not as clear as the very clear lagers I made earlier in season at lower temps, of course it is younger too.
Perhaps that is a limitation on that yeast. Is there a dry version of "mj"? (whatever that is)
I switch to brewing with S-05 (ale) yeast in the warmer months when cellar is warmer, did that last lager in June as an experiment.
Perhaps that is a limitation on that yeast. Is there a dry version of "mj"? (whatever that is)
I switch to brewing with S-05 (ale) yeast in the warmer months when cellar is warmer, did that last lager in June as an experiment.
TANSTAAFB
Well-Known Member
Gelatin is your friend!
TANSTAAFB
Well-Known Member
It looks like the 34/70 I saved is not viable--tossed into starter wort 24 hours ago and I'm getting nada. My LHBS only carries s23 dry and only White Labs liquid. I'm not a fan of 23 so what White Labs strain would y'all recommend? Brewing up Denny's First Alt at the club group brew today
catdaddy66
Well-Known Member
S-23 is very good I hear, but the strains I've had the most success with have been wlp800 and wlp810.
Dland, MJ stands for Mangrove Jack, a yeast brand that has been getting more popular in the last 8-10 years. I haven't tried any of theirs yet.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Well WLP830 is supposedly a liquid version of 34/70, but people here seem to prefer WLP800 Pilsner (actually an ale yeast despite supposedly coming from Urquell) and Mangrove Jack M54 Californian Lager, which is presumably not dissimilar to WLP810 San Francisco Lager (presumably Anchor Steam yeast). @Dland - all Mangrove Jack yeasts are dry...
If you're doing an Alt then WLP036 Dusseldorf??
Presumably Wyeast 1450 would be most appropriate for one of Denny's recipes...?
TANSTAAFB
Well-Known Member
I looked at 036 and while I am brewing Denny's recipe and I am making an Altbier, I don't like sweet beers. And I'd use 1450 in a heartbeat if it was an option! 810 might be perfect. I'm getting a few tiny bubbles in my starter so maybe it just needed a little more time
