Vorlauf getting clogged with brew bag

[Jbrew]

I recently purchased some used equipment from another brewer to replace my kettle. Along with the kettle he sold me I also got a 10 gallon cooler, brew bag for the cooler, CFC, burner, tank, and a fermonster.
I usually do BIAB, but I was excited to try using the mash tun. I was doing a big wave clone which i have done about 4 times. This is my first time using the mash tun though.
I heated my strike water and begin my mash, temps were right on and let it go for an hour. Then I went to vorlauf using one of the tan 12v pumps, with a ball valve throttling out flow. Right away it clogged. I lifted the bag and it began flowing again, but clogged again soon there after. I don't know if the bag was clogging the flow, or the actual grains. In any case I ended up pulling the bag off the bottom and using the lid to hold bag from sliding back down to the bottom. I then left it like this and did a 2 batch sparge with 180 degree water to reach my final volume. I came up low on my pre boil gravity. I have been reading about how to vorlauf, and sparging, and im not sure if the pump caused my problem, the bag, if I tried to vorlauf to quickly, or if this is just all normal with a brew bag in a mash tun.
Thanks guys for any help.

 

[Yooper]

I use a bag to line my MLT- but I do use a false bottom as well. The false bottom holds the bag up, so that the flow isn't impeded to the pump. That could be your issue- the bag with the grain simply over the drain.

 

[shallywag]

I use a bag in my mash tun and have to keep it elevated off the spout so it can drain or it will get sucked into the valve. I use a bungee cord wrapped around the cooler and bag and that with the lid keeps it elevated.

 

[Jbrew]

Its good to hear that its necessary to raise the bag a bit. I thought I was doing something wrong. Maybe ill add a false bottom at some point. Thanks for the input.

 

[jimmayhugh]

I got a trivet included with the 25gal stainless stock pot that I converted into a bottom-drain mash tun. It was about an inch high, so I decided to use it along with a custom-made brew bag.

About halfway through a flaked rye-heavy mash I noticed that my RIMS-recirculation had slowed considerably. I stirred the mash a bit, re-adjusted the bag, and everything seemed ok.

After mashout, I removed the spent grain, and when I got to the trivet, I found that the legs of the trivet had collapsed completely, allowing the bag to get sucked into the drain.

I'm now working on reinforcing the trivet to prevent a further occurrence.

 

[UncleAvis]

Has anyone tried using a typical ss toilet supply braid with biab in cooler to help this issue? I've done a few biab in my kettle, but prefer the braid in a cooler with batch sparging. Been thinking of adding the bag to the cooler for easier clean up.

 

[shallywag]

I don't usually have a problem while the bag is raised. It does make for an easier cleanup!

 

[jalc6927]

False bottom or something similar you want the grain to be in all of the water if possible

 

[shallywag]

Mine is only raised while draining the wort, otherwise it sits in water the whole time.

 

[UncleAvis]

Mine is only raised while draining the wort, otherwise it sits in water the whole time.

Do you still vorlauf or does your bag filter well enough there is no need?

 

[EtchyLives]

My bag jams up my valve as well. I bought a ratcheting pulley system to raise the bag while draining the tun and it works great. I usually mash, raise the bag and drain, then lower the bag to batch sparge, wait a few minutes and raise the bag to drain.

The bag mesh is fine enough that I don't have to vorlauf - crystal clear wort as soon as I open the valve. I'm a huge fan of Mash In A Bag (MIAB).

 

[Jbrew]

Has anyone tried using a typical ss toilet supply braid with biab in cooler to help this issue? I've done a few biab in my kettle, but prefer the braid in a cooler with batch sparging. Been thinking of adding the bag to the cooler for easier clean up.

I was thinking of this too, I don't have a braid, but I do have a boil screen, and considered putting that in the mash tun, the only thing that has me a bit hesitant, is the screen has some rough edges, worried it was gonna catch and pull the bag.

 

[RM-MN]

I recently purchased some used equipment from another brewer to replace my kettle. Along with the kettle he sold me I also got a 10 gallon cooler, brew bag for the cooler, CFC, burner, tank, and a fermonster.
I usually do BIAB, but I was excited to try using the mash tun. I was doing a big wave clone which i have done about 4 times. This is my first time using the mash tun though.
I heated my strike water and begin my mash, temps were right on and let it go for an hour. Then I went to vorlauf using one of the tan 12v pumps, with a ball valve throttling out flow. Right away it clogged. I lifted the bag and it began flowing again, but clogged again soon there after. I don't know if the bag was clogging the flow, or the actual grains. In any case I ended up pulling the bag off the bottom and using the lid to hold bag from sliding back down to the bottom. I then left it like this and did a 2 batch sparge with 180 degree water to reach my final volume. I came up low on my pre boil gravity. I have been reading about how to vorlauf, and sparging, and im not sure if the pump caused my problem, the bag, if I tried to vorlauf to quickly, or if this is just all normal with a brew bag in a mash tun.
Thanks guys for any help.

The original purpose of the vorlauf was to catch the grain particles and husks that would invariably get into the first bit of wort so they could be returned to the mash tun. One the grain bed was set it formed a filter and no more husks would come through. With the bag holding the grain and forming the filter, there is no need to vorlauf because the bag catches them. Skip the vorlauf, it isn't really doing anything for you.

 

[Jtk78]

I use a bag in 2 different cooler mash tuns. I agree with RM-MN in that no vorlauf is needed. If you do add a braid (one of my coolers has it, one does not) I'd recommend a water heater braid instead of a toilet one. Much less likely to collapse. My brew club had a toilet braid collapse and was a pain to get the mash and sparge completed. I have to move the bag around a bit on either tun I have, and get pretty similar efficiencies, so I don't think it really helps much to have the braid in there.

 

[Jbrew]

So the vorlauf is not needed then. I knew the vorlauf was to clear the first runnings, but I was under the assumption that it helped clear the fine particles that could get thru the bag as well.
Another side question, when sparging, do I run off my mash volume first? Or do I leave it and then add my mash out water to it?

 

[Jtk78]

Are you batch sparging vs fly sparging? No need for a mash out if batch sparging (what most of us do). Take your first runnings, mash water out. Then see how much water you need to get to pre boil volume. I split the difference and do two sparges.

Example:
Looking for 7gal pre-boil
Get 3 gallons of first runnings
Add 2 gallons to mash tun
Stir and drain
Add 2 gallons to mash tun
Stir and drain

When batch sparging, temp of water doesn't matter much, some sparge with cold water. I heat mine during the mash and usually sparge in the 170F range. I also fire up my burner right after the first runnings are in the kettle to save time.

 

[Jbrew]

I do batch sparge. I did almost the volumes you stated. I mashed in with 13.5qts water for 9 lbs of grain(1.5qts/lb), figuring grain absorption would use 4.5 qts, leaving me with 9qts. I used the pump to vorlauf, then ran the runnings into my kettle, and came up right on with about 9 qts. Then began my sparge split into two equal volumes of 2.5 gallons. My target pre boil volume was 29 qts. I like to stretch my beers to about 6 gallons post boil to account for fermenter loss, and I like to try and bottle a 6 pack after kegging. Reason I asked whether I can leave the first runnings in the mash and begin my sparge, was just so I wouldnt have to pull out a 3rd pot to sparge from.
So another question now, what's the difference between mash out and sparging? Mashing out is raising the temp, correct? So what temp water should I be sparging with then?

EDIT: missed the end of your post, so sparge water temp doesnt matter at all?

Thanks again everyone

 

[Jtk78]

My understanding is mash out and sparge water temp is really only critical when fly sparging, which may take an hour or longer if done correctly. A mash out is not needed and sparge temp is not critical when batch sparging.

Mash out is raising the temperature of the grain bed prior to sparging. Because I learned it wasn't necessary for batch sparging, I've never spent a lot of time researching why or how it's done.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

When fly sparging, you mash out to denature the enzymes. With a batch sparge, the time from taking first runnings to completing the sparge and raising the temp in the kettle is short enough that it's not necessary.

You can batch sparge at any temp water, but I've read that hot water keeps the wort less viscous and can aid in lauter efficiency. I sparge with 170 degree water (+/- 5).

 

[FunkedOut]

So the vorlauf is not needed then. I knew the vorlauf was to clear the first runnings, but I was under the assumption that it helped clear the fine particles that could get thru the bag as well....

I am under this impression as well.
I currently BIAB with no vorlauf, no sparge.
I thought that a vorlauf would help clear the wort of the tiny stuff.
For me it all settles in boil kettle when I let it sit after whirlpool. Not really a problem.
But I’ve wondered if this stuff in the boil can change the flavor. I love the tastes of my beers, so again, not really a problem.
I’m just addicted to learning.

 

[Jbrew]

Well my new setup allows me to whirlpool now. So the first time, 2 weeks ago, I whirlpooled, and my beer has never been so clear going into the fermenter. Well see how this beer comes out, but so far it has smelled the best too in the primary, out of all my brews this far.