vinegar smell from safekeeping, two days into fermenting?

[slohiker]

Hi all, New to the forums, read a ton, making my second cider batch following the apfelwein recipe. My first cider was a gallon batch, turned out great. Wanted to make a bit more this time, and had an unused Mr. Beer kit, thought, I could brew a few more gallons this time, and followed the apfelwein recipe pretty closely.
I started the batch two days ago, and today the room where I left the Mr.Beer keg/carboy smelt terrible... like a couple gallons of vinegar had been spoiled all over the place.
Did I ruin the batch?
My couple theories are a) the Mr.Beer keg lets in air, not a proper airlock, causing wild yeast to enter the batch. B) the Mr. Beer kit exposes the batch to too much oxygen, due to the surface area of the batch, which is quite broad. C) apfelwein just smells like vinegar while fermenting.

Thoughts? If it saves the batch or is necessary, I'd gladly pick up a three gallon carboy and add a gallon of juice and some more dextrose with a proper airlock. Thanks all!
-Kevin
Edit- (Can't edit the message, it's supposed to read apfelwein instead of safekeeping. Oh well)

 

[insanim8er]

Vinegar is a bad sign. Is it not sulfur/rotten egg smelling? Ciders get the "rhino farts" sometimes. It smells awful. If that's the case it goes away. Generally it's a sign of not having enough yeast nutrient. But if it s vinegar, you may have a ton of salad dressing...

 

[slohiker]

Definitely vinegar smelling. Bummer, must have messed up with sanitation or the Mr.Beer top didn't work well as an airlock. Oh well. Off to my LHBS to get more stuff, I'd like to have a couple of gallons done by thanksgiving. Thanks for the help!

 

[insanim8er]

Definitely vinegar smelling. Bummer, must have messed up with sanitation or the Mr.Beer top didn't work well as an airlock. Oh well. Off to my LHBS to get more stuff, I'd like to have a couple of gallons done by thanksgiving. Thanks for the help!

Oh man if you want a drinkable cider by thanksgiving, do a graff. Apple juice cider takes a long time to condition. It wouldn't be at its prime by Thanksgiving.

Just do yourself a favor and get apple juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid (vitamin C) as this tends to make the graff very tart. Kirkland brand from Costco is what I get. It's 100% apple juice nothing else.

But in the mean time you can start a cider now for next thanksgiving.

 

[GrizzlyGremlin]

I dont think your batch is bad at all homie. You can leave the your cider out with NO lid while in the first days of fermentation. It wont turn to vinegar in just 3 days. Vinegar isnt like fermentation where you can produce 15% alc in 5 days. It takes time with a constant supply of oxygen. I will say that i have watched cider go through its stages and 3 days in it looks kind of greenish yellow and cloudy and smells bad. Give it time. Let it be. Fill up to your airlock. Let her go you are fine! Like yoda said, patience!!!

 

[insanim8er]

I dont think your batch is bad at all homie. You can leave the your cider out with NO lid while in the first days of fermentation. It wont turn to vinegar in just 3 days. Vinegar isnt like fermentation where you can produce 15% alc in 5 days. It takes time with a constant supply of oxygen. I will say that i have watched cider go through its stages and 3 days in it looks kind of greenish yellow and cloudy and smells bad. Give it time. Let it be. Fill up to your airlock. Let her go you are fine! Like yoda said, patience!!!

It doesn't take much time for enough vinegar to create a smell. But to convert a full 5 gallons yes it can take time. I'm pretty sure he has a bacterial infection, probably acetobacter.

Slohiker, Did you use sulfite or Camden pills to treat your juice 24 hrs in advance to pitching your yeast?

 

[slohiker]

Thank you all for the advice, wanted to reply to all your thoughts,
As far as possibly doing the Graff recipe, I haven't started trying any beer brewing, and won't get the chance to for a few weeks. I think the batch I made might make the thanksgiving cut off, it just won't be well carbonated. The batch I made may in fact be okay, did a taste test, and while the odor may still be sulfur or vinegar, it tastes totally fine... hopefully a good indicator that I'm on the right track. I'm letting it ferment out on the garage, and may still end up with something drinkable. I didn't use Camden tablets or any other additives as the initial Apple juice was store bought, pasteurized, and had ascorbic acid listed as an ingredient.
I decided I'd make a back up batch tonight... best case scenario, they both work out and I've got five gallons of later this fall.
Thanks you all for chiming in, it helps give me a ton more info as I get into this!

 

[insanim8er]

Thank you all for the advice, wanted to reply to all your thoughts,
As far as possibly doing the Graff recipe, I haven't started trying any beer brewing, and won't get the chance to for a few weeks. I think the batch I made might make the thanksgiving cut off, it just won't be well carbonated. The batch I made may in fact be okay, did a taste test, and while the odor may still be sulfur or vinegar, it tastes totally fine... hopefully a good indicator that I'm on the right track. I'm letting it ferment out on the garage, and may still end up with something drinkable. I didn't use Camden tablets or any other additives as the initial Apple juice was store bought, pasteurized, and had ascorbic acid listed as an ingredient.
I decided I'd make a back up batch tonight... best case scenario, they both work out and I've got five gallons of later this fall.
Thanks you all for chiming in, it helps give me a ton more info as I get into this!

It probably will be ok if you drink it quick. I still think it's infected. Especially if you didnt use use campden tabs. It doesn't take much for the human nose to detect vinegar. If you let it sit, I'm confident it will turn to vinegar.

It doesn't take much to be able to smell it, but it takes a long time for it to convert everything to vinegar.

If it's a sulfur smell it's the "rhino farts" that generally means there wasn't enough yeast nutrients. But it's a god awful smell that is more like rotten egg. If you ever get it, you'll know. And NEVER bottle when it smells. Let it bulk age and it will go away. If you bottle it, it might stay or take a really long time to go away.

About Ascorbic acid. It is nothing more than vitamine C. You can use juice with ascorbic acid in it. Generally the only ill effect is a tart tasting cider. However, always use campden tablets even if it's store bought juice. Crush the tabs, add your juice into the carboy put the crushed tabs in and let it sit 24 hrs then pitch the yeast.

As ascorbic acid is ok, potassium sorbate is not. It will keep your juice from fermenting. If you live near costco, I always recommend Kirkland apple juice. It's 100% pure apple juice not from concentrate and nothing else added to it.
It's $4/gal and the only store bought juice I'll use.

 

[slohiker]

Thanks! Bought the Kirkland brand for my second batch, haven't made it quite yet, I'll definitely use the Camden tablets this time. Again, thanks for all the support!